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Thread: Outboard Discussions

  1. #166
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Posts
    95
    Marty:

    15" is short 20" is long and 25" is extra long. I think that the 20" would be fine in most situations. At least situations that I would find myself out in a 26 foot boat!


    Andrew

  2. #167
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cape Cod, MA
    Posts
    8
    Thanks Andrew, that's what I thought.

  3. #168
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Newton and Oak Bluffs, Massachusetts
    Posts
    26
    Marty -

    Sorry for my mistakes regarding the length of the "long shaft" and the availablility of an alternator.

    My Nissan 6 HP 4 Stroke came with the 20" "long" shaft and an 8 x 8 prop. It works well and doesn't cavitate. In 2005, it cost $1265.00 from Hawthorne Cove Marina in Salem. I also purchased the vertical start option part #369B059110 & #3b2059120 for $75.

    Other options available included a 8"x7" prop for $50.00 and and alternator
    $178 for + $140.00 installation.
    MRH

  4. #169
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cape Cod, MA
    Posts
    8
    Excellent MRH. Thanks for the information. I'll have to look into Hawthorne's.

    Marty

  5. #170
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Newton and Oak Bluffs, Massachusetts
    Posts
    26
    Marty FYI:

    Providence Craigslist listing for Nissan 6hp:
    Nissan 6hp 4 Stroke Outboard - 10 hours - $1000

    Reply to: sale-294925245@craigslist.org
    Date: 2007-03-16, 9:18AM EDT

    Bought 3 years ago and used only about 10 hours on a sail boat. We had a baby two years ago and sold the sail boat and went to power. Motor was used one season and then it was serviced by the dealer and has not been used since - stored indoors. Motor has the long shaft (20") and runs like a top. Exhaust through prop, quiet, starts on first pull and hums like a sewing machine. This motor lists for near $1,600.00 - get it now before the season heats up.


    Location: Bristol
    it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

    PostingID: 294925245
    MRH

  6. #171
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cape Cod, MA
    Posts
    8
    Thanks for the tip, MRH. I sent the seller an email.
    If it has an alternator and vertical start option it will be perfect.

  7. #172
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Conshohocken, PA
    Posts
    109

    vertical pull adaptor for Nissan 6

    Has anyone put one of these things on? I ordered the adaptor kit from Online Outboards.com It doesn't look as though it will fit in the well because it extends beyond the engine cowling about 2".

    No directions came with the parts.

  8. #173
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    290
    I put one on my boat and no problem with the Nissan 6hp (which I have) fitting in the well. OK clearance from the top or from the front side of the well of the standard issue Ariel.
    Kent

  9. #174
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    230
    I had a Nissan 6hp on my ariel and would simply open the lazzerette, turn the engine sideways, and then give it one pull straight out to start. It was simple and it worked so the cord could be pulled at the preferrred angle without chafe. Once it was running, I would turn it back to the correct orientation.

  10. #175
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    290
    See these pics of the vertical pull on my Nissan. The red circle on the second photo shows the two screws that attach the pull to the motor. The piece does not extend as far out from the cover as the bottom handle does (see in first pic)
    Attached Images    
    Kent

  11. #176
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Conshohocken, PA
    Posts
    109

    Thanks!

    Thanks for the pictures, Kent. I see how it goes on now. It looks like it should fit. I was going to send it back ... but I was told that they wouldn't accept returns ... Now, it looks as though I will be able to use it ... which was the point of buying it in the first place!

  12. #177
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    San Francisco - or Abroad
    Posts
    430

    Comments on outboard performance - experience so far...

    I have a 2003 NISSAN 6HP, 4-stroke outboard engine with the long shaft (20”) on the Mephisto Cat.

    I’ve used this motor in San Francisco Bay, as well as on the recent coastal voyages from Ensenada, MX, to San Francisco as described in previous posts.

    The typical issues faced with outboards on Ariels & Commanders seem to be the following:

    1.- Will it fit in the outboard well?
    The 6 HP Nissan fits quite nicely in the well being able to rotate pretty much throughout its full range. The lazarette cover closes, clearing the top of the motor by two to three inches.

    The bottom unit is thin & slender reducing hydrodynamic resistance while sailing with the motor in the motor well – which I often do….

    This motor only weighs 55lbs (Per Nissan) which makes it easier to handle. I think that this is the heaviest you can go while still being able to (relatively) easily handle an oddly shaped mass as an outboard motor.

    2.- How much power do I need? (HP)?
    I find that this motor moves the boat quite well. It will cruise at about 4 to 4.5 knots at ¾ throttle, and will reach hull-speed (~6kt) at a bit less than full throttle.

    While sailing in SF bay in the past, where the winds and currents are not to be ignored, I have found the need to use the full power of this motor while fighting a strong current, or while motoring into a marina’s channel with a strong wind on the nose.

    While using the motor during coastal cruising, I found that when faced with strong winds on the nose - and the resulting wind swell - the going gets slow. Mostly because out in the open, the wind swells easily kill your forward momentum.

    In these cases a bit more horsepower might help, but these are unusual circumstances for these boats. AND I would argue that if you find yourself in this situation at that point you’d be MUCH better off sailing off with a reefed main and a storm headsail (or just the storm sail…) as this will improve your ride and likely progress as well, so the benefit of a bigger outboard in these cases may never be enjoyed… while you’d ALWAYS be burdened by the big outboard’s weight.

    However, in my time spent in coastal marinas, such as Marina del Rey / Santa Monica Bay where currents are negligible, I found myself wishing for a little (maybe 2-3 HP at most) two stroke motor that I could pull out in a jiffy… This would be more than enough to get in and out of the marina when the winds were blowing. If I were still in this environment, I’d definitely go with the tiny motor.


    3.- How fast will the boat go?
    6HP will get you to hull speed. There is no need for more power. 20HP will maybe give you hull speed PLUS maybe 1 knot more, PLUS a big bow wave in front of your boat… while using MUCH MORE Fuel. In short, there is no need… (unless, as I described above, you will be ONLY sailing against very strong winds in sheltered waters -with no wind swell. These conditions would allow you to enjoy the extra horsepower to fight the wind, but these conditions are unlikely…)

    4.- Shaft length
    My motor has the 20” long shaft. (Note: For 2009, Nissan is offering a 25” extra-long shaft.)

    I found that the 20” long shaft works really well on these boats. The steepest swells faced were while motor sailing around Point Conception where we saw 8-10 ft ocean swells that were far apart enough to not present a problem (11-14 seconds). Big swells are not a problem for the motor, but when these swells are reflected by the concave coast between Point Conception and Point Arguello, and become 4-5 ft swells coming in opposing directions, plus toss in a 1-2 ft wind swell… All of these combining at random can present a tall chop which can be a challenge.

    Even in these conditions the prop managed to stay in the water but did suck in some surface air for an instant a couple of times as the conditions above combined to produce a steep/deep chop. Note that when the cavitation happened, it was quite unexpected based on the behavior of the boat at the time, and never due to a severe pitch or roll. It was simply a very steep chop resulting from the combined swells.

    The cavitation was only for an instant causing the revs to increase, but only for an instant. I do not think that the motor had time to reach max revs. I do not think that this is an issue based on the amount of time that the motor had to work in these conditions.

    The 25” shaft would provide a bit more of a margin against the above situation, but most of us would not be in this stuff as a matter of routine… (hopefully). The down side of this extra length would only be a small added weight and the 5 extra inches increasing the required storage space.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Rico; 01-13-2009 at 10:51 AM.

  13. #178
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Birmingham, Al
    Posts
    66
    Hey Rico, I too have a Nissan, but I have the 9.8 model. Great motor for my Ariel. It fits my motor well very good...... well it may be a little tight. I just had a lot of work on mine. $320.00 worth! New impeller, water pump, spark plugs, foot oil,etc... and he also found the bolts that hold the bottom drive unit on had corroded so bad that they were barely hanging on. He said I was luck the foot didn't end up in the lake.... (the motor was in salt water for 3 years). He drilled out the corroded bolts.... added new ones.... replaced "O" rings, gaskets, etc. I can't wait till it gets above 30 degrees to hear it start up on the first pull! Well here's hoping anyway!
    I know a smaller motor will probably be ok for the Ariel, but when I was down on the coast of Alabama, Florida, the tides were really strong especially in the months of Jan thru March. And the extra kick sure did help out in a few tight situations.
    mike A-233

  14. #179
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    722
    Bill,

    THis might be a good merger candidate with the other two outboard threads.

    Just a thought


    s/v 'Faith'

    1964 Ariel #226
    Link to our travels on Sailfar.net

  15. #180
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    722

    Unhappy

    Ok,

    I have had my Tohatsu 6hp 4 stroke for a few months now. I hate to say it, but I like the Yamaha 6 hp 2 stroke better.

    I know this is a departure from the consensus. I do like the fuel use of the Tohatsu better, but that is about it.

    The Tohatsu has to come out of the water for anything more then a day or two. The zinc is really really small and erodes fast.

    The Yamaha is a 2 stroke so it has more thrust. I tried the pricey 'thrust prop' for the Tohatsu... it did make it back better, but it dropped the 5.2knot WOT speed to 5.0

    I know, I know, it IS a sailboat. There are times though when cruising that you want hull speed. The opening bridge that opens on the hour that is between you and the anchorage you want.

    I don't think I need more HP, just a better way to get it to the water. My Yamaha did that.

    I would like to try the Yamaha 6hp 4 stroke.. but I doubt it would fit in an Ariel well.

    The Tohatsu that I bought was ~$1450 with the charging option, and I paid another ~$115 for the thrust prop. I am sorry this is not working out for me, but wanted to post to share for others consideration.

    If anyone is looking for a well cared for Tohatsu 6 with the charging option let me know. Also, if anyone has sucessfully mounted a Yamaha 6/8 4 stroke in an A/C well I would like to know of it.

    Finally if anyone comes across a Yamaha 6/8 2 stoke in good shape (20" shaft) I would apprecaite your letting me know.

    Thanks,


    s/v 'Faith'

    1964 Ariel #226
    Link to our travels on Sailfar.net

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