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Thread: outboard well plug....

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Posts
    101

    Check Valve

    Ebb, I suppose if using the outboard hole as a large scupper one could put a large flapper valve in the small access behind the rudder post to prevent back flow. Do you think back flow would be a problem in heavy following seas? I had a Cal 20 with the outboard well in the floor of the cockpit and always expected more slosh than I ever really got. Funny story about that Cal 20 if anybody is interested.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,621

    Torgeedo OB

    Hope you did see what 'we' have on electric OB motors.
    Not only pricey motors like the Torgeedo but also inboard home built electric.

    Looks like Harbor 20 Torgeedo is lifted in and out of its mount,
    held in place by a sort of bent pipe or tube that obviously also protects the cord.
    Torgeedo is also available with its own battery on top of the unit.

    Something like this might be adaptable for a stern mount on Ariel/Commander.

    To push an Ariel you'd probably need their newest more powerful machine
    that comes at a very powerful price.
    .................................................. .................................................. ........................
    Capt Craig. A flapper valve in the well sounds like a great idea!
    You'd have it fitted in the lid. Now that I think about it..... a duckbill 'valve'
    like the ones used in heads would be pretty simple to experiment with.
    Water pressure from inside would funnel the water out - but any dollops wanting in
    would close the more or less limp 'bills' of the opening.

    How about two sheets of rubber one on top of the other (for starters).
    The bottom piece is the bendy one that with inside water pressure will bend open.
    It wouldn't have to be much of an opening imco to let a lot of water out.
    I see it as a wide slit in the material.
    The rubber sheet on top is stiffer but still somewhat pliable, to be able to
    withstand the shock of possible incoming water, which closes the bendy sheet
    against the thicker one.
    The slit opening in the lower sheet is offset from the opening in the heavy sheet.

    Of course the well itself has to spend some time out of the water stream
    to allow water weight inside the well to bend open the lower sheet
    - because persistant outside water pressure would not allow drainage.
    Idea is like a powerboat transom flapper valve.
    The sheet idea might allow the concept to work horizontally.

    Needs research and $$$ and time.
    Sheet rubber from McMasterCarr.
    The OB well RUBBA-DUMPA might be a separate alternative lid.

    Or designed something like an access-plate that inserts into a prepared hole in the well lid.
    [OK, now, let's talk about marketing this baby!!!]
    Last edited by ebb; 02-26-2013 at 09:06 AM.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Posts
    101

    rubba-dumpa

    I don't care what the design is as long as we can call it a Rubba-Dumpa (LOL) I read your post on patents and that is so true, My buddy and I tried to get a patent and after about 10k wasted and realizing that vendors insurance was going to cost 20k we gave up. I actually saw one of the Harbor 20 designs up close and demonstrated. The bent tube was on a hinge and the whole thing swung up and over the side 270 degrees right out of the lazerette. I was pretty impressed. I did see the electric conversion photos (inboard) and the two boats with side saddle type setups. I hope to take A157 on some blue water and think maybe the motor well might be better for wet storage rode, fenders, ect., for now anyway considering how much an electric conversion cost. A157 has a 9.9 setup and after reading the post about wieght I think that I'll be inclined to remove it. Then if I miss the outboard I can just put a lighter one back in.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Orinda, California
    Posts
    2,311

    Post Some history

    Last edited by Bill; 02-26-2013 at 03:56 PM. Reason: Edit URL

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Posts
    101

    Thanks for the Voyage posts

    Thank you Bill for the post on those voyages, I'll soak it up when I get home from work tonight. I think there is also a guy local to my area that sailed trans-atlantic or tanspac on a Pearson of smaller size, Triton or Ariel not sure. I already have people trying to talk me out of it. I've been dreaming about it since I was 16, hope I'm not too old at 53. Joshua Slocum left when he was 50+, of course he is(was) twenty times the sailor I am.
    P.S. a couple of those came up blank

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Orinda, California
    Posts
    2,311

    Edited

    Quote Originally Posted by captcraig View Post
    P.S. a couple of those came up blank
    Edited & now all active. Added link a to the thread "Passages on Ariels?" where this discussion may get moved

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Posts
    101
    Thank you Bill for sharing Erics voyage. As I read I was very impressed with how bright he was. Was moved when I saw that he had passed away and realized that I had just read something sacred. I would be honored to use some of his good ideas on my boat.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Aptos, CA
    Posts
    46

    Plug in the Lazarette

    This may seem a bit heretical, but after sailing "Sinbin" upwind from Angel Island to Fortman Basin against a front, I decided I was sick of bailing. So, we sealed the plug with Sika flex, beefed up the transom from the inside with glass and plywood backing plates, bought an outboard bracket from West, and hung the outboard off the transom. That was in 1995. Three outboards and a standing rigging later, "Sinbin's" transom is still intact. Down below, she is dry as a bone.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Orinda, California
    Posts
    2,311

    Thumbs down

    Sinbin has been very lucky. In the early 1980's we almost lost an Ariel in the South Bay because of a transom mounted outboard. Nasty, choppy seas down there at times in the afternoon. I'll see if the article still exists in our files.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Aptos, CA
    Posts
    46

    Plug

    Thank you. "Sinbin" has been a lucky boat in more ways than one. Maybe it's the repetition of letters in her name. I am contrite, and the plug is very useable for the next owner.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Forsyth GA
    Posts
    396
    Thanks Tony,,,, Let me know when you will need my address!!!!!!

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    9
    I must agree... the search engine on this site is frustrating at the very least, and while no offense is intended to the folks at the top... we love our boats, and this home site-(thank you very much!) ... is there no better search option available? I'm on lots of different sites, and NONE of them have the problems this one causes.
    Commander 229 Ol' Blew

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,621

    Lightbulb Rubba Dumpa - not so silly

    A338 no longer has an OB well that has an original type lid.
    For those of you that have this feature, including those with an inboard,
    imco it is very possible that a oneway rubber valve could be worked into the lid/hatch cover.

    Not my idea to use a duckbill valve to vacate water from a boat.
    CRMarine has a small (1") duckbill (actually more like ducktail valve) for draining boats while underway.
    Mixed reviews. Looks to me like the valve is just too small.

    DUCKBILL CHECK VALVE
    OK, go to www.general-rubber.com and take a look at their Flex-Valve 4200 Flanged.
    And the 4100 Slip-on that can be hose clamped to pipe.

    Valve comes in sizes from 1/2" to 48".....yes, FOUR FEET ! Might find something that would fit thru
    the well hatch. I think we're looking for a not your normal everyday valve.
    Can see a useful dump valve around 4" - 5" - 6" larger or smaller.....(haven't done the valve volume math.)
    Depends on whether you see the OB well as a primary exit for automatic transfer whole cockpit draining.
    Getting rid of tons of water quickly is something a cruiser might be thinking about.

    Have not seen or held these particular valves. The color data sheet makes the valve's proportion look right, imco.
    They are designed to open with very little pressure - which is what we want.
    And to work against seawater backflow they'd probably have to be somewhat pliable and stay closed easily.
    Come in many natural & synthetic rubbers, I like EPDM or Hypalon.
    If you design any part of a dump system that has the rubber duckbill underwater,
    would guess you want to keep marine growth at bay. EPDM can't be painted, but airboat antifouling is available.
    Good thing about mounting one or two of these things in a lid, is that you can access them for
    inspection and maintenance. EPDM would require almost no maintenance. Maybe Lanocote like they do propellers.

    Smaller flex-valves might be good for any exit out the hull. Unsightly, but since
    rubber duckbills do an important job simply and maybe cheaply, they might become fashionable!
    Sorry, haven't priced them.
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...............
    KICKER-SLICKER
    Seems to me, if we have an OB in the motor well, we might find just the right sized duckbill for the WHOLE OB
    lower section and propeller (12"?) to fit thru into the water. And when retrieved - by merely pulling the motor
    back up thru the gland - it would close and nicely keep water out of the laz.
    And still be available for sudden evacuation events !
    Maybe add a modified circular Prop-Gard around the blades to get the OB to ease back up?
    [Larger sized sleeve valves get very heavy, so while the idea is interesting at least to me, it's not feasible....yet.]
    Last edited by ebb; 04-02-2013 at 07:18 AM.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Posts
    101
    Dang, just wrote a long comment and lost it. I'll check the General rubber site, sounds interesting. A157 should be home (OKC) soon, snows a melting in N. MI.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Posts
    101

    General Rubber

    That folded bill check looks like something that might work.

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