Would anyone care to offer an opinion on the best anchor roller for a Commander? Any tips on the attachment of said anchor to said boat would also be greatly appreciated.
I installed a Simpson Lawrence roller to hold my 25 lb CQR by the same company. There is Windline, that also makes a roller for the plow anchors, too. The SL roller is long enough so that two of the three 3/8" bolts mount aft of the "toerail." The forward bolt goes right through the toerail. The body of the roller sits directly on the toerail, and I built up a pad of epoxy/high strength additive behind the toerail for the rear of the body to rest on so it is in plane with the top surface of the toerail and the deck. I mounted on the port side of the stem fitting. My hawse pipe is to starboard. I had to move the port side chock aft of the roller and aft of the forward port post of the bow pulpit.
I used the same epoxy mix for a backing pad along with some 1/4" marine plywood pieces. I filled the toerail from below. Some large fender washers were used at each bolt.
If I can remember I'll take a picture of it this weekend.
On Sirocco I have a simple anchor roller,a Windline model AR-3.It is thru bolted with 3-3/8 inch bolts with a 1/4 inch aluminium backing plate.This is used only for anchoring not for storage.You need to decide if you want to store an anchor on it or just use it for anchoring and then go from there.
Thanks for the replies. I have a big Bruce anchor, and I can't see it hanging out on the bow pulpit neatly. So I'm looking for a way to store as well as guide the anchor when weighed (wayed?).
Sounds like Bogle has a similar set-up. I'd love to see pics. l'm looking at a windlass roller that may do the trick, but may be overkill.
Don't know if anybody's still rolling on this one. I have a few questions.
Is that really Glissando's nose? Looks GOOD. And I love that boot top!
But, (inexperience here) I find a 24" anchor fitting has only 12" of flat attachment to the front, and I tell myself the anchor is pulling downward on the fitting - and I'm assuming the chain is left in the channel and ended on a samson post or something immovable like a bulkhead - the forces then on the end of the fitting turn it potentially into a lever with the forces UP on the bolts in tension. Rather than in sheer, where the strength of bolts are at their best.
If you had your anchors over in the channel of that Bruce fitting with just the short length pierced into its nose,
Do you think the boat would have survived Isabel???
Now there is G's bowsprit with all the forces on the wood extension. My guess, without going to the 381 site, that there has to be some s.s. backing to that arrangement, right? With 3,4,5 tons and more bouncing on a tether of nylon and chain
multiplied by the weight of wind and water in a serious storm, I mean, I can't see how these short channels can survive intact and protect the boat if the boat where anchored out.
But this IS what is acceeptable, right??? Hard to fathom!
Well, I forgot to take a snapshot of my installation, but give me another weekend or two.
The Simpson Lawrence roller that I bought is a very heavy duty piece of stainless. I would estimate it to be 1/4" thick or better. It will pull out of my deck before it bends, in my estimation. In fact, it may take some fiberglass with it, and the stem fitting...
I should have a stainless backing plate, but I made do with high-strength epoxy and plywood. I can always add it when I someday retire and have time to work on the boat (in twenty years ;-)
My anchor platform, as seen above, features a 3/8" thick SS plate for reinforcement. The plate, which is 24" long, extends the full overhang forward of the bow (you can see it in the photo) and extends aft onto the deck, where the platform is bolted through the deck and heavily backed.
Two of the six bolts securing the platform (the entire platform is 42" long) pass through the SS plate. The plate is epoxied to the bottom side of the wooden platform, so the wood is mostly cosmetic. When deployed, the anchor line runs aft to an 8" sampson post secured to the deck. Assuming high winds, but no significant wave action, the forces on all bolts (sampson post, anchor platform, and rollers) would remain in shear, not tension. Both rollers installed are as heavy-duty as they come, not that that by any means they are infalliable. (Far from it)
I would feel comfortable anchored out with this rig in any situation as long as it was a protected harbor with little or no fetch. It's the waves that kill an anchored boat during a storm, not the wind pressure. Violent motion at the bow creates incredible forces on any mooring setup. That said, I'd worry first about the chafe from such motion, then worry about damaging the rollers or platform. Frankly, if it got that bad, I don't believe there's much anyone could do except hope for the best. I'd prefer to take precautionary steps well in advance to avoid the possibility in the first place. That's the best insurance.
I feel comfortable in the strength of the rollers and the platform to withstand the wind pressures that might be encountered. The key is to ensure that your safe harbor is well protected from sea development. My intended hurricane hole here in Maine (unneeded so far, thankfully) is protected from all directions and is small enough to prevent damaging sea development in any wind.
I would not ever put 100% faith in anchor rollers or platforms on any boat, no matter what. The potential for failure is real, and is well documented in known failures. I believe this particular platform is as good as any, but have no disillusions about its ultimate strength or ability to survive severe wave conditions. But I feel as good about it as I ever could.
Well, I was bidding on a perfect Windline anchor roller on eBay, only to have it sniped out from under me. From what I've seen here, the Windline BRM is the right direction to go.
You've gotta love Glissando's tenacity. Anchor platform break? Fine, how about with a 3/8" stainless steel plate! (I'm also drooling over that roller furling set up).
Thanks for your thoughtful and complete post and the look at your elegant anchoring solution. With a 42" fetch on the platform and the number of thru bolts I agree that the bolts are in sheer - because you have virtually eliminated any LEVER action (I see) in common practice - where the over hanging proprietary fitting is merely bolted on.
338 had an 11" Windline (the fittings are very substantial and well designed in thenselves) bolted to the toerail. The toerail on 338 is molded at about 3/16" and the backing material was a funky piece of plywood - probably because it is difficult to work up in this area inside. IMCO, the installation looked dangerous.
Just as the brakes on a car is as important as the engine, if not more, so is the anchoring system on the boat - if not more so. Maybe Windline makes extensions for their anchor rollers. Or has longer versions. IMCO the deck bolts holding the fitting should be spread further apart, further inboard, and the whole triangle in the forepeak that the toerails end as, in the Ariel, should be filled as a load spreading backing for the fitting. One inch thick, minimum.
381's beefy bow anchoring design ought to be kept in mind when upgrading the Ariel.
What a story! Marty and Mirador. Just flashed thru the story on the way to the sack, hey, too bad the camera got wet. Great seamanship!
That broken weld could have been foretold methinks, It's going to take some kind of genius to melt a thick plate (1/4") onto a thin pipe (wall less than 1/8" ?) Get the bead too hot and you blow into the tube. I bet the tube wasn't melted hardly at all, just had a nice looking bead. Could have been textbook corrosion, too. The sprit survived tho! THAT'S interesting. I've "seen" 338 with a bent tube bowsprit. Gotta go back and see how they fix the design.
As I continue to work forward on the bow, after the core repair on the starboard side, my eyes have turned to the anchor roller.
I have a 25# CQR and a ss roller that I plan to hang. My current plan is to remove the stbd chock, and run the roller over the toe rail there. I want to make a mounting base of oak, covered in epoxy/glass and through bolt to a backing plate.
I really want the roller, but don't want it to be the weak link in the anchoring system.
He made the roller as heavy as he could, then made a heavy plate where his bobstay attached with an extra hole for a snubber to attach. This solution seems like it would work well to transfer the load off of the roller, and would give the added bonus of dropping your attachment point lower to increase the scope.
Has anyone done this on an Ariel? Does anyone see a drawback to this?
My purpose in life is to create controversy.
(Along with an endless Ariel remodel.)
ANCHORING -
I think the idea is to use the anchor rollers on a sprit to drop or retrieve the anchor. Great for singlehanding from the cockpit.
But the rode that comes from the mooring bit or sampson post should be led over chocks on the rail. I think the system should allow for the rode to be removed from the rollers to chocks ON THE BOAT. The chocks should be large enough to allow for three layer chaffing protection. (Mirador seems to have had that covered.) The chocks should be ones designed without any sharp edges. The lead over the edge of the boat should be as smooth as can be made.
Simply, don't anchor with the rode in the rollers!
Some cruisers advocate anchoring in heavy weather to a bridle using an oversize eye on the stem near the waterline. There is said to be less yanking and surging off a position closer to the water.
Am I correct in thinking that this way of anchoring is not just ideal
but the way it should actually be done???
(Mirador SAILING off the beach is truly a miracle! One lucky boat.)
Anchor roller
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