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Thread: Trailer Discussions

  1. #76
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    64
    Rico, thanks for the advice! I really appreciate it.

    Yes this price is right, which is why I am interested, but if the trailer just wont do the job then I obviously don't want to spend my money on it!

    My back and forth would be about 30-40miles twice a year.

    The seller emailed me that he used it for a j24, which is obviously lighter, but the previous owner used it for a boat around 5,000 lbs. He didn't know what boat though, nor did he know the builder of the trailer. Would I have to get some sort of trailer surveyor to qualify/test the load capacity?
    Last edited by C38; 10-20-2010 at 04:46 AM.
    Mike E

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    San Francisco - or Abroad
    Posts
    430
    Sorry - I did not complete my thought above.; I meant to say 'A phone call to the trailer builder/manufacturer should get you a quick answer'... They will be the most qualified to answer the question.
    They' have a record of the design spec for the trailer based on the VIN number. And it won't cost you anything. The next best option will be a structural engineer, but he will not be too familiar with trailer design - most likely.
    I brought-up the issue because my trsailer builder tried to make a 4" section work, but could not... We ended-up going with a 6" section for the main steel members.

    The section on the trailer above looks to be 4", but it is hard to tell what sort of construction it is. If it is a light steel tube - I can almost bet it will be way too light for a 5,500 boat (and this is BARE boat weight - add some more for the weight of your gear to that...

    I do think it is C-channel.

    The trailer looks fairly recent - why isn't it registered?? Make sure you are not buying any outstanding liabilities.
    Last edited by Rico; 10-20-2010 at 08:36 AM.

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    64
    Rico, thanks again.

    The seller does not seem to be that knowledgeable about any of the issues i need answering. Because of this I will probably not purchase this, or even go look at it as it's a 4hr round trip for me and isn't worth the time right now.
    Mike E

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Grand Haven / Muskegon, Michigan
    Posts
    613
    I've lucked into a free trailer! I've stored my unsightly one beside this one for several years and happened to ask my buddy whose lot it is on the story. Yadda, yadda, yadda... and he said it's all yours whenever you want to haul it away. Need to check the wheel bearings, brakes, etc, but it appears in good shape. Brakes are a great / legalizing upgrade from my crazy yard trailer.

    I was collecting pictures of your trailers for my fabricator and had a question. I think the trailer would convert easily to one like Josh's for A-74 (picture 3). I'd just planned to use flat tops on my jack-stands, but saw Mike's rollers on A-398 (picture 4). The trailer has a bunch of rollers that were going either to the junk yard or Craigslist, but I wondered about the pros and cons for using some of them `a la A-398.

    Thoughts? They would complicate bottom painting just a touch, but as long as the jack stands can drop them low enough and out of the way, that seems minimal. Seems like improved points of contact over flat-tops would be good.
    Attached Images        
    Last edited by Lucky Dawg; 11-20-2010 at 01:27 PM.

  5. #80
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Excelsior, Minnesota
    Posts
    326
    Kyle,
    A lot depends on how you plan to launch/retrieve Lucky Dawg. The rollers are great if you think you will be going on and off with the trailer but if you are going to have a yard launch and haul out I think the pads are much better: distributes weight better, easier for bottom cleaning and painting, boat is much more likely to stay put in an accident. If you use six you can drop a pair at a time for bottom maintenance.
    Mike
    C227

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Bainbridge Island, WA
    Posts
    58

    rollers vs pads

    I created my trailer from a non-sailboat trailer last spring. (check out pictures und c-231) I went with pads, using the tops from 6 brownell stands. The threaded shafts are plenty strong for a bit of lateral load, which I opted for rather than trying to get the supports to be perpendicular to the hull.

    I did employ 6 supports, which gives me the ability to lower one at a time out of the way for bottom maintenance. It also obviously gives some structural redundancy since I did the welding myself.

    Another important consideration in favor of pads rather than rollers is that they do a better job of securing the boat from shifting in line with the trailer during hard braking or jerking up a steep hill. Rollers are ok for power boats which can be easily secured to a winch post, but that is almost impossible with a high sailboat hull. The rollers which came with mine are under my shed in case someone ever needs to convert back.

    Another thing to consider is that the trailer should be set up so that whatever supports the keel is capable of carrying the full weight of the ship, say 5500 lbs (without any safety factor). Power boats tend to make it easier to distribute the load closer to the sides of the trailer, no so for a big blob of lead.

    On my trailer (a modified shoreline) I ordered from the factory an additional cross arm (they call it a pivot) to go under the center of gravity, since the power boats typically have that part too far aft. I kept the original one on back there too.

    My diagonal braces help to support the cross arm, in effect creating a bit of a truss with the hull of the boat acting as the top chord.

    In my case I calculated that the center of gravity of the boat had to be just 9" forward of the mid point between the axles to give me a tongue weight of about 400 lbs, which I deemed enough but not too much.

    I was pretty anxious when the travel lift lowered her down and the trailer just kept dropping, but it eventually settled down without looking too stressed.

    I will say that it towed very comfortably. It was about 20 miles back to the house, and I could have dogged it on the not to busy highway with the flashers on, but it felt good enough that I did take it all the way up to 60 mph on a straight level section, just so I could say the Commander went a mile a minute once.

    Other things I was glad I did: replace the original brake actuator, flushed out the lines real good, and made sure they worked with the trailer up on blocks, and put on NEW TIRES before I even brought the trailer home. They were not that expensive, and with the loads we are talking about, they run pretty close to capacity. Old weather checked rubber has no place under a boat like that. Think about the family in their suv headed the other way as you come down the road...

    I will post a link to the pictures shortly..

    -Frenna

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Bainbridge Island, WA
    Posts
    58

    C-231 trailer

    Here is the link to C-231, down toward the bottom are the trailer pics, wich are worth a thousand words....

    http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussi...1&daysprune=-1
    Attached Images    

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Grand Haven / Muskegon, Michigan
    Posts
    613
    Thanks gentlemen for your advice. Maybe I can find a home for all those rollers. The boat only goes on and off the trailer with a travel lift or fork lift. I appreciate you both clarifying the benefits of tried and true flat tops. I have all of Rico's measurements as well as those from the manual. Thanks again.

    p.s. And good point on the tires. No doubt that several years (8, I think) of sitting idle has rendered them unsafe.
    Last edited by Lucky Dawg; 11-21-2010 at 07:31 PM.

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Grand Haven / Muskegon, Michigan
    Posts
    613
    Having trouble reconciling the cradle measurements from the manual (below) with my current trailer and the one I'm modifying. If, let's say, one were to put 2 axles beneath the cradle drawing, where would they lie? My current measurements (based on locations from my old trailer) have (Rico's calculation) the CG at 152" from the transom, falling just forward of my new forward axle. ...And I don't think that's right. Noting Frenna's CG location at 9" fwd of the centerpoint between the axles would be easy to take off if I could orient it to the cradle drawing. I would think CG would be the best zero point to start from - would that fall on that center pad? Getting the CG and the cradle drawing to line up would help if anyone has ideas on doing so. I fear my trailer doing a wheelie (or 2000# tongue wt) when I put LD down on it.
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by Lucky Dawg; 01-10-2011 at 10:31 AM.

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Forsyth GA
    Posts
    396
    Kyle, If your uprights are adjustable you need not worry, you place the boat on the trailer where you want it. All 6 upright supports on the cradle are fixed and there less than 6 inches difference in height, surely you will have that much adjustment in your uprights.. On the two home made trailers I have, where the cutaway begins on the keel, sits an inch or two forward of the front axle. I tow with a 3500 series dual wheel pickup and it works perfect for me.
    If, when the crane sets your boat on the trailer and your tow truck squats too much stop and move the boat back 6 inches and set the boat down again. adjust the uprights to meet the hull and your good, then adjust the bow stop to meet the boat.
    This works for me and my tows have been over 1000 miles
    PS As mentioned earlier I also added one frame crossmember just forward of the front axle to support the extra forward weight of a sailboat when converting a PB trailer to a Sail trailer

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Forsyth GA
    Posts
    396
    When I look at your trailer I think I would add two crossmembers, it appears you don't have any where you would support the keel. Also looking at your picture, the rear crossmember may need to be raised to fit inside the frame rails and not below it.... maybe. Carl
    Last edited by carl291; 12-06-2010 at 02:40 PM.

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Grand Haven / Muskegon, Michigan
    Posts
    613
    Thanks Carl. I do have beams added (in my drawings) per the cradle (as well as one just forward of the rudder post (yet to be determined exact position)) and I feel confident that my other measurements make sense - it's just the placement / CG with respect to the axles that I want to confirm! Ideas where would the axles be? Logic (to me) says the two beams in the manual drawing sit slightly forward of the center of the midpoint of the two axles.

    P.s could you clarify "where the cutaway begins on the keel" - assuming where the keel begins to angle up towards the bow. Forgive my ignorance!
    Last edited by Lucky Dawg; 12-06-2010 at 04:56 PM.

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Forsyth GA
    Posts
    396
    Kyle, Yes where the keel cutaway foot angles upward. (This where the bulk of the ballast is located) If you look at both trailer pictures that you posted earlier you can see each sets a little different, one is slightly forward of the front axle and the other boat much less so. The length of the tongue on the trailer will effect the weight on the hitch. This could very well be the reason different trailers have the boat placed differently. The position of the beams won't effect the C/G, the position of the load (boat) will. I would try to space the crossmembers evenly with relation to the upright positioning
    The one trailer that I built I took measurements of the bulkheads on the hull and made the uprights set on or very close to these. I thought that was important at the time, in retrospect the weight of the boat is on the keel and the uprights are for balance parked and lateral support running down the road. The bow support I think is most critical, I would make this adjustable or temporary until you know the exact placement of the boat on your trailer. This support, properly set adds support to the tongue of the trailer. If you add a attached ladder to this you won't regret it, I had the forward hatch fly open towing home and no safe way to get on deck. In the pictures of Schnell the blue boat, it appears to not even contact the bow, but then Mike was using this as a cradle preparing to launch. The yellow hull boat doesn't appear to have a bow stop or support, that makes me nervous!
    Kyle, On two of my trailers the rear most crossmember is behind the rudder shoe, the shoe doesn't contact the support on either of them. The third trailer is cut short because it was designed as a float on. Something to keep mindful of is you are going to scrape and paint the hull set the keel on a couple 2x4s placed cross ways on the keel support beam so you can paint the keel bottom, then crank up on the support pads and relocate the 2x4s. .
    If your trailer has spring suspension, the rocker or equalizer between the two springs actually equalize the weight between both axles. this will make an exact measurement not so critical. Think of the advantage of moving rearward on a see saw as a child and the advantage gained so that you could hang your partner in the air!!! Moving 5500lbs 2 or 3 inches is a lot of weight adjustment.

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Forsyth GA
    Posts
    396
    Here's a picture of where 259 sits on her trailer, and the position of the crossmembers.
    Attached Images  

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Forsyth GA
    Posts
    396
    Here's a PB trailer I converted to haul an Electra, I added the crossmember between the axles and of course the uprights. and keel support.
    Attached Images  

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