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Thread: Outboard Discussions

  1. #226
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Aptos, CA
    Posts
    45

    2 Cycle Mix Snafu

    Here's one for the books. Being the world's worst mechanic, I have been having my 2 stroke outboards professionally maintained according to the book since the late 80's. So, I was completely baffled when my motor died in the harbor after a day sail. After having rowed into the berth, I said the hell with sailing until the next day, when I replaced the plug and the engine fired right up. Unfortunately, I cross threaded the plug and screwed up the cylinder head. The plug that fouled was not stock, so I accused the mechanic of installing a cold plug. He told me it was a hot plug, and I had mixed my gas wrong. I said no way, since I had been mixing 2 stroke gas for over 20 years. Well he replaced the head, and I put that motor in the garage (I have 2), firing it up every 2 weeks.
    4 starts later, the plug fouled. WTF! The recommended plug was in there - maybe the mechanic had a point.
    So the question is what is a 50 to one mix? It consists of one ounce of oil to fifty of gas i.e. about 2.5 oz oil per gallon. However, I had an unopened bottle of Quicksilver brand outboard motor and an open bottle of West Marine"s oil on which I couldn't read the label. The Quicksilver label says for 50 to one, mix 3 oz per gallon. I followed the instructions and mixed 3 oz of West's oil into my gas and wound up with 2 fouled plugs. So, if you have a 2 stroke, be aware. The mechanic was right and I owe him an apology. 50 to 1 is 50 to 1 and I won't be using the Quicksilver brand again. Furthermore, if I seem confused, it's probably because I used to have a 100 to 1 mix Johnson.

  2. #227
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Macatawa Michigan
    Posts
    17

    New outboard motor

    Do any of the 9.9 4 stroke outboard's fit into a 1966 commander motor box?. Need a new motor and they all look VERY large need help

  3. #228
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Orinda, California
    Posts
    2,306
    The 6 hp 4-stroke is a large as the space allows. And, 6 hp is adequate. Did you read the Outboard Discussions thread above?

  4. #229
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    723
    Quote Originally Posted by westwind View Post
    Do any of the 9.9 4 stroke outboard's fit into a 1966 commander motor box?. Need a new motor and they all look VERY large need help
    As bill said, the outboard motor thread has a lot good info. The 9.9 four strokes don't fit without some serious modification. Even if they did fit, you don't want one due to the weight.... These boats really squat by the stern with anything more the 50 or 60 pounds in the stern....


    s/v 'Faith'

    1964 Ariel #226
    Link to our travels on Sailfar.net

  5. #230
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Macatawa Michigan
    Posts
    17
    I did look at the search box, but was hoping a new small 4 stroke was out there. I'll look at the 6hp long shaft by merc Does the motor work with a good wind?

  6. #231
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Orinda, California
    Posts
    2,306
    Quote Originally Posted by westwind View Post
    I did look at the search box, but was hoping a new small 4 stroke was out there. I'll look at the 6hp long shaft by merc Does the motor work with a good wind?
    See the discussion about wind & tide with the 6 hp in the Outboard thread

  7. #232
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Aptos, CA
    Posts
    45

    Outboard

    You might want to check with Amber Marine in Costa Mesa. He has an inventory of reconditioned 2 stroke motors. He sold me an "85 Evinrude 6 which runs like a clock.

  8. #233
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Macatawa Michigan
    Posts
    17
    i was talking to my dad about a motor and he said why dont you take the 15hp johnson 1984 long shaft from under the stairs.....WHAT...... i forgot all about it. very little use and not used since 1988. and it weights 18lbs less than my current 1987 9.9 yachtwin. Sent it in for a carb clean and look over, purrs like a kitten. Now what prop do i get? need help on that. Lake macatawa, lake michigan sailing. Not big on going out in high knots yet

  9. #234
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sunnyvale, CA
    Posts
    104
    The 6 pitch prop on my 6 HP Nissan works fine. It'll push my Ariel at 3 knots into a 20 knot wind (with ocean swells).

  10. #235
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sunnyvale, CA
    Posts
    104
    P.S. Be careful with that 15 HP engine. It's about twice the power you need for anything but head on steaming into a gale. If you run it full throttle in calm conditions, keep an eye on the stern, and when the stern becomes submerged to the point your backstay chainplate is in the water, back off on the power. I suppose it's self limiting to the extent that the outboard powerhead will become submerged and the engine will aspirate water before you sink the boat.

  11. #236
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Macatawa Michigan
    Posts
    17
    Thanks i know 15hp is too much but its free and will get me through the remainder of then season. I will more likely get the nissan in the spring

  12. #237
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sunnyvale, CA
    Posts
    104
    You can't beat that price! And it'll be happy running well below full throttle.

  13. #238
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,613

    CA.GOV Division of Boating and Waterways

    [the following is a quote:]

    Two-Stroke Vessel Engines
    Facts About Two-Stroke Vessel Engines

    Two-stroke engines are not "banned" for use on all waterways in California, nor is there any plan to do so.
    Carbureted and electronic-injection two-stroke engines are considered high-emission engines. Generally, these engines were manufactured prior to 1999.
    A carburated two-stroke engine can emit up to 25-30% of its fuel unburned into the water or atmosphere, which is why high-emission engines are prohibited on some lakes.
    There is no salt-water or river restrictions in California on high-emission two-stroke engines, excluding personal watercraft (vessels such as Jet Skies) bans in some aereas. For example, San Francisco has prohibited personal watrecfart within 1200 feet of its shoreline. See "Local Restrictions" on our web page for a list of lakes.
    Direct injection two-stroke engines, made since 1999, are considered clean emission engines and can be used on every body of water in California, with some exceptions not related to emission limits.
    A new direct injection two-stroke engine will normally have a label sticker (with 1 to 3 stars) on its engine cover indicating that it meets California Air Resources Board emission regulations for 2001, 2004, and 2008 for vessel engine manufacture.

    >Excplanation Of Two-Stroke Vessel Engine Regulations And Restrictions<
    >Two-Stroke FAQ<
    >Local Restrictions - Reservoirs that restrict two-stroke engines<

    Copyright (O) 2013 State of California

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,
    I don't believe, haven't researched, obviously could be wrong...
    that any "portable" outboard by any manufacturer has
    DIRECT INJECTION.



    WANTED:

    Post1999 Yamaha 8CMHL 2-stroke, 2-cylinder, 8hp, 22.2in long shaft, 50:1 pre-mix
    Electric Start (pull option?) Manual Trim & Tilt. Alternator 12V-6Amp (80W)
    Dry Weight 62lb

    (anybody got one?
    Trade straight across for my 12yr old never in the water-unused, high thrust 2-star 8hp, long staft 4-stroke ........
    no shipping, it's in San Rafael.)
    Last edited by ebb; 08-18-2013 at 10:44 AM.

  14. #239
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,613
    Scott, like chat with the professor - other readers either have the patience

    (or not enuf patience) to read our dichotomies. Traditional Ariels will digest

    your description of the back end of the cockpit and OB well clamping plate.


    Ebb's whimsey is that a hutch (for lack of a better word) was built over the

    lazaret, covering the huge opening and equipped with a slightly smaller

    hinged hatch -- meant to hang a Yamaha 8-4 OB. I had to roll the 110lb

    motor around just to position it and arrange a tackle just to lift it over the

    coaming.

    I sold the gaseous monster and removed $$$ from my retirement fund and

    told green self it was past time to go electric. Little knowing what a nest of

    vipers I'd be unleashing.



    REALITY CHECK

    Thought long and hard about taking green water over the stern. I could

    create drop boards for the hutch, they may be useful to lock up the electric

    OB when away from the boat. Now that I think of it, a piece of 3/8"

    meranti would be light and perfect. Of course, heavy boots could kick it in.


    But when cruising I'll have the way open and the OB well open also. Any

    heavy water will have a huge scupper to empty the cockpit. I have been

    aware from the beginning that water entering an Ariel can easily sink it.

    [Salt water weighs 64lb cube foot. Cockpit full of water up to the bridge

    = 750lbs, 1/2 a ton up to the step-over in the c'way.

    How high will the water get inside the boat to bring the sheer level with

    the stormy sea. Don't know that anybody has figured that out. Not much,

    maybe a ton? Nor what kind of pump we'd use to remove it. Or even if

    it was possible to move any water out at all! And if I thought to save my

    life, what's my life-saving device going to be, with havoc all round, will

    I even be able to board it. Currently my tender is a 10ft inflatable canoe!


    Alberg drew our hulls to the MORC rule (Midget Ocean Racer Cruiser)

    Their slightly extra breadth makes for a very sexy hull, and puts the Ariel/

    Commanders at the dawn of wider modern craft. And as delivered from

    the Pearson factory, in no way an ocean ready vessel.


    And there's another little thing. My well and the cockpit scuppers inches

    away from the waterline -- if there's water already in the boat, they won't

    drain with much gusto.. They're already holes in our hull. Companionway?

    Deck hatches, our large port/windows. Underwater valves.. Take care!
    Last edited by ebb; 12-05-2020 at 11:07 PM.

  15. #240
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Santa Cruz, California
    Posts
    459
    Ebb,

    I saw a product a few years back at a boat show. The inventor had combined a 12 hp Honda outboard with a Sail Drive lower unit that necessarily included a gasket to block water entrance. The height and over all size of the unit made it look like it might just fit into an Ariel Lazarette locker. Perhaps that installation might have required raising the hatch somewhat, but not to the degree that construction of a "hutch" would be required. The Honda 12 horse OB motor would drive the Ariel at hull speed for sure, but the device would have placed a lot of weight at the aft end of the boat. I don't know if the device ever went into production, but I never saw another one after the first one I saw at that boat show. It seemed like it might work though to keep the water out of the OB well, and with a device of that sort, one would not have to worry about pulling and flushing the OB after using the boat in salt water. Anyway, I thought it had some potential. No reason someone could not do that with an electric motor was well I suppose. By the way, my motor is a Nissan 6 hp and it weights 60 lbs. It drives away boat at 4+ knots in flat water. I use a modified Garhauer lifting davit (as per Myron Spaulding's design as presented in the Ariel Manual.) to lift and lower the motor into and out of the well and to remove the motor from the boat for servicing.
    Scott

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