Sails - Paint, dye, bleach

[French]

Greetings...

Has one heard of dying, bleaching or painting a sail.?

I got this jib sail, which is in pretty good shape except for the rust spots...
Being the Artist, I thought, Hmmmm maybe I can dye this puppy , or do some creative air brushing or hand paint with a canvas type art paint or at the least bleach to clean this up.

Anyone seen , heard, thought of, any sails that have had something of that sorts done?

[marymandara]

there is a fellow on my engineless sailing group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/engineless_sailing) who did quite an artistic job on the sails for his yawl-converted Santana 22, CORMORANT. There are a number of pics in the group photo albums.
best,
dave

[commanderpete]

The following is an excerpt from the North Sails website which talks about using bleach to remove mildew. It may work on rust stains. However, I tend to think the rust stains are permanent, but can be lightened. Most rust stain removers use different types of acid to remove rust stains from fiberglass, not something you want to use on a sail. I've tried lemon juice in the past, helped a little.




If mildew occurs...
Treat mildew at the earliest possible moment. If you do not, it can spread quickly. There is an excellent chance of getting mildew stains off when they are new, relatively small, and close to the surface. There is little chance once they have spread and set into the fibres.
Isolate mildew-infected sails, anchor lines, covers, and so forth, from clean sails. The quickest and surest way to spread mildew is to rub an existing growth against a receptive surface.
The single most popular mildew killer and remover is simple household bleach. This is also known as sodium hypochlorite, sold in the U.S. in 5.25% solution with water. This is potentially nasty stuff and manufacturers recommend diluting it quite a bit further before using. Tilex® and other "mildew removers" are mainly sodium hypochlorite in solutions of about 3%, which is still a pretty healthy dosage.
DO NOT use BLEACH (Sodium Hypochlorite) on KEVLAR® or NYLON, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!! This is one of the few known, proven solvents for these fibres. We have seen people poke their fingers easily through spinnakers rinsed in chlorine-treated (same as bleach) swimming pools. Of course, this means you should not clean KEVLAR® and nylon with Tilex® or other commercial mildew cleaners that contain sodium hypochlorite.
DO NOT EVER MIX BLEACH AND AMMONIA and stand around breathing the air. The result is phosgene gas which killed and disabled thousands in the First World War. This little home science experiment continues to kill and cripple people to this day.
For particularly stubborn, deep set stains, surface cleaning will not work. It is necessary to immerse the stain in a fungicide for 12 hours or more, to allow it to get in to where the stain is. It is not necessary to use a particularly high concentration, only to get the fungicide where the stain is. No amount of vigorous surface scrubbing will do what a good soak will do.
After washing with bleach, always rinse thoroughly with plenty of fresh water. Bleach that is not removed can cause long-term structural damage that is more harmful than the cosmetic damage caused by the mildew.
If the mildew stain does not come out after one good wash with the proper equipment and chemicals, give up. Experience shows that further washings/scourings/ treatments remove very little additional stain and cause a lot of other damage.
Scotchguard® and related water repellents do not have any properties that either kill or prevent the recurrence of mildew. They may be marginally effective at repelling some of the moisture and nutrients on which mildew feeds, and might make cleaning easier by holding the stains away from the fibres. There is not much evidence either way on this.
Dettol®, a commonly available household disinfectant, is the most powerful and effective fungicide and inhibitor you can use to prevent recurrence and spread of mildew. Various health and environmental agencies prohibit the use of stronger fungicides since the same thing that kills fungus has similar effects on higher life forms, as most of us would like to picture ourselves.
Anything you use on a sail to kill or remove mildew and stains, will wash or wear away in a relatively short time. This is directly analogous to anti-fouling bottom paints. North NorLam™ fabrics are treated with the most powerful commercial fungicide we can use without jeopardizing the health of employees and customers. It is100% effective in preventing mildew in laboratory conditions, and demonstrably less effective in the real world.

[French]

Marymandara: thanks for the link...There was only one pix of a painted sail so that must be it... So it can be done. Interesting site another good sailing source .

C'Pete: thanks for the tip, at least I KNOW NOT to use bleach.
I have this orange cleaner I got at the WM sail expo. The guy said it works on rust, but I've not tried it. I got it to take off the glue from the numbers insead of the acid base chemical remover.
I think I will try it on the rust and see, if not...I'll find a old piece of sail and see how it dyes and breakout my air brush and have some fun...

[Theis]

So how do you get blood off sails?

[Al Lorman]

From Ullman Sails, Ventura:

BLOOD - Soak the stained portion for 10-20 minutes in a solution of 10 parts water to 1 part bleach. Scrub and repeat if necessary. Rinse thoroughly.

[Theis]

For the reasons given, I'm trying to avoid bleach - anywhere except for my handkerchiefs. If bleach is the answer, then perhaps hydrogen peroxide, or just plain sun. Maybe those ae the answers. Thanks anyway.

[ebb]

haven't researched this ad nauseum but I think the Oxi Oxy etc products are versions of h. peroxide. Orange is associated also with this stuff (may be the name of a company)

I've surfed by that amphedimine driven huckster on the tube who sells an Oxi product. Turned off by its breathless bleaching energy. Anyone tried this stuff on mold? Or blud?

[commanderpete]

This is from the Sailrite website. I guess acid is what you need for rust.

There are a number of ways to clean sails. Some are more effective than others. Unfortunately, the most thorough methods also cause the most serious cloth breakdown which leads to greater stretch and, thus, a poorly setting sail. All mechanical methods fall into this category. Even large agitating tubs designed just for sails with carefully regulated water temperature will have the same effect on the sail as several weeks of hard use. And we definitely do not recommend using the machines at local Laundromats — they are never large enough and water temperature is not carefully controlled.


Most sailmakers recommend frequent rinsing with fresh water. If that is not sufficient, spread the sail on a smooth, clean surface and brush it lightly with a mild detergent solution or with a specially prepared cleaner such as “Sail-Kleen” or "Sail-Bath" from Davis. The latter is an enzyme detergent that can actually be used to soak away dirt and some stains.
Stains and spots can be removed as follows:


RUST. Soak the affected area in a 5% solution of oxalic acid dissolved in hot water. Follow this with a 2% solution of hydrochloric acid in warm water and, finally, rinse the spot well with clear water.


NUMBER ADHESIVE. Cleaner’s benzine used to be used here, but it is evidently rather dangerous and, as a result, very hard to obtain. Paint thinner and gasoline also work although they will leave an oil stain in some cases. My favorite is a proprietary product called GooGone that will not harm the fabric or stain it. It is available in most hardware stores and, of course, from Sailrite. We have also recently begun to stock "General Adhesive Remover" from 3M -- it works even better than GooGone. Do realize that two or three applications and some serious rubbing and scraping will be necessary no matter what you use.


OIL, TAR, VARNISH. Use trichloroethylene either by itself or in solution with a liquid detergent.


MILDEW. Soak the affected area in a 1% solution of chlorine (household bleach will do) and cold water. Vinegar also serves to control mildew if used rather frequently (it has limited use in correcting a problem that has gotten out of hand).


Whenever confronted with a serious stain, do not expect complete removal. Usually the best that can be expected is a moderation of the discoloration. After cleaning the sail, dry it completely. Mildew will not grow on modern synthetic sailcloth, but it can grow on the dirt that it accumulates if moisture is present. Although mildew will not harm the fabric, it will discolor or spot it.


Fold the sail and store it in a cool, dry place. The method of folding that you select is not very important, though try to keep folds to a minimum. There are several schools of thought regarding how this can best be done—choose whichever seems most convincing to you.

[commanderpete]

I haven't thought about painting the sails.

I wonder what color would go with my new boat?

[French]

I was thinking something like this...


oops, I'll try that again

[French]

ok, something like this...