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Thread: Boarding Ladders

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brooksville, FL
    Posts
    720
    Full and By

    Thanks for the compliment on the handrails. They did take some time to build and get right. I guess part of what I like about the process of restoring my commander is that it forces me to stretch my woodworking abilities in ways I have not previously worked.

    Your Jackline is a really good idea, and in a good location, especially on those days that are rougher than we anticipated. I will set one up and when things get harry I will use it. And on those days it would be good to have a second line that you could clip to and go all the way to the bow. It would be easy to set up on our commanders.

    For Destiny (my commander) I am deleting the life lines. I plan to leave the bow pulpit but am undecided on the stern pulpit. I want to come up with a good way to support the mast durning transit so I can eliminate it but as of yet have not.

    And that brings me to your ladder solution. I have always been and will always will be a function before form type person. But after function is accomplished I try to make form work also. And while all of the function requirements are met with your ladder solution the form portion of the equation is not there for me yet. If I decide on a stern pulpit to help support the mast during transit the ladder will blend in and not be an issue. If not I need to come up with another solution to my delema.
    JERRY CARPENTER - C147
    A man can succeed at almost anything for which he has unlimited enthusiam.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    56

    Form...

    Jerry...here's the form aspect.....
    Attached Images  

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brooksville, FL
    Posts
    720
    Full and By

    You do have a good looking commander. And you sail her on some pretty big water (Lake Erie) which these boats seem to thrive in.

    Have you noticed how some women appeal to some men but not to you? For me it's the same thing with boats. You and I have similar taste in that we both like commanders. But no matter how small the ladder folds up it just seems out of place sitting there all by itself to me. This might be the reason that pushes me to install the stern pulpit on Destiny. But that is also overly large and does not seem right to me. So maybe my local metal shop will get another order from me on a modified stern pulpit that will be as minimalistic as possible and still serve the function of mast support and ladder camouflage so I can get the benefits of the function of your ladder setup.
    JERRY CARPENTER - C147
    A man can succeed at almost anything for which he has unlimited enthusiam.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,621

    Markus MOB Emergency & Rescue Ladder

    After a 2.5 year sleep, here is a new to me Icelandic BOARDING ladder. One way UP only.
    Imco emergency ladders shouldn't be confused with the swim ladder. Or be considered interchangable.
    Augustine's roll-up boarding ladder is, imco, mandatory safety equipment.

    ►You can buy a basic SeaDog Emergency Ladder 5 stepper for $35. It is a clever rope and step contraption that folds compactly into hollow half-round plastic rungs and has pvc pipe wrapped rope sides to grap onto - rather than skinny rope. It hangs from a single point, and because of that will be unstable to climb. Comes in a cover bag and has a loop to grab from the water.
    ►Another 5-stepper is Plastimo Emergency Ladder. Basically the same design but made with webbing, hangs from a single loop (but looks like it can be altered to two points for more stability) You will use the steps to grab for ascending. $119.
    ►Third one is the Wichard Emergency Ladder, based on rock climbing's Etrier all web stuffer. The 'rungs' are double layer stiffened nylon web. Attached to the boat with a single loop (to a stanchion, pad eye or cleat), with a glow in the dark loop to pull it out of the stuff bag. $130.
    The 2nd picture accompaning the description shows a 20 year old buzzcut in a PFD holding the device tightly to his chest with his left arm, his right grasping the toerail of a yacht about midships, his lower body in the water but obviously slung under the hull, with his cheek jammed against the topside's awlgrip. Looks like he's really gasping. Only the French can have an ad like this! Only 5'5" long. [see next post]
    There's no single shot of this webbing ladder deployed to show why we should buy the thing. That may be deliberate. Can imagine one problem is that only one foot can go to any one rung at a time. So a body can't rest momentarily*, as we may have to, while investigating the next move. Only buff Navy Seals can haul themselves up... maybe - not scared-to-hell old guys flailing around trying to figure out why their left leg isn't working.
    *Body 'rests' when legs and feet share equal weight...important for non-athlectic people.

    ►Here's a possible better choice. MARKUS RESCUE SYSTEMS*. (We find out what Lifenets, mesh scramble nets, rescue cradles are all about.)
    Check out their MOB Emergency and Rescue Ladder, MEL-2-270. (Don't have the price yet.)
    It is a three point attachment ladder with three vertical 'rails' - horizontal 'rungs' separarted with a central 'rail' - which are all webbing. It's a 2step-wide scramble net that is deployed from a L19"x8"x2" white pvc storage bag. Weight, a little over 2lbs.
    Have not seen this product first hand, But do seem to be tuned into how these people are thinking.
    Even a floppy web-tape ladder with 3-point attachment is probably way more stable to climb than a single point hanging attachment.
    Don't care what rock climbers use.
    Once the feet are engaged in the 'mesh' the climber's weight is supported evenly while scrambling, even though the webbing may close around the foot, body weight is distributed evenly. Only guessing. Hopefully, testing will be infrequent.
    But it will be good to know if this product really is a dependable life saver. Other emergency ladders I'd be in trouble with...in an emergency.
    Markus also has readymade a MOB FRC Rescue-net. (look at fact sheet for the SCN6-250R, it's a 6step wide climbing net made with 1" webbing)
    It is L51"x10'x2". Do not know if that is its storage bag dimensions. Imco a 4step wide would be great. See them in some of their SOLAS fotos.


    A thought for another kind of dual use boarding ladder.
    I have one of those innovative UP-N-OUT rod telescopers. Can be used as an emergency rescue ladder. Requires its own permanent allotment of deck space. And probably would be stowed below when offshore.
    I like its open design, incredible cold hard strength, yet yielding with its interlocking pieces, seems like it can't get yanked out of shapel with an off-balance lurch like a set of tube steps might. Acceptable weight, not cataloged by WM...yea!

    Markus, as you see, has this scramble net on steroids called Jason's Cradle. [see next post]
    Looks like stiffened cargo netting that could be an alternative to shiney tube or rod swim ladders for getting on & off the deck.
    Don't know yet what the webbing is stiffened with. Dipped in plastic or rubber?. I can see a ROLL of this net in the lifelines on A338.
    Probably slung over a sausage of fenders to keep it off the hull paint.

    JASON CRADLE
    If this stuff takes a set from being rolled up, that might be useful when the material is pulled down into the water, giving it a tendency to curl away from the hull - rather than hanging limp. All verticals attached to a bar and to the toe rail. Assume, the net will stay relatively docile, easy to climb.... rather than flop and fly around in wind and wave. If the boat is drifting at all and the victim is on the more quiet leeward side, an ordinary emergency ladder will be swept under the turn of the hull - as will the person. A stiff rescue net (multistep ladder) might make a possible to climb back on board with ease. Dual use, general swim ladder as well. This item doesn't exist yet, I'd like two 4step wide ones, please. [maybe it does, see next post]


    I will find out what their MOB Emergency and Rescue Ladder goes for. Want one for either side of LittleGull just aft of the shrouds.....
    *http:http://www.seamarshall-us.com/mariti...mble-nets.html
    (this vendor shows the Jason net material as Jason's Cradle. They seem to think it should be used only for rolling bodies! aboard!
    See YouTubes on site - one is pretty wierd!)
    Last edited by ebb; 07-12-2014 at 07:27 AM.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,621

    Markus MOB Emergency Ladder

    Sorry, I'm unable to put a picture here. It is worth it to see this ladder.
    Type the above post title into google for a short YouTube intro. Smart design.

    MARKUS MOB Emergency and Rescue Ladder - MEL-B2-175
    The ladder mesh is made with 1" polyester webbing. Weighs 2lbs2oz. Breaking strength over 1,750lbs.
    Ladder is 16" wide, making the width about 6" inside the two step wide mesh.
    Plastic 'rodes' (stiffeners) in the horizontals, and an aluminum bar across the top distributes the load to 3points as buckle fasteners.
    Total length 6'5" (77"). There are 5 steps. Length to the bottom step where the pulldown handle hangs: 69". MEL-B2-175* is actually recommended for a boat with 31" freeboard on the Markus home site, Iceland.
    Ariel freeboard amidships measures 30-31" - off Alberg's lines drawing in the Manual.
    Theoretically, on a calm day, 36" of the ladder is below water - 3 steps plus the 'lead weighted handle". $151.

    HOWEVER,
    in the personal message portion of an email from seamarshall-us.com, my contact, Michael adds: "Please ensure that the net be at least 1.5 to 2 meters longer than the freeboard." So that's 1 3/4 meters, correct? {One meter = 39.37". 1.5 meters = 59". Two meters = 78.74".
    Half the distance between 1.5 and 2 meters: 19.69 x ½ = 9.8". Add 9.8" to 59" = 69". Add the Ariel freeboard: 31" and the 1.5to2 meter calculation = 100". 100" = 8'4'. Next catalog size ladder, MEL B2-220** is 88.6"long, about 7'4' (actually, Michael's minimum recommendation of 1.5 meters.) That's almost 5' of ladder in the water. Seems good.}
    CONTRAST the 3' length of underwater net recommended from the Markus, Iceland site.... with the counsel from SeaMarshall of at least 5'. $174. (X 2)
    Storage cover is PVC/Polyester fabric. 20"x8"x2" (Lloyd's Register/SOLAS, ICELAND)
    http://www.seamarshall-us.com/ 1-772-388-1326.

    *MEL-B2-175 is also listed as 1 310 170W.
    **MEL-B2-220 is also known as 1 310 220W in the seamarshall catalog.
    Markus makes 3 - 4 - 5 step wide emergency scramble web-nets for yachts. Imco wider webbing will ensure emerging from a sudden dump more dignified... than hunting with boots on for loops in a too narrow web.

    This piece of gear has only one job to do: get a climber back on the boat. One inch webbing is not substantial material altho it's strong and adequate, depending on how it's made. I'd like to see a ladder like this of 1¼" tube webbing - a little more druthers to grab onto. More weight, more expense, larger package, and imco much easier to climb.

    ► A MOB emergency ladder is important safety gear. May never be used, but when it is, must do important work. Rather than trust SeaDog, Plastimo, Wichard niche-filling safety ladder products of inappropriated design & unknown quality....imco, it's wiser to consider a perhaps unknown but longtime manufacturer of professional safety products. It's not an anonymous off the shelf leisure product we want, but confidence, that even after some forgotten time past warranty..... it'll still be all there when we pull the handle!◄
    Enthusiasm is no guarantee that these ladders perform as expected - caveat emptor - check out the product yourself. Seamarshall site is a gas!
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..................................................
    JASON'S CRADLE
    stiff mesh ladder is NOT rubber dipped webbing, as I guessed wrong - it is a whole other kettle of fish. Made by a different company in UK.
    SeaMarshall has a separate page for this product. It's made with small frame-like acetal and polyethylene 'tile' pieces, linked together with 316ss fasteners. Like a piece of a plastic conveyor-belt. Infact the videos demonstrate a host of bodies being rolled up the sides of Homeland Security RIB's in practice recovery. Looks easy, rolling passive victims out of the drink, but seems rather bizarre... almost crude.

    AS A CLIMBING LADDER
    Here is an amazing UNIQUE readymade candidate for a semi-permanent (removable) roll-up ship's ladder....
    On the J.C. page find the tech SPEC SHEET for the 1MC-JCFCR003. Jason's Cradle FRC Kit.* The 3 refers to the number of step spaces across the 'mesh' (this piece of gear is in no way a net). http://seamarshall-us.com/JasonsCradleLib11321010071
    This particular articulated belt is a tidy 21" wide and about 80" long. Weighs 26.5lbs - and rolls up into a 14" diameter bundle.
    Data sheet shows a 'quick release' orange case can be had for it. "..SOLAS approved..quaranteed against defects for 3yrs....useful service life well in excess of 10yrs."
    *FRC = Fast Rescue Craft = high powered rigid inflatable boat = RIB
    http://www.jasoncradle.co.uk/ [no idea why this doesn't work. There are a number of Factsheets that have good close-ups of the Cradle]

    Have no idea what they get for this two meter long wonder. Delrin is expensive. Needs protection from UV.
    This is military gear, but thinking of it as an alternative for stainless tube, guess initial cost may be about equal¿ Take the place of the same-old same-old stainless tube ladders everybody hates. Whether JasonCradle can be taken out of the emergency sphere and used as a 'Jason Ladder' aboard a sailboat... will take more than a conversation with a salesman. Somebody has to try it and test it out. The company is well aware of the 'leisure' market, but seems fixated on the MOB body-roll recovery aspect: see Factsheet JC200] It's a winner, if they market it correctly.
    Can be stowed below, hangs straight in the water, use it drapped on your airboat dinghy (w/ added glue-on D-rings). Portable: set it up anywhere on the Ariel as the boarding and debarking ladder - when afloat or on hard. Won't mount it off the stern, but imco it'd be perfect at the cockpit coamings.
    "Tensile tested in excess of one metric tonne (2,205lbs)" (Lloyd's Register/SOLAS, UK)
    {later EDIT: Jason'sCradleFRCKit (1'9" W x 79" L) $2400)

    you almost saw it here first.
    'These products are worthy of further enquiry.' I said that. Can find no forum discussions.
    Both these ladders hanging from the toerail will be too close to the hull. However, slung over a 6"D foam-filled fender might be the way to get hand and foot hold away from the hull.
    Last edited by ebb; 11-26-2015 at 10:35 AM.

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