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Thread: EBB's PHOTO GALLERY THREAD

  1. #361
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    San Rafael, CA
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    Happy, Happy

    Thanks Frank,
    Sometimes I feel like a boxer whose corner men are trying to get him to listen - stop the bleeding around his eyes - to send him back out against a superior opponent. That oponent in this case is Time.
    And it's the last couple rounds before the lights go out and The Champ is declared the winner!
    And I'm glad to have you and all the guys coaching in my corner.
    Maybe we can beat this one? Hah!

    First monthly Sunday breakfast meeting of the new year (2011) with the
    Alberg Fleet of San Francisco.

    One of the things we do at Cafe Leila is go round the table and report what's happening with the boat.
    Brought a show and tell which was a not yet assembled lexan "pull board" for the two stacked Shurflo pumps that will live in LitGull's narrow sump. It proved productive. Got a bunch of tips from other narrow sump challenged owners and visited Mike's Triton in Brickyard Cove Richmond to see his bilge puimp set-up.

    Hopefully I'll get it together soon and post some pics here.

    Have a great productive year!
    Last edited by ebb; 01-11-2011 at 07:51 AM.

  2. #362
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Scarborough, Maine
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    Could someone please PLEASE post pics of Little Gull before Captain Ebb sails off into the sunset?? Lots of promises, but no pics - zippo - in the last 2+ years!?? Come you guys out West, it's not like you're buried in snow or sumthin' and can't get to the boat!
    Mike
    Totoro (Sea Sprite 23 #626)

  3. #363
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    Pensacola, FL
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    722
    Quote Originally Posted by mbd View Post
    Could someone please PLEASE post pics of Little Gull before Captain Ebb sails off into the sunset?? Lots of promises, but no pics - zippo - in the last 2+ years!?? Come you guys out West, it's not like you're buried in snow or sumthin' and can't get to the boat!
    Wow Mike, I am sorry.... I took some when I was out for a visit last... (?) november? I will see what I can do.


    s/v 'Faith'

    1964 Ariel #226
    Link to our travels on Sailfar.net

  4. #364
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    Jan 2004
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    Scarborough, Maine
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    Much obliged Craig! Hope you took lots and lots!
    Mike
    Totoro (Sea Sprite 23 #626)

  5. #365
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Solomons Island Md.
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    142
    EBB, You are a true master. its funny how artists see things differently than other artists and you hear the phrase "it is what it is "but you you made your vessel what it should have been it truly is a labor of love and an obsession of a perfectionist . My hat is off to you sir you have done a beutiful job on her
    Commander 5

  6. #366
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    7
    Ebb, I have been quite impressed with your efforts. I especially was attracted to the new aft exiting cockpit drains. Could you elaborate a little more about them, pipe size, problems encountered,etc. I am currently embarking on that refit and could use any advice.

    Thanks, Garry
    Arion, Ariel #371, Jones Creek, Baltimore,MD

  7. #367
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Winyah Bay, SC
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    Because he told me about the pics back when he took them, and I have too been eagerly awaiting a viewing , I have a mental image of Craig sitting at home, in the middle of a pile of pictures of "Little Gull", muttering:

    "Mine, mine, yes they are all my pictures, my preciouses, yes, we can't be letting the Ariel site be seeings them, Nooooo, they gets the nasty ideas from Ebb and *steals* them, no, they are mines and Roses and ourses alone..."





    (Gollum image came from, interestingly enough, "faithandgeekery.com" )
    Last edited by epiphany; 02-21-2011 at 06:33 PM.
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  8. #368
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
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    722
    Busted.

    .... I have checked all 3 hard drives I have used since last November... and the 2 memory sticks. I have lots of pictures, many I took on that trip...

    Lil Gull does not appear in any of them... Not sure what gives... ?

    Sorry guys.


    s/v 'Faith'

    1964 Ariel #226
    Link to our travels on Sailfar.net

  9. #369
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    Sep 2001
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    Northern MN
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    1,099
    Craig, is really going to come down to money? Really?
    My home has a keel.

  10. #370
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    San Rafael, CA
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    nasty aft deck scuppers

    These do require a photo for explanation. I'll see what I can do.

    First of all, do you need deck level waterways off the boat along the sheer?
    I put them in, three to a side (probably should have more) because litlgull now has an extended height toe rail.
    This is a 'standup' toe rail like a bulwark rather than a CAP RAIL.
    Caprails which are trim pieces you attach to the top of the existing molded toerail
    are an addition you find on the Alberg Triton.

    Cap rails on an Ariel would not imco raise the level enough to cause a water problem on deck.
    Talking about taking water aboard and getting its weight off the deck pronto.
    If you are adding something like the upright rail A-338 has, then this is what we did.

    As I say I'll find some pixs.
    Tony wanted to see thse scuppers close up. If I can't figure how to email them to him I'll snail them.

    PreMADE SCUPPER LINER
    BEFOR the wood rail was bolted on the toerail, the new scuppers were rough cut out of the existing molded fiberglass toerail.
    Shocking!!! When you do this you definitely are opening up the boat, you can see right in. Inside you can see right out!
    You have ofcourse a model of what you are doing - so if the scuppers slant as they do on litlgull, cut the toe with that in mind as close as you can.
    (I'd first make and have to hand the scupper liner/shell. Not sliced yet.)
    Sawsall the toerail with a stiff small tooth bimetal blade fot the down cuts. For the cut along the deckline, a jig saw with a straight cut small tooth bimetal (hacksaw type blade) is also good.]
    If you have big curved corrners in your scupper like litlgull's no need to duplicate that in your rough-out. Thickened epoxy.
    And you can measure just how wide you have to have your new scupper liner chunks. (At least two inches because of the toerail to deck cove. At deck level)
    Previously I had made a nice full rounded edge mold of some length - say two feet, always make more!
    It's a very smooth ciabatta or bagette shape about 1 1/2" tall and about 4" wide.
    Only the edges on one flat side needs the router with a big roundover bit treatment.

    When ready to make up the fiberglass liner put the prepared form rounded side up on a riser (less wide than the form) so that you can easyly tightly wrap it on top and sides. Staples, tape to the riser.
    If you cover the curved 'bottom' and the sides with 1/8" lay-up of fiberglass, you'd probably never get the glass off the mold. Even with your 'mold release': seran wrap or mylar.
    So the mold form is made with three equal width pieces running the length of the mold. When done you knock the center piece out and the form collapses. Obviously the three piece form is not glued together.

    The inside of the fiberglass crust you make will be nice and smooth.
    You have layed the glass up on seran wrap which epoxy won't stick to. Using the thicker mylar film will give you an incredibly glassy surface. Epoxy doesn't stick to mylar.
    You'll be able to use the form again, many times.
    These scuppers go on the boat OPEN side UP.

    You won't cut them at 90 degrees because you want the scuppers to slant aft.
    The scuppers won't scoop when your rail is in the water that way. And it looks cool. (25 to 30 degrees.)
    You cut the crusts oversize and trim them to fit the original toerail profile after you've glued or tacked the pieces in.

    You will have 'rough cut' your toerail cut outs into the boat so they are exactly at deck level.
    When you position the scupper liner it will be epoxied in so that the thickness of the lay up is above deck level 1/8". Or the thickness of the scupper shell.
    This means that big water will go overboard just fine, and the morning dew will collect and descend the thru-deck pipe scupper that Pearson put in just for that purpose (if your A/C has that feature) but that tiny 1/8" rise keeps it from dribbling and staining the topsides. That's the theory.
    After glue in wipe the globs and squeeze out away with alcohol/paper towels.. It will make it easier to carve the oversized liner back to the original toerail profile with your dremel and carbide burrs.?
    Any imperfections can be filled with fairing compound.*

    Photos show a very clean look to the alteration. The backward slant of the scuppers are all exactly the same. Since that show surface (the inside of the shell) was never worked on and is the same as all the others and pristine.
    Your caprail or toerail extension bridges the scuppers - so you will have remember to varnish underneath.

    You may feel that you should reinforce the scupper liners from underneath with added strips of X-matt. Prop ply pieces topped with mylar underneath the holes with slightly oversized wet strips of X-matt to make a bottom. Mylar topped jigs should fall away after set. You'll be extending the original deck out to the hull at the inside deck level - there will be a little filling to do. Can glue a bit of backing in the side holes so that when you glue the liner in it isn't suspended in the hole on thin cutouts. Depends on how you approach this upgrade.


    You may discover that the new scupper will itself do an excellent strong job closing the hole.
    There are a hundred ways to do this project. This is sort of how it was done on litlgull.
    Some may recall that litlgull's toerail cove INSIDE was filled with strips of wood and mishmash to the inside level of the deck molding. This made bolting the standup toerail a little easier and arguably stronger.
    When I violated the old toerails I already had sufficient 'backup' for glueing in the scupper liners.
    Hope this helps.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________
    *fairing compound. You can make your own or buy West System's 407 powdered fairing compound. They also have a 410 fairing material, don't use that. The 407 is a structural formula of fumed silica and phenolic microspheres. When mixed into two-part laminating epoxy it looks like a chocolate brownie mix. Mix into any brand two-part epoxy. Sets hard but is fairly easy to sand and fairs to feather edge. It will withstand a hot deck and can be used below the waterline.
    Won't say I'm in the business of recommending, but the 407 is the ONLY PRODUCT of West System's that I will use.
    [MSDS for Malaysian phenoset microspheres admits to trace amounts formaldehybe.] Dust mask.
    Last edited by ebb; 03-09-2011 at 11:37 PM.

  11. #371
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Orinda, California
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    2,252
    The following photos follow up on the above scupper discussion.

    #1 shows a cast bronze quarter plate for a split back stay. Note that the toe rail gutter is originally and still open at the stern.

    # 2 shows the port bronze chain plates. They are tilted to the angle of each shrouds. Fastenings are 1/2" strut bolts.

    #3 shows a port scupper. Note that the scupper slants aft. Scuppers are a separate liner that is glued in place.

    #4 shows the three scuppers on the port side. The wood rail closes off the top of these openings. Not made for leading rope.
    Attached Images        

  12. #372
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    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
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    Thanks Bill!!!!

    w e l l . . . . . .
    What led to such chunky rails was making a wide allowance for the big hole in the top for the 3/8" hex bolt, washer and socket wrench. So while I went with 1 1/2" to cover the molded toerail I thought couldn't chamfer much more than leaving an inch width on top. There's a full inch for the long bolts up front but that inch widens as the rail height gets shorter as it goes toward the stern.
    Rails were to be rounded. Allowance for that also widened the top because you don't want to round in way of the bung holes.

    Don't know why but when I spied down the newly installed rail from stem to stern
    a HUMP appeared in what should have been a deadflat LochNess shot. It wasn't a true monster because the old jack plane only took a few shaves to get it straight.
    But then I took to measuring port and starboard sides to get them absolutely the same.
    You know, measuring the sides at one foot intervals along the whole tapering rail
    The rail is about 4" tall at the bow and about 2" at the transom.
    Then I thought a TINY TINY bit of curve in the rail sheer would look sexy.
    And it only took a few shaves.
    But both sides HAD to be the same.....
    So before I woke up they was shaved down to the bronze carriage bolt tops. A half dozen bungs on each side now were reduced to paper-thin disks that wafted out of the holes. Ahh mean STUPID!

    So now I've got to put a cap on the rail to cover my excesses.
    Already got most of a thin cap rail milled out of IPE which I won't varnish OR oil. Just another damn consequence...
    Very well might paint the new toerails
    so I won't have them always nagging at me.


    #1) The backstay quarter plate is extra long because the transom was going to be dolled up with a fancy log of varnished mahogany.
    But I'll forgo that I think because now I can SEE the error of putting any more weight where the hell you don't want it.

    Really GOOFED on the rails. It looks to the eye that the rail leans outward.
    I thought I switched port and starboard when the rails were straight before mounting.
    But it is a problem that becaime more evident as the truncated rails were sprung into place, bolted and tightened up. You don't know how hard it was to bend those suckers.
    I could hire a WOODWORKER to pare back the outside of the rail - in place. Straightening up the apparent lean would make the top less wide AND make it easier to fit a narrower cupped caprail. Don't trust myself.
    There is also the consideration that the outer surface of the rails are now IN TENSION from springing them and may not like to be shaved. Grain might want to pop loose, dunno. Seen it happen.
    Can't afford to hire. And if I put on a IPE rubrail and PAINT the toerail another color besides white.....
    the problem will go away! Yeah right!

    #3 & #4) Notice in the scupper shots that the toerail wood and the toerail plastic show a higher seam than where the deck to hull seam used to be! About an inch and a half below.
    That old seam has disappeared (we hope). At least I don't see it there anymore under the Awlglitz. Note that pricelss sweep only the painter sees on the inside of the scuppers. Like that stuff!
    Untreated IPE for the rubrail here.
    Everything is bedded with butyl.


    Want critque PLEASE. I'm not here with thumbs in my armpits wiggling my fingers.
    "Ebb, you take that stoopid rail off the boat. How many pounds you got out there?
    Fill in those nasty scupper thingies too... you'd be sailing by now if you didn't mess around with all this dumb sh........"
    Last edited by ebb; 06-23-2011 at 11:44 AM.

  13. #373
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    467
    Nice work Ebb.

    How about a long genoa track on top of the toerail? It could go from the shrouds to the transom. Nice for when you are drifting through the doldrums and you're flying everything including your nightshirt.

    You might not need to put a cap on the entire length of the toerail. Or how about a bronze striker plate as a cap.

    Being able to mount stanchions tubes against the toerail is a big plus.

    What about your anchor chocks? Such great choices when you have a toerail.

    Ben

  14. #374
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    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
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    Ben, You are absolutely right on about not having to cap the whole length of the rail.
    I didn't SEE that until you mentioned it. But niow it's mine!
    I screwed up the front third of the rails. so a wooden cap could be applied from the front to the chainplates.
    The chain plates cut into the rail. I feel I have to cap that area of the rail but I will wait until the mast is rigged to see where the plates end up.

    Might fatten the rail up where the three plates dig in and make up a wider cap to dress it.
    So the capping could end there. Aft of that could have T-bar for the gennies.

    Need help with that. I've read discussions where choices are mentioned:
    Track on the rail.
    Track on deck beside the rail.
    Track curved.
    Track straight.
    Track on the deck by the cabin.
    Track at a slant pointing at the stemhead.

    These tracks will take tremendous loads and have to be in the right place.
    It will be a PITA to nut the bolts in the aft part of the boat. Smoke and mirrors.


    I've salivated for years at Herreschoff inspired inrail hardware. Especially dapped in mid rail chocks for leading the spring lines. Or skene chocks at the bow and stern.
    There's no way around it, I'd have to make models of what I believe is correct for leading lines off the boat. - with the idea of getting them cast. The bronze in-rail chock I've seen has sharp edges.
    Catalog skene chocks are completely stupid to me unless the warp is led from directly ahead.

    And ofcourse lines at the bow come aboard at all angles. Even Davies chocks (see the catalog at greenboatstuff) and chock/cleats are not correct imco. All this hardware available has hard abrupt edges that will saw through nylon in a blow.
    The only bronze skenes I've seen that Litlgull could wear are the ones Tim Lackey has on his Triton 381. Aren't available anymore.
    Have to see this stuff from the chaffing gear point of view and the illogical angles that rope comes aboard a boat.
    The position of chocks on our rounded transom also presents a potential chaffing problem because of cleat location. Could use skenes here but you'd immediately have 'sharp' edge problems.
    Some of the original Pearson cast aluminum cleats (chocks?) have a nice plump character and might be translated to hollow bronze castings with soft corners.... Dreamer.
    Last edited by ebb; 03-11-2011 at 09:03 AM.

  15. #375
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Northern MN
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    1,099
    Man, she's a looker, Ebb. Thank you Bill for adding these pics and thanks Ebb for the explanations. If I remember I milled our mahogany down to 2 3/4" high. It's been a few years ago and I can't say for sure but I know I didn't have the guts to go 4 inches. I probably should have though it looks right to my eye. I was planning on running the lead tracks on top of the rail starting from 14"-18" aft of the midship chocks back 6 feet as that is the length of the tracks I have (again, if I recall correctly). I worry incessantly about the stress but everyone has told me if you use the proper sized screws to mount the tracks it won't come off unless you're doing something stupid. Which I may do. I'm thinking lot o' bedding to ward off rot.

    I got six bronze rail chocks years ago in anticipation of finishing her earlier. Yeah, we all know how that is turning out. I'm hoping the rail doesn't 'spring apart' when we start cutting into it to mount the chocks! I got the C232BP's.
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by Tony G; 03-11-2011 at 11:52 AM.
    My home has a keel.

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