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Thread: Sails

  1. #1
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    Sails

    If you are looking for a sail maker,

    DO NOT ORDER FROM PEAK SAILS NORTH AMERICA

    They have a very sophisticated website. They show 5 star reviews, but a clue that
    something's up is their cheaper prices. They have no address in the US. They have
    phone numbers or a numer of phones that seem to change location.

    Conformation comes when you check Peak Sails NA on BBB. Where customers
    complain of wrong sizes, waiting forever, never receiving sails after payment,
    and never hearing back phone calls.

    Whether all the complaints are legit is overshadowed by the number of complaints.
    BBB show Peak Sails answering some of their bad practices. When they mention
    their 42,000sqft(?) sailloft or the troubles that HK is having with the dictatorship
    take over, the words don't indicate a large loft, but a sweatshop that can't keep it
    together. It's an elaborate scam. Or something else, of course.

    Give your local independent sailmaker your custom.

    Give Peak Sails North America a w i d e berth..
    __________________________________________________ ________________





    [EBB'S ARIEL HAS AN EXTRAORDINARY SUIT OF CRUISING SAILS BY CAROL HASSSE
    -- RADICALLY DIFFERENT FROM TRADITIONAL SAILS
    -- GO TO NEXT POST FOR A DESCRIPTION.]


    FINALLY CLUED I HAD TO OBSOLETE THE TROGEAR WISHBONE BOWSPRIT

    It's not designed to share the bow with an anchor roller. I began looking at Trogear
    installation photos -- not a single one had a roller,. some without line chocks.
    Even tho the sprit is $$$ carbon fiber, beautifully made, light as a feather, it didn't
    belong on a cruising sailboat. (Sorry guys)

    It just happened that after I decided to go with a bowsprit that allowed a heavy-
    duty anchor-roller to also mount over the bow: modern aluminum tube and carbon
    fibre sprits appeared on the web, none made in the US. They're Australian - Forspar,
    Brit - Selden, and Sparcraft-Facnor - French. We have to deal with vendors reading
    from prompt cards and sounding inexperienced..

    (Haven't found a cogent discussion on these. But we do have Darrell Nicholson in
    the form of Practical Sailor, as the only one brave enough to speak*. Even so,
    if you are interested, you can't assume anything. I never looked at Forspar's --
    maybe to my detriment, my choice went between Selden and Facnor. Facnor
    has a single page packed with pinky-nail illustrations and terse description of
    their four sprits for a range of yachts. No other info available.))
    *Extending the Bow: Are Add-on Sprit Kits Worth It.) Practical Sailor 2008.

    Spent time noodling Selden, because Hasse chose a Selden furler for my Drifter.
    Could not find an outer end fitting with a bail for a bob stay. Selden sprits are
    reefing. 6-7-8' retractable tubes not designed for bobstays.

    Became zeroed in on Facnor because they seemed to have an easy system to
    remove the pole from the bow to a less crowded spot on deck or below. Also had
    an end fitting for the 'bridle' (bobstay). Facnors cannot be reefed. Even tho
    P.S. says they're 'retractable' . Their deck hardware is 4 bolted and the end and
    central rings are quickly snap-slide removable. The poles are shorter. The one
    I've chosen is about 5 1/2 feet total. My Trogear extended 3' -- and the
    Drifter was measured to that. It also has a Dyneema bobstay. But I'll only get
    2 1/2' at most.. Hasse warned the Drifter will have to go back to the Loft.

    Having fun figuring out what kind of shared extension BRACE/BRACKET** can
    be designed for the anchor roller AND the central collar for the Facnor pole.
    Added weight IN FRONT/FORWARD of the bow is a huge concern.
    **The support is to create more outboard for the a.roller which has to cantilever
    far beyond reason, because when housed the anchor blade can't foul the hull.

    -- 2ndly, next to the roller support but on the other side of the bow, bowsprit
    with its central ring must be fixed forward of the bow to hold and support the
    furling drifter.
    One side has to tame suspended DOWN forces from anchor and warp, the other
    side supports UP and SIDE LOADS from a dynamic sail. Self furling drifter only
    safe to 15 kts. Cannot be left up, must be removed after furling. By ME! ! ! ! !

    Darrell mentions in one of the articles a great snap-shackle and an I-fitting
    Profurl(Fr) has for ONE-HANDED un-hooking/attaching of the drifter's furler from
    the bowsprit. No pix, no link. [Foil-less Furlers Test - PracticalSailor 2011]

    Realize I'll release the halyard and grab handfulls of the furled drifter inboard, it's
    just the cussed image of old bones careened over the pulpit fumbling with a ring-
    pin in a snap-shackle that suddenly releases and shoots into the briney deep..

    All because I HAD this unreasonable yearning for litlgull to morph into a cutter..
    Last edited by ebb; 05-11-2021 at 09:37 AM.

  2. #2
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    NEW CRUISING SAILS
    Carol Hasse design. Last sails from now defunct Port Townsend Sails,. Inc.


    Changes to the original plan include raising the end of the boom so I could
    stand in the cockpit. It meant the boom had to be shortened a bit, which
    meant a coup[le trips down to Watsonville to Buzz Ballinger's shop. Since
    I had given him the original measurement for length, he was a bit elevated.
    The backstay also split from the center to the corners of the transom -- with
    the triangle plate at about the new height of the boom end. Move brought
    backstay in closer than I thought, hence shortening boom.

    Design has no traditional jib or staysl.
    Bow has two large sails on furlers and a storm jib on a movable Solent stay
    18" lower from the masthead to 12" behind the mainstay at the bow fitting.
    The bowsprit is changing as I speak, but still will fly a lite nylon Drifter.
    Genoa furler is a working sail like the main, it stays up. Drifter is meant
    to be taken down when not being used, not meant to sail furled up on the
    bowsprit.

    I have Carol's diagrams of the inventory, but I don't think I can publish them.
    Maybe later with cleaned up pictures, if anyone is cruising their Ariel, you
    might look at the lines to see what an imaginative sail designer did for us.

    Hope the Admiral will post them here! In the least, it's tempting to imagine
    what the world class naval architect in Carl Alberg might chat with the
    world class sailmaker Carol Hasse about. Should litlgull become the subject.



    The furling genoa on the original forestay is a 125% 165sqft. Drifter on the
    sprit at present is 140% and 205sqft. These sail's sheets go to tracks on
    the toerail at the cockpit or to blocks there.
    Triangular Storm sail is hanked to the Solent stay. It's 40sqft, and its sheet
    also goes directly to the cockpit.

    Storm Trysl mounted on its own track next to the main is 45sqyft. It has a
    visibility patch and a Yachtfitters QuickLoader Trysl Track Gate.

    The Mainsl is 144sqft. Its two lower reef rows with RZ reefs at 100sqft and
    58sqft, but four full battens and a Schaefer 1900-10 BER. And Cunningham.
    Has 3 Point System Lazy Jacks by Port Townsend Rigging, Wichard Clips
    and Schaefer Cleats. There's 27' of slippery TidesMarineStrongTrack.

    The cross-cut self furling Drifter of 2.5 nylon has a Torque Rope Pendant
    Spectra Luff Rope and a Tylaska Shackle. The Furler is made in-loft with
    a Selden CX10 Furling System, using a Thimble Kit 26' of Endless Furling
    Line, a Double Fairlead, & a Tandem Block.

    $$$$
    I'm going to give you round numbers, close but not exact, that I finally
    exchanged for my FIVE cruising rags. Drifter: 4370.-- RFG: 3300 - StJib: 2400
    -- FB Mainsl: 6000 -- StTrysl: 2300.


    Coup de mai'tre. Perhaps not wholly, but a fine touch. You may know when
    the Little Gull is in full fettle, he has a fine black head. Carol called, they were
    just beginning the drifter. Mentioning litlgull's namesake, 'How about making
    the top panel in blackfabric, I'll send you a drawing.' It arrived quickly.
    emailed back, wonderful! But why not make it two panels? OK!
    Haven't seen it yet.
    So, was thinking, how often does the big frontend sail look like Marvel Comics?
    How many drifters have you seen with a black top? Most distinguished, right?
    Last edited by ebb; 04-23-2021 at 12:45 PM.

  3. #3
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    SHIPWRIGHT'S CO-OP MERGES WITH PORT TOWNSEND SAIL COMPANY
    marketplace advertiser THE LEADER

    Short article, here are some quotes:

    CAROL HASSE

    'What we do in our loft is a hand finish that's just very beautiful, but more
    importantly than being very beautiful, it protects the sails better from chafe,
    makes them more repairable and longer lasting,' Hasse said.
    Our reputation grew from sticking with that quality construction and even
    though our sails were not price competitive with the offshore or the
    outsourced sails because they were built for a person who might want to
    sail from Pt Townsend to New Zealand and back.. we've had a niche market
    all along', she said.
    .. .. ..
    'After 42 years of stitching together sails, Hasse plans to take some time off
    for herself. Fortunately, she added, most of her sailmaking staff will remain
    in the employ of the Co-Op moving forward.

    'I am excited that the Shipwright's Co-Op is going to take the helm of the
    business I started in 1978, and carry on sailmaking as part of our marine
    trades and our working waterfront here in Pt Townsend." she said. They're
    going to keep all of our sailmakers employed -- who are highly skilled and
    talented and would otherwise be left scrambling for a job.

    'Hasse said she planned to use her new free time to work on compiling all
    of her professional knowledge of sailmaking into a book.'



    From her articles, she is as well a talented writer. What an amazing book
    that will be -- from a world renown sailmaker!!
    Last edited by ebb; 04-23-2021 at 12:43 PM.

  4. #4
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    MAKING A CASE FOR THE HANK-ON STAYSAIL
    signed 'Darrell Nicholson PUBLISHED August 11, 2015'

    Is a short (approx 650 wds) essay, which also includes his signature bio, 175wds.


    Once subscribed to PracticalSailor. But quit, because many inaccuracies and testing
    methods began bugging me. (One was testing paint with tiny chips grouped cheek
    by jowl on the side of a Boston Whaler. Another comparing anchor holding pulling
    from the parking lot of a muddy abandoned marina.) Seems like three decades ago
    I bailed. Realized it was his methodology ( maybe his personality) that got in the
    way of seeing 'test results' as real & accurate. Opinions are opinions.

    So, if you do read the whole article, I'm not endorsing anything. nor proving my
    negative opinion -- years ago got quite testy, his "anchor tests" got me started.

    Here is a qualifier. Two four line paragraphs:

    "In my view, having a foolproof hank-on sail ahead of the mast is not a bad thing.
    On your average cruising boat, the staysail is usually small. and stay itself is far
    enough aft that dousing or setting it doesn't put the crew in any jeopardy. The
    nice thing about this approach is that it greatly reduces the cost of retrofitting a
    sloop with an inner forestay and sail to set on it.

    "Im not alone in questioning the need for the furling staysail. Sailmaker Carol
    Hasse, who specializes in cruising sails, won't hesitate to advocate a hank-on
    staysail over a furler for the offshore cruiser.* The same goes for our tech editor
    Ralph Naranjo. Keep in mind that this is a sail where shape and reliability is
    paramount-two areas where the hank-on sail generally excels over the furled one."
    (*since we are in the business of giving advice for money, this conversational
    quote should be substantiated with the source, like a Hasse quote.)

    Well, that alone shld be enough. Hasse would have something to say about her
    furling genoa's shape and reliability. Maybe a pause, remembering the shape and
    reliability of litlgull's skipper.
    Also, opening sentence of the first quote is sortof indecisive - "..having a foolproof
    hank-on.. .. is not a bad thing." The proof of that last phrase is far less than a GOOD
    THING. Quibble tho I must about the style of writing, it's an annoying weak
    argument the way it's written.

    And 'Im not alone in questioning..' Darrell equates himself with Hasse
    'who won't hesitate to advocate a hank-on staysail over a furler for the offshore
    cruiser'. Quibble-quabble, what this is is word-packing. Hasse 'won't hesitate..' ?
    WHO sez that?? So I can't really accept what DARRELL'S saying. Because, in one
    unhesitant case it certainly isn't the Hasse I dealt with!!


    PARTING SHOT. Nicholson hasn't proved his hank-on preference beyond conversational
    'I-told-you-so'. An Ariel-Commander traditional staysail is a tiny thing compared with
    a 125% furling genoa. Comparing a buoy-racing apple with a voyaging naval orange.
    The only argument is that Alberg put it there and did the maths to lock it. Time moves
    on. Furlers have been around since the 80s, they've proved themselves, and they canbe
    dangerous. Sailing is dangerous, that's why we do it. Take on too much water and
    the boat won't float, maybe your preference should be a 60s Plymouth sedan, won't
    sink, it's safer that way. The furling genoa will help you get there sooner, and probably
    a lot more fun. The only unprovable argument is would Alberg approve.
    The answer is in the pudding.
    Last edited by ebb; 06-04-2021 at 09:47 AM.

  5. #5
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    376 presently has a 155 and working jib. A lot of time I’m sailing single-handed in Galveston Bay with the working jib, fall through spring when there’s lots more wind than in the summer. Two weeks ago a microburst hit our marina with 60 to 70 mile an hour winds during a thunderstorm , and pulled the working jib off the Furler and shredded it. Say Bill, I kind of remember in a post somewhere that Ed Akers recommended a 120% and said that was probably the best sail for all around windier conditions. Do you remember that and do you remember any of the discussion around it? I’m thinking going that way instead of replacing the working jib for single handing. Would put on the 155 in summer, then the 120 fall through spring. Any other opinions?
    Last edited by Hull376; 10-06-2021 at 04:55 PM.
    Kent

  6. #6
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    You might try a Google search. Use the method described in a sticky on the off topic forum.

  7. #7
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    Hi Kent, I was a happy sailor when my wife bought a new jib sail for Pathfinder, for Christmas. I found that the 120 was ideal for winds 8 - 18 knots. She knew I wanted a deck sweeper to keep the pressure low in the high range. Plus it was enough sail to keep you moving in the light range. As far as single hand it was much easier that the 155 and I found it very easy to tack by myself. Couple of wraps and maybe a quick crank if I needed to point. I hope this helps........ed

  8. #8
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    Thanks Ed, I spelled your name wrong in my previous post sorry about that! I guess Iím not totally senile since youíre admitting that you did have that discussion somewhere on the forum about getting a 120. I think thatís the way Iím going to go I love your testimonial! I think itíll be the perfect sail- the working jib wouldíve been too small for what I really need.
    Kent

  9. #9
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    As I recall, you might need to install a new jib track for the 120. It's further aft than the 110.

  10. #10
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    Bill, you are right about getting the sheeting angle in the right place. I have the benefit that I have a track installed way back on the toe rail all the way up to the middle of the aft deadlight. Should be a sheeting spot in there somewhere I suppose!

    I also have the original track installed close to the house for the working jib even though that’s probably not exactly in the right place based on something you posted a long time ago in a far away land!
    Last edited by Hull376; 10-08-2021 at 04:35 PM.
    Kent

  11. #11
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    FURLING HEADSAILS
    Furling Headsails Are the Future / an article by Dobbs Davis

    Let's start with a quote:
    "The future is headsails without [bartaut] cables at all.
    The headstay will be needed only to support the mast."
    ... ... "trickle-down from the grand prix to local fleets is
    already happening... " ..happened.
    "In the past year or so [9/2019], sail designers have
    reoriented their thinking to explore flying shapes that allow
    the luff to sag more than a sail whose luff is supported by a
    tight cable."

    "There are a lot of Code Zeros being used in the Wednesday
    Night races in Annapolis.. with these races getting the
    strongest turnout."

    "In all, Jonathon Bartlett of North Sails points out, the new
    generation of Code Zero sails have opened up a whole
    new range of fun for any boat -- not just pure raceboats --
    which is energizing those owners who want to race but don't
    have the ideal sails to make it a worthwhile pursuit."

    "With new materials, sail designs and hardware, furling
    headsails are the way of the future."
    '
    Article is savvy and a good read.
    Will we see them on the Ariel/Commander one of these days?

    __________________________________________________

    What led me here was finding out that a 'structural furler' is a
    fairly easy sail remove furled & bagged to safety below when
    readying for a blow. No, I haven't done it yet. But that's how we
    deal with this sail all the time. My reading shows that Code Zero
    types can't be reefed without special hardware. In other words,
    it's either completely open or fully wrapped for removal. That's a
    very limiting factor as these are light air sails.. the drifter/reacher.
    Genoa is the real problem.
    Going to see if an old staysail can be altered for the SolentStay
    that's rigged on LitlGull.. Called sail inventory.

    Looked on the web for any shared experience in taking a large
    genoa out of its foil track when preparing for a storm.. a way
    more difficult task, especially singlehanded - since the sail will
    have to be laid out back to the cockpit. A tropical storm is not the
    time to see if a sock can keep the sail from being shredded.
    Pulling the luff cable back into the foil is also a lot of fun, I hear.
    Like to read any cruiser's experience with a genoa wind sock
    surviving 100mph..

    The chinese finger trap, or more specifically Vivien Kellem's cable
    grip in a braided cord* might be experimented with: The harder
    it blows, the tighter it holds. Made with no-stretch line.
    [and perhaps two rings at each end of the luff that wld be pulled
    toward the middle to release the tension - to get the
    trap down.. *and not cord but maybe a flat webbing?..]
    Dream-on! Then the problem of removing the web-trap from the
    furled genoa..
    My wind-sock of a brain keeps whispering, Make both headsails
    functionally removable. AND structurally reefable. That's a true
    challenge for our wilder weather cruising years ahead.. Respectfully..
    __________________________________________________ __

    Another essay by Charles J. Doane in SAIL (Updated 8/2/21017)
    titled FURL IT UP begins with this intro:
    "After cruisers tested and perfected furler systems about 30
    years ago, they were widely adopted on certain types of raceboats.
    Since then there's been an interesting reverb effect, in which
    offshore racers have created ever more refined and versatile
    furling technologies that are now trickling back into the cruising
    community."

    Great info, ENJOY
    Last edited by ebb; 11-02-2021 at 10:54 AM.

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