Boarding Ladders

[ebb]

I think the inconvenience of the rigging in your face coming aboard from the ladder
will be offset by the relief of getting there.
There's a couple of stages. You have to do at least a preliminary mock up
to see if you can stand how it looks, or excuse its looks because it's absolutely necessary.
The Mystic Foldaway is probably one you assume will work as designed.
It most certainly is the heaviest, most substantial, and most expensive.
You may have to choose that one because it's the only one that'll be anywhere near complimentary with your work!

I don't know how a vertical fold-up could work without adding the extra stanchions to mount it on. Free-standing - no wire.
The stanchions lining up with the orginal chainplates might put the foldaway inside the beam of the boat. Great for coming along side. Mystic website shows the ladder attached to the genoa track. Extra $$ for the track clips, 316, heavy wall 1"D tube, That's the right stuff - weight unknown. But it's also a lot of shiney metal! There may be other attachment options.

Only when deployed would it be extended over the topsides. Because the Mystic folds hingelike it would be easier to mount then a telescoper which pulls straight down and would need to be mounted outsde the boat's beam. The telescoping Seasense is 18-8 or 304 and surely will rust immediately. China. I'd hold out for a real one, but the design is bad for any stainless.
Though it also - with a custom bracket - could be designed to swing down from vertical hinged on the toerail and then detelescoped from the water to deploy. A four stepper might be all you need to get near two steps in the water. 50#! Cheap.

If you find something that looks OK and fits, the other stuff comes natural, maybe track or a rail to grab on the cabin roof will be the all important third handhold to get safely aboard.

Somebody else has to chime in and suggest using the bow to get onboard!
But until then, Jerry, this Ariel owner thinks you have the best and safest location for lit'lgull MOB ladder(s). Mounting a ladder on the stern means only one, so sides logically requires two. Remember, you'll need it on the side that doesn't have it!

I really like the ingenious UP-N-OUT bent rod ladder. A 316 5 stepper is about half the price of a Mystic 5 step, rod is not hollow but wouldn't surprise me if it was half the weight. Unknown. Still pricey, free shipping, which is a huge cost addon these days.
When I met Dave the UP-N-OUT inventor at the boat show he was a mom-n-pop. Maybe he still actually makes them, as back then. The ladder is customed to the boat, indeed to the spot on the boat you have for it. You'll like the ladder, but may need to see it befor you buy. It definitely stacks different. Don't think it can be mounted in the rigging. Might have a nylon or sunbrella case made for it, open on the bottom from whence it deploys, that would keep lines out it, make it more neat & anonymous or more acceptable like the life ring, or sail bag, or fenders.......and have its own spot just forward or aft of the shrouds. Ormounted on the cabin side. Ariel couldn't do it but maybe Commander could!
(Think I'll wait for the in the water boat show here in April, check to see if he has a booth, and go with options, measurements and questions to see where the bundle will fit.) This up-n-go has all the ear marks for being a rugged, maintenance-free piece of cruising gear - looks righton to me.
imco it will quickly become accepted as one of the crew!

If we have a slip in a marina, or anywhere for that matter, and if the ladder is permanently installed - it will get stolen, no ifs.
SO if the ladder is easy to remove (like slipping over two permanent stanchions) it will be unslipped and stored below when nobody's aboard.

Really interested to see what you come up with.

[Full and By]

...and I don't have lifelines or pulpits. They're for sale.

[Full and By]

I'm new here and I'll figure out how to post pics soon...but there are some here...the last ones are of the boarding ladder http://www.facebook.com/bill.mcgraw1?sk=photos

[Full and By]

I't pretty easy to mount but it will require backing blocks underneath the deck and some fitted blocks for the forward bolt on each side as the ladder mounting plates are longer than the elevated portion of the afterdeck. It does not interfere with the lazerett function. Note the ball at the end of the line near the water....

[Full and By]

This ladder is exceedingly stiff in use and it's heavily built. It requires no attachment to or brace against the transom itself but relies on the considerable deck rigidity at the toerail and the beefy brackets. We used it all last summer while swimming (I'm 225lbs) and once when we really had to. It works well.

[Commander 147]

I like the way it does not rest against the transom and scratch it up. It is one of the ladders I looked at but it was only rated at 200 Lbs. and I weigh 212. It is good to hear that it seems plenty strong even with it's rating.

My biggest problem with mounting a ladder on the transom is I did not want to cover any of it up and your solution appers to keep the transom clear. And the back stay gives you something to hold onto when climbing aboard. Thanks for posting the pictures it certainly gives me something to think about.

The way Ebb has done his outboard on his boat this solution would not work for him. But Destiny will have an inboard electric drive and a prop in the aperature at the end of the keel. Quite a bit further away than an outboard prop would be. Hmmmm....

[Full and By]

Jerry,

The line running the length of the cockpit is crucial to the function of the ladder as a "rescue' device. Without the tether to pull you next to the ladder, you won't catch it if you're underway.

The line is fore and aft, about 8 inches from the cockpit floor and about 3 inces from one side or the other. I use a line about the size of a dockline for the boat, pulled tight with a trucker's hitch on one end and an spliced eye on the other. It doesn't get in the way when you're sailing and it seems you never know it's there in good weather.

I also added full length cabintop handrails, replacing the short ones that were original. I don't have lifelines forward so the handrails are welcomed and don't seem obtrusive to my eye.

The original lifelines, forward, terminated at pad eyes on the deck about 30% of the way forward from the fwd lowers to the bow pulpit....meaning that you don't have lifelines forward as a practical matter, even with the boat equipped with them. This free space over the toe rail is so that the genoa can clear the foredeck when tacking.

[ebb]

After a 2.5 year sleep, here is a new to me Icelandic BOARDING ladder. One way UP only.
Imco emergency ladders shouldn't be confused with the swim ladder. Or be considered interchangable.
Augustine's roll-up boarding ladder is, imco, mandatory safety equipment.

►You can buy a basic SeaDog Emergency Ladder 5 stepper for $35. It is a clever rope and step contraption that folds compactly into hollow half-round plastic rungs and has pvc pipe wrapped rope sides to grap onto - rather than skinny rope. It hangs from a single point, and because of that will be unstable to climb. Comes in a cover bag and has a loop to grab from the water.
►Another 5-stepper is Plastimo Emergency Ladder. Basically the same design but made with webbing, hangs from a single loop (but looks like it can be altered to two points for more stability) You will use the steps to grab for ascending. $119.
►Third one is the Wichard Emergency Ladder, based on rock climbing's Etrier all web stuffer. The 'rungs' are double layer stiffened nylon web. Attached to the boat with a single loop (to a stanchion, pad eye or cleat), with a glow in the dark loop to pull it out of the stuff bag. $130.
The 2nd picture accompaning the description shows a 20 year old buzzcut in a PFD holding the device tightly to his chest with his left arm, his right grasping the toerail of a yacht about midships, his lower body in the water but obviously slung under the hull, with his cheek jammed against the topside's awlgrip. Looks like he's really gasping. Only the French can have an ad like this! Only 5'5" long. [see next post]
There's no single shot of this webbing ladder deployed to show why we should buy the thing. That may be deliberate. Can imagine one problem is that only one foot can go to any one rung at a time. So a body can't rest momentarily*, as we may have to, while investigating the next move. Only buff Navy Seals can haul themselves up... maybe - not scared-to-hell old guys flailing around trying to figure out why their left leg isn't working.
*Body 'rests' when legs and feet share equal weight...important for non-athlectic people.

►Here's a possible better choice. MARKUS RESCUE SYSTEMS*. (We find out what Lifenets, mesh scramble nets, rescue cradles are all about.)
Check out their MOB Emergency and Rescue Ladder, MEL-2-270. (Don't have the price yet.)
It is a three point attachment ladder with three vertical 'rails' - horizontal 'rungs' separarted with a central 'rail' - which are all webbing. It's a 2step-wide scramble net that is deployed from a L19"x8"x2" white pvc storage bag. Weight, a little over 2lbs.
Have not seen this product first hand, But do seem to be tuned into how these people are thinking.
Even a floppy web-tape ladder with 3-point attachment is probably way more stable to climb than a single point hanging attachment.
Don't care what rock climbers use.
Once the feet are engaged in the 'mesh' the climber's weight is supported evenly while scrambling, even though the webbing may close around the foot, body weight is distributed evenly. Only guessing. Hopefully, testing will be infrequent.
But it will be good to know if this product really is a dependable life saver. Other emergency ladders I'd be in trouble with...in an emergency.
Markus also has readymade a MOB FRC Rescue-net. (look at fact sheet for the SCN6-250R, it's a 6step wide climbing net made with 1" webbing)
It is L51"x10'x2". Do not know if that is its storage bag dimensions. Imco a 4step wide would be great. See them in some of their SOLAS fotos.


A thought for another kind of dual use boarding ladder.
I have one of those innovative UP-N-OUT rod telescopers. Can be used as an emergency rescue ladder. Requires its own permanent allotment of deck space. And probably would be stowed below when offshore.
I like its open design, incredible cold hard strength, yet yielding with its interlocking pieces, seems like it can't get yanked out of shapel with an off-balance lurch like a set of tube steps might. Acceptable weight, not cataloged by WM...yea!

Markus, as you see, has this scramble net on steroids called Jason's Cradle. [see next post]
Looks like stiffened cargo netting that could be an alternative to shiney tube or rod swim ladders for getting on & off the deck.
Don't know yet what the webbing is stiffened with. Dipped in plastic or rubber?. I can see a ROLL of this net in the lifelines on A338.
Probably slung over a sausage of fenders to keep it off the hull paint.

JASON CRADLE
If this stuff takes a set from being rolled up, that might be useful when the material is pulled down into the water, giving it a tendency to curl away from the hull - rather than hanging limp. All verticals attached to a bar and to the toe rail. Assume, the net will stay relatively docile, easy to climb.... rather than flop and fly around in wind and wave. If the boat is drifting at all and the victim is on the more quiet leeward side, an ordinary emergency ladder will be swept under the turn of the hull - as will the person. A stiff rescue net (multistep ladder) might make a possible to climb back on board with ease. Dual use, general swim ladder as well. This item doesn't exist yet, I'd like two 4step wide ones, please. [maybe it does, see next post]


I will find out what their MOB Emergency and Rescue Ladder goes for. Want one for either side of LittleGull just aft of the shrouds.....
*http:http://www.seamarshall-us.com/mariti...mble-nets.html
(this vendor shows the Jason net material as Jason's Cradle. They seem to think it should be used only for rolling bodies! aboard!
See YouTubes on site - one is pretty wierd!)

[ebb]

Sorry, I'm unable to put a picture here. It is worth it to see this ladder.
Type the above post title into google for a short YouTube intro. Smart design.

MARKUS MOB Emergency and Rescue Ladder - MEL-B2-175
The ladder mesh is made with 1" polyester webbing. Weighs 2lbs2oz. Breaking strength over 1,750lbs.
Ladder is 16" wide, making the width about 6" inside the two step wide mesh.
Plastic 'rodes' (stiffeners) in the horizontals, and an aluminum bar across the top distributes the load to 3points as buckle fasteners.
Total length 6'5" (77"). There are 5 steps. Length to the bottom step where the pulldown handle hangs: 69". MEL-B2-175* is actually recommended for a boat with 31" freeboard on the Markus home site, Iceland.
Ariel freeboard amidships measures 30-31" - off Alberg's lines drawing in the Manual.
Theoretically, on a calm day, 36" of the ladder is below water - 3 steps plus the 'lead weighted handle". $151.

HOWEVER,
in the personal message portion of an email from seamarshall-us.com, my contact, Michael adds: "Please ensure that the net be at least 1.5 to 2 meters longer than the freeboard." So that's 1 3/4 meters, correct? {One meter = 39.37". 1.5 meters = 59". Two meters = 78.74".
Half the distance between 1.5 and 2 meters: 19.69 x ½ = 9.8". Add 9.8" to 59" = 69". Add the Ariel freeboard: 31" and the 1.5to2 meter calculation = 100". 100" = 8'4'. Next catalog size ladder, MEL B2-220** is 88.6"long, about 7'4' (actually, Michael's minimum recommendation of 1.5 meters.) That's almost 5' of ladder in the water. Seems good.}
CONTRAST the 3' length of underwater net recommended from the Markus, Iceland site.... with the counsel from SeaMarshall of at least 5'. $174. (X 2)
Storage cover is PVC/Polyester fabric. 20"x8"x2" (Lloyd's Register/SOLAS, ICELAND)
http://www.seamarshall-us.com/ 1-772-388-1326.

*MEL-B2-175 is also listed as 1 310 170W.
**MEL-B2-220 is also known as 1 310 220W in the seamarshall catalog.
Markus makes 3 - 4 - 5 step wide emergency scramble web-nets for yachts. Imco wider webbing will ensure emerging from a sudden dump more dignified... than hunting with boots on for loops in a too narrow web.

This piece of gear has only one job to do: get a climber back on the boat. One inch webbing is not substantial material altho it's strong and adequate, depending on how it's made. I'd like to see a ladder like this of 1¼" tube webbing - a little more druthers to grab onto. More weight, more expense, larger package, and imco much easier to climb.

► A MOB emergency ladder is important safety gear. May never be used, but when it is, must do important work. Rather than trust SeaDog, Plastimo, Wichard niche-filling safety ladder products of inappropriated design & unknown quality....imco, it's wiser to consider a perhaps unknown but longtime manufacturer of professional safety products. It's not an anonymous off the shelf leisure product we want, but confidence, that even after some forgotten time past warranty..... it'll still be all there when we pull the handle!◄
Enthusiasm is no guarantee that these ladders perform as expected - caveat emptor - check out the product yourself. Seamarshall site is a gas!
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JASON'S CRADLE
stiff mesh ladder is NOT rubber dipped webbing, as I guessed wrong - it is a whole other kettle of fish. Made by a different company in UK.
SeaMarshall has a separate page for this product. It's made with small frame-like acetal and polyethylene 'tile' pieces, linked together with 316ss fasteners. Like a piece of a plastic conveyor-belt. Infact the videos demonstrate a host of bodies being rolled up the sides of Homeland Security RIB's in practice recovery. Looks easy, rolling passive victims out of the drink, but seems rather bizarre... almost crude.

AS A CLIMBING LADDER
Here is an amazing UNIQUE readymade candidate for a semi-permanent (removable) roll-up ship's ladder....
On the J.C. page find the tech SPEC SHEET for the 1MC-JCFCR003. Jason's Cradle FRC Kit.* The 3 refers to the number of step spaces across the 'mesh' (this piece of gear is in no way a net). http://seamarshall-us.com/JasonsCradleLib11321010071
This particular articulated belt is a tidy 21" wide and about 80" long. Weighs 26.5lbs - and rolls up into a 14" diameter bundle.
Data sheet shows a 'quick release' orange case can be had for it. "..SOLAS approved..quaranteed against defects for 3yrs....useful service life well in excess of 10yrs."
*FRC = Fast Rescue Craft = high powered rigid inflatable boat = RIB
http://www.jasoncradle.co.uk/ [no idea why this doesn't work. There are a number of Factsheets that have good close-ups of the Cradle]

Have no idea what they get for this two meter long wonder. Delrin is expensive. Needs protection from UV.
This is military gear, but thinking of it as an alternative for stainless tube, guess initial cost may be about equal¿ Take the place of the same-old same-old stainless tube ladders everybody hates. Whether JasonCradle can be taken out of the emergency sphere and used as a 'Jason Ladder' aboard a sailboat... will take more than a conversation with a salesman. Somebody has to try it and test it out. The company is well aware of the 'leisure' market, but seems fixated on the MOB body-roll recovery aspect: see Factsheet JC200] It's a winner, if they market it correctly.
Can be stowed below, hangs straight in the water, use it drapped on your airboat dinghy (w/ added glue-on D-rings). Portable: set it up anywhere on the Ariel as the boarding and debarking ladder - when afloat or on hard. Won't mount it off the stern, but imco it'd be perfect at the cockpit coamings.
"Tensile tested in excess of one metric tonne (2,205lbs)" (Lloyd's Register/SOLAS, UK)
{later EDIT: Jason'sCradleFRCKit (1'9" W x 79" L) $2400)

you almost saw it here first.
'These products are worthy of further enquiry.' I said that. Can find no forum discussions.
Both these ladders hanging from the toerail will be too close to the hull. However, slung over a 6"D foam-filled fender might be the way to get hand and foot hold away from the hull.