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Thread: Commander 1964 Hull # 38

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,526

    top & bottom rudder -- C38

    joeriver, It is difficult to look at what you show there (at least from here in California).
    From here, if you are asking about the space between the rudder shaft and the keel
    post, the crack is about the same, top to bottom. At least scrape some paint off.

    So, what are you concerned about? You might have looked at the tiller head to see
    if you have any play (movement of the rudder shaft in the rudder tube) and so forth.

    As I say, the rudder looks like a fiberglass rebuild. If this is so, you can't compare
    it with any other rudder anyway. Yours is unique. It requires you to inspect it carefully.
    Remove paint. See what you got. Check sleeve bearing under the tillerhead.

    What you are showing,
    in as few images possible, is what looks like a boat in pretty good shape. Posts from
    some folks here on this thread say: put on some bottom and go sailing. Get familiar
    with your new friend. Get the whole picture before zoning out on a detail.

    Perhaps you are not sure you want to commit to C38. Understandable. You might
    take on the bottom paint job to get started. Paint, rollers, tape, a corded sander from
    HarborFreight, disks, rags and isopropyl alcohol, single use gloves, and a couple beers,
    maybe a friend to help. That will make the boat look so much better, you might sell it.
    You might sail it.

    As one main responder says: If it swings freely, you probably don't have a problem.

    Imco, you have to show more. Like Dr. G says, "I'll know more after my 'Y' incision"...
    However, it's plain, your boat is not dead yet... GO SAILING! ...Get into it, first.

    Of course there is a caveat to this. Before you go sailing, check out all the systems:
    especially the rigging, and steering system, sails, stanchions, safety gear.
    If you are going to moor, this is another system that has to be thought out carefully.
    Battery, pv panel, automatic bilge pumps, will your boat stay afloat in a storm.
    Boat alone on a mooring needs special attention to its chaffing gear.


    Good luck!
    Last edited by ebb; 03-18-2017 at 01:06 PM.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    New York Long Island
    Posts
    72
    Ebb, you are a true mentor to me and the forum. Thank you. Thank you for your honesty and frankness. After a string of expletives, I usually agree with you.

    Yes, sanding the bottom and slapping on some anti-fouling paint. Got my mooring permit yesterday. Got a pretty good location from the town.
    The mooring itself is $650 (300 lbs) for the 27 footer--as I mentioned elsewhere.

    Sanding today as its sunny out and that is good for my SAD. Next step after that is to check out all the systems.

    Thank you Ebb and Pearsonariel.org

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,526

    discussion and some MORC

    Mentor I'm not. I'm an older guy with a similar Alberg to yours, with what I hope you don't
    see as opinion but observations for discussion. Past/present meets future/present.

    Problem, personally, is that I never get enough detail to satisfy. Maybe that's why I write
    so much, don't talk like a teacher, not a teacher, just follow where the words go.

    Have to watch self, because if the muse takes me to those who believe they are mentors,
    and with a little caution and familiarity, find they are not transparent, I'll take them down
    a peg, especially if seriously stupid or dishonest. (New gen anchors, Torqeedo OBs, FDA.)
    .... Sharing is the concept here.
    Sharing is not what manufacturers or government agencies usually do.... Their motto was
    invented by WCFields: "Never smarten up a chump or give a sucker an even break."
    Was born a chump and ever since been trying to smarten up.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~

    Over the years been all over the net and dipped in on dozens of forums. This Forum has
    never gotten political, and Bill has kept our language and images clean. But one thing more
    stands out: There's none of that personal egoism and character assassination here that's
    found on so many English speaking sites. Once again, we're pretty unique. Maybe it's our
    boats: among the most satisfying, easy on the eye, ever designed. As a design, in its
    proportions, A/Cs are the sweetest of any Alberg. Hull lines are pure perfection!
    Commander has the edge as a timeless day sailor. imco

    Probably won't find this again: there is a pix of an invincible Alberg day-morc
    on pg12, post 224, by Skipper Jer -- on the Outboard Discussions thread.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~

    MORC http://morcracing.org/
    Original brochures attracted buyers by stating that Ariel/Commander's are class boats
    designed to the Midget Ocean Racer Cruiser Rule. Pearson took some liberties with
    their rendition of this offshore designation, imco, but this does show our boats' heritage is
    in competitive racing.

    MORC Vs PHRF 28 posts - sail anarchy forums archived
    WillieCrear, posted 18 Nov 2004:
    "The MORC Rule rewarded short length, short WL, wide beam, and high boat weight, so
    MORC boats tended to have high interior volumes, made them good dual-purpose boats,
    that were long-lived due to very sturdy construction.
    ...For most clubs, PHRF is the only game in town. From my perspective, it promotes
    mediocrity on the race course, as boats that win regularly will have their ratings squeezed,
    and those that lose chronically will have their ratings loosened.. I swore off PHRF at any
    level in 1991, haven't looked back, no regrets. For me, it's MORC, IOR, IMS(what's that?)
    or one design."



    How do those rating systems and all that stuff work?
    http://cs.brown.edu/-jfh/boats/FAQ/node13.html {type the above title into search engine}
    IMS..? Get the answer here! John F. Hughes 11/6/1997
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~

    "Life isn't easy, but sure is a lot of fun." Pedro Castillo.
    Last edited by ebb; 03-16-2017 at 09:59 AM.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Eastern, CT
    Posts
    35

    Welcome to the cult Joe.

    I too am a newbie and the good people of this cult will soon have you drinking the Kool-aid! They are knowledgeable and enthusiastic. I have a Commander which I consider floating artwork. I like looking at her almost as much as sailing her.

    Where in Long Island are you? I'm in CT, maybe close enough to meet somewhere this summer.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    New York Long Island
    Posts
    72
    Thanks roy thomas. I am right across from Bridgeport. In Port Jefferson. Would like to meet. That would be very cool.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    New York Long Island
    Posts
    72
    In the inventory of my commander, it lists under Running Rigging: 1 Main halyard consisting of 26 1/2 ' of 1/8 x 7 x 19 Stainless Steel wire and 31' of 3/8 dacron rope and 580W Merriman shackle.

    Next is the 1 Jib halyard . . . . .

    I can not find the stainless steel wire for either the main or the jib.

    Where is it? I have all the Standing Rigging.

    I hoisted the main sail with out needing this. What gives?
    Newbie in Long Island.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    New York Long Island
    Posts
    72
    How long have you been sailing?

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Orinda, California
    Posts
    2,231
    Joe, many skippers have switched out their wire halyards for rope. Usually, these are racing skippers, and they made the change because rope halyards are Lighter in weight. Look for any wear or signs of UV degradation to the fibers. Your local chandlery likely has a rope section. Go talk to them about your halyards and how to check for condition.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    New York Long Island
    Posts
    72
    Thank you for your response Bill.

    So I understand:
    Some boats have wire halyards that are used to raise and secure the main sail and jib.

    The only Stainless Steel wire I have on my Commander is the 8 standing rigging wire pieces: Fore, Aft, 3 Port, and 3 Starboard.

    The inventory shows (I love this manual) wire halyard for the Main and wire halyard for the Jib, in addition to the rope halyards.
    So either my boat had wire at one time, and now has rope, or was always rope.

    On a different note, how was the wire halyard pulled and secured? Is there a picture on the Forum?

    thanks

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    2
    The "wire" halyards are not completely wire. They are about half wire and half rope. The wire is spliced into the rope so that once the sail is hoisted, the halyard from the masthead to just shy of the winch (if using a mast mounted winch) is wire. This way you handle the rope part of the halyard, not the wire part.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    New York Long Island
    Posts
    72
    Thanks tom. I like my rope!

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    New York Long Island
    Posts
    72
    Looking thru the inventory of my Commander, I see the terms: 1 ea. Block DSB3. 1 ea. Block DL3. D.N.R. 3/8 x 1 1/2 SS Pin:
    Stop Sail
    I do not know what these terms mean.
    Thanks

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Baltimore MD
    Posts
    44
    they mean go sailing. Paint the bottom. Go sail. :-)

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    New York Long Island
    Posts
    72
    Come on Caferacer! Jumping on the bandwagon!
    I need some help guys. 2 years ago, I though a sheet was something on a bed!
    AND: My Commander was pretty much all taken apart for a restoration that never happened. I am having a tough time figuring out where things go.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Grand Haven / Muskegon, Michigan
    Posts
    577
    So are you looking for where to attach different blocks, pins, etc? I googled those terms and didn't hit on anything. Maybe PO's homemade terms to ID blocks in their brain? I can show you where various blocks are on Lucky Dawg, but in my experience here, different folks have things set up differently. That is tough task to reattach mid-restoration-removed hardware! It was hard on my resto and I had photos and attachment locations with measurements location of damn near everything. Some photos maybe of what your present layout is? Pretty helpful group, but your question might not have indicated the extent / focus of help you are needing!

    All of my deck hardware - probably labeled with my own shorthand code....

    Name:  partsisparts.jpg
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    Kyle
    C-65 Lucky Dawg

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