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Thread: Outboard Discussions

  1. #241
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,584
    Scott, think your 6hp is about right -- right at the limit for weight aft of the rudder.
    Yamaha 110lbs for an 8-4 became ridiculous for me to stomach, Just looked up
    Honda OBs and found a 15 at 104lbs. Maybe you can HP-up to an 8 and keep
    the weight the same with a modern motor $3400.

    I can't deal with petro smells anymore. Kerosene, diesel, gasoline, strong solvents
    like toluene acetone are out. Still grudgingly use naptha for decal/tape removal
    but non-toxics are appearing. And I use a tiny amount to thin 2-part liquid epoxy
    as a first coat sealer. Fossil fuel days are numbered. Expensive high labor lithium
    must be on their way out. They're almost fossils by now, we need an efficient, less
    labor intensive battery that will last for 20 years. Somebody is working on it!

  2. #242
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,584
    Second try here. Abrupt erase again, This time itmwasn'y my computer.

    Bill, you may hve some kind of time limit set up on posting. It takes me

    a l;ongn time to type. You must have a 'clearing' time limit where if a

    certain function doesn't happen, like finishing a post and saving it, the

    window will automatically clear the window.

    I believe this is a sign from a superior force. To hell with it..

  3. #243
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Orinda, California
    Posts
    2,293
    Ebb, we have no time-outs, so it's probably your local network again.

  4. #244
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,584
    Tech was just here, says it's all my fault. (Refer Above)


    EPROPULSION VS TORQEEDO
    Electric OB motors. Anybody REALLY interested?? I want and need lithium

    batteries, instead of lead/acid.. Anybody tell you that Torqeedo batteries are

    LiNMC, lithium, nickel, manganese, cobalt. Same type that Tesla uses. And I

    have just been made aware of this. [see Yachting World,October 2020,

    "Lithium boat batteries: Why now is the right time to upgrade your electrics"]


    So while I never understood why Torqeedo couldn't produce a descent

    electric OB for a 26' sailboat, they were in the forefront as far as batteries.

    Tesla batteries have to be replaced after 125,000 miles. Obviously innovation

    will occur in this industry, in fact the word is: 3 companies are working on a

    battery good for a million miles!! (YachtingWorld).


    After I sold the Yamaha 8-4, grudgingly went with T's peeked Cruise4. Never

    committed. Then one day found epropulsion. They had only 3 electric OBs.

    One called Navy 6.0 with a 9.9HP rating. It had the motor under the cowl up

    top. Not in the water with the prop like Torqeedo. Researched. They seemed

    to have covered everything and done everything right. The OB looked great.

    Contacted the seller, study their website and the Manual. A little time goes by.

    I get on an obvious more current page, and I'm looking at a Torqeedo.


    But it isn't. It's the new Navy 6.0 2021 model. with a bulbous swelling in front

    of the propeller. So I call up the guy and he says, "Oh, that's the new model for

    2021", like I shoulduv known. So now we have two electric motors that can be

    minutely compared. It is as if epropulsion has consciously designed the outboard

    that Toqeedo forgot. (Who thot this was a niche market? And there is a huge

    wad of money needed for redesigning, reengineering, recasting a new Navy6.0 )

    The whole OB is bigger, not built on the troller Cruise frame. While it looks similar,

    2021 Navy 6.0. looks, at least from this computer, more like a real OB. I think it

    weighs in 65lb, almost like a 2stroke. But there is something very different:


    Torqeedo has spent their R&D time developing a DEEPBLUE line of batteries for

    their speed boat platform. BMW has a small Euro electric vehicle whose battery, I

    believe was developed by Torqeedo. Could say the crossover is old news. We're

    still on the way of a truly useful, less price punishing, battery for the sailboat crowd.

    When we look at a marina, hardly anybody is sailing. Every boat has a fossil-fuel

    engine, their day is overdue for an electric makeover.. Batteries haven't quite

    caught up yet. I want one for my 2003 Honda Element!!!


    Stop for now. If you're interested at all in electric OBs and lithium bats, the Yachting

    World article is a good read!
    Last edited by ebb; 01-06-2021 at 02:52 PM.

  5. #245
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Winyah Bay, SC
    Posts
    594
    Within the past month or two I saw some reference (seems like it was an Ariel related place...?) to a motor like the Honda/saildrive-enstein, but it was made back in the late 60's/early 70's, used an Evinrude 2 stroke on the top end. Sailing Uma on YouTube have fitted an electric motor with a saildrive type unit, it was/is manufactured that way - and I imagine more pricey than even a well-kitted Ariel without one would be.
    I'm selling my Merc 6hp 4strk to a fellow who needs to get a Catalina 30 down to Florida. A friend was given for free a Yamaha 4hp 4strk longshaft earlier this year; he in turn gave it to me. Great friend! (Note to self: get him a good Xmas present...) It's an older model, he was told it had been barely used. When I went to service it the oil was still golden in color, so I think it has been run less than an hour. I'm gonna give it a break-in treatment, and it'll become Katie's aux. The 6hp worked fine up until 20+ kts wind, I think the 4hp will work for someone like me who likes the idea of motorlessness but it too chicken****e to actually go that way. And the long-term dependability of Yamahas in saltwater environs is not a factor to be overlooked.
    One note on the Yam 4's - of all the years they were made, it seems, there were but 2 years when a carb swap could turn them into a 6hp motor.
    Mine is one of those two years, that's the only 'bad' thing about it.
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  6. #246
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,584
    EPROPULSION IS CRIPPLED ON THE USA INTERNET

    selling and buying is a major activity on the net.
    EPROPULSION GETS A FAILING GRADE from ebb ON HOW THEIR PRODUCTS
    ARE REPRESENTED on the net and by their vendors.

    Now, I've read that epropulsion is the invention of two HongKong University
    entrepreneurs.
    I don't know what their mission statement is. There seems to be a Torqeedo
    connection, and a we can do it better attitude. These small electric outboards
    are in a class by themselves. And I'm surprised that there is a competitor out
    there that believes there's money to be made in this tight niche market. As I've
    said, it's remarkable that an OB already established will suddenly unannounced
    completely revamp their main product, the Navy 6.0. The reason was: to make
    a better product, to improve not cheapen it. I mean, what else?

    The older model had a right angle gear 'box' just before the prop that may have
    been a problem -- because that is what they changed by putting the motor in
    front of the prop. (like Torqeedo has always had it.)
    But with a more versatile and powerful motor, that can both push an 'up to six
    ton(!)' sailboat and plane an airboat. Conceptually superior, we are led to believe.
    epropulsion makes three electric OBs: a 1.0 (Spirit)3hp - a 3.0 6hp - 6.0 9.9hp.
    Navy.. Which they developed first.

    The internet sites are sticky, unresponsive, hypish and almost useless. While
    some thumbnails of the OB show the new Navy 6.0, last year's is prominent.

    Torqeedo and Elco show up uninvited, but the only actual vendor: RJ Nautical
    is all over the place. The 'other' vendor (FourSeas) is nowhere to be found, is
    it because they aren't in the payola deal with google? No, it's just that they all
    seem to use the same incompetent epropulsion feed. The problem is they all
    repeat the same epropulsion hype, so user unfriendly it's more like an enigma.

    No one's corrected it since I've been around, and my brief association with sales
    at FourSeas has been disappointing. No one seems to care that the web presence
    of epropulsion is totally useless, negative and unavailable, download is blocked.
    WHY the hell why? You would think this would rub off on the product. The shine
    is gone for me. Have not found a credible home address to write or phone.

    [ Years ago now, I looked into Elco's line of electric OBs. Looked promising. Called
    sales and the guy could not go into depth about the OBs, it was like he was
    reading from notes. Then I looked at their design. I had already discovered
    Parsun OBs, They are Chinese and make every kind of OB including electric, every
    fishing boat in the orient is powered by Parsun. On the face of it, we'd think the
    motors were foolproof and reliable. AND indeed, that's what Elco was selling, on
    the blind face of it, as their own. PARSUN has no viable USA vendor, At that time.. ..
    The point is, if you are going to flog your product in the US, you better iron out
    all the kinks that turn customers off. Including untrained uninformed unenthusiastic
    vendors. Incomplete specs, missing diagrams, nodownload copyrighted websites. ]

    They have an accessible 50page Manual to study. An electric motor has no hoses,
    exhaust, smell, oil, gasoline -- but an electric OB has a finicky and hugely expensive
    dedicated battery system that has many must do's, should do's, don't do's and hoo
    doo's required to keep the system happy in a salt environment.
    Can't find anybody who has cruised with a Navy 6.0.* Epropulsion is 8 years old.
    It should be further along with a kind of marketing friendliness that would reduce
    meaningless hype and add transparency and owner or 3rd party detail, like a mag
    article, or literate YouTube.
    [*nor, for that matter, are there reports of anysailor using a Torqeedo Cruise 4 as
    an auxiliary for cruising..]

    Advertised as quiet, visited a YouTube farm, where one guy wound-up his Navy6.0
    to a definite loud whine. An unpleasant mechanical noise I wouldn't like at a lower
    rpms either.. something that needs hearing before buying. Prop noise has to be
    louder than motor noise. And near silent when required.
    Last edited by ebb; 01-06-2021 at 03:19 PM. Reason: No, it appars

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