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Thread: Outboard Discussions

  1. #151
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,549

    circa '73 vs circa '63

    Could the difference between the Pearson 26 (PHRF216) and the Pearson Ariel 26 (PHRF261) be explained by Newton's First Law?
    As we see the mass and shape of the Ariel is total different from the Pearson 26.
    A smaller hp OB might well keep the displacement hull going and more managable while the lighter finkeel dinghy style hull will require more horse power and a bigger prop in the same conditions.
    Inertia helps the Ariel punch thru the water in a more steady controlled fashion. While the P26, because of its mass, shape and weight is slowed by each wave, more influenced by wind and water conditions.

    Could this be a reason why Ariel is considered by many to be a better offshore cruiser?
    Last edited by ebb; 01-18-2007 at 09:03 AM.

  2. #152
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Portsmouth, Virginia
    Posts
    142
    ebb...That sounds about right.I did notice that at the dock the wind and waves knock the 26 boat around more than the Commander, a lot more in fact. I have yet to sail the 26 boat and my bother-in-law, Richard, who I bought the boat for has never come down to even see it. I plan on pulling it this spring if Harvey( the owner and manager of the yard gets around to it( here in Harvey world). The boat needs some work: bottom needs cleaned and bottom painted, spreader needs to be replaced (have made one), furler is locked up solid, all lines need to be replaced, inside cushions are being made, could use a new set of sails, rudder seems to be ok for this boat, small cockpit deck is somewhat soft...whew. I have friends and neigbors that I am trying to get interested in forming a sail cub or something for the 26 boat so that the boats will be used and to share expenses. I had a few heath problems that are now almost behind me and I had little time to sail or work on the 26 boat. I would not trade my Commander for anything but the 26 boat has more room and is a better sailing boat in the light/very light winds we have here all Summer along with the heat and humidity.
    Last edited by Robert Lemasters; 01-19-2007 at 09:11 AM.

  3. #153
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Portsmouth, Virginia
    Posts
    142
    Howard...your sailboat looks to be about the same size and shape as an old wooden runabout I had as a kid, it was a great boat, had a 33 hp Scott Atwater outboard engine that was very fast in those days. There is 18 ft bildge keel sailboat here in the yard that belongs to a friend of mine for shallow water.Does your boat have a retractable keel? Looks good and fun.

  4. #154
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Lemasters View Post
    Howard...your sailboat looks to be about the same size and shape as an old wooden runabout I had as a kid, it was a great boat, had a 33 hp Scott Atwater outboard engine that was very fast in those days. There is 18 ft bildge keel sailboat here in the yard that belongs to a friend of mine for shallow water.Does your boat have a retractable keel? Looks good and fun.
    It's a cat. Daggerboards down against the wind and up running away.

  5. #155
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Portsmouth, Virginia
    Posts
    142
    Howard, I can now see that it is a cat, thought it was a mono hull. There is a lot to be said about cats, saw one sailing down the river in good SSW wind the other day and he was flying.
    Last edited by Robert Lemasters; 01-19-2007 at 09:09 AM.

  6. #156
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    722

    Mercury 6hp questions

    My Yamaha is taken apart awaiting a new impeller right now. Had a discussion with another Sailor in my marina today.

    He has a 20" shaft 2006 Merc 6hp 4 stroke. He wants a 25" shaft, and offered to sell me his current motor, which has only been used a couple times.

    Couple questions for the panel

    1). Was the 2006 Mercury 4 stroke still the same as the tomatsu / nissan motor as it had ben in prior years?

    2). What kind of money was it to add the charging coil? I know on my yamaha the flywheel was the same, all that you had to add was the coil... is the mercury the same?

    3). Did you see a REAL fuel savings compared to 2 stroke motors (I have heard some end up throttling the 4 strokes up higher so they loose the gain in fuel economy).

    4). Who has them, and are you happy with them?

    .....and if anyone has any ideas, what is a fair price for a year old motor that has been lightly used?


    s/v 'Faith'

    1964 Ariel #226
    Link to our travels on Sailfar.net

  7. #157
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Posts
    118

    Hi C. Amos

    Yes, Tohatsu / Nissan / Mercury are all made by Tohatsu.

  8. #158
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Winyah Bay, SC
    Posts
    585
    1 - Yes.

    2 - Seems like it was $100 or more. Dunno what is involved with the install, wasn't hard as I recall. BUT: Not worth it, IMO - it only put out a small amount of current, more like a trickle charge, not like a house bank recharge amount. To get the full amount of current (which was like only 2 amps) you would have to run full throttle or near it. When motoring, I don't run the engine that hard very often, it's not needed.

    3 - I made good 1/4 gal per hour running from Wilmington to here, almost nonstop (3 hrs sleep in 34 hours total trip time), including some hellacious wind on the nose, and 2-4' seas on the Cape Fear River from Swans Cut to Southport - wuzzat, 10 miles, two+ hours easy? I think 2 strokes have more low end torque, but at 'cruising speed' I don't think there is that much difference.

    4 - Mines been great. I think in all except for very steep pitching seas, a short shaft would be OK as far as cavitation.

    Price - a big guess - 25-30% off? Maybe a little more?
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  9. #159
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    722

    Thanks guys,

    FWIW, for any who may follow this thread later.

    I found a couple places online selling the nissan (2007) 6hp 4 stroke with the 20" shaft for $1275.

    It looks like the vertical pull option is still available one place I called quoted me $89.99 for it, and I can get the 7" pitch prop for $59.99. The charging option looks like $145.

    It seems as though the Mercury price is higher for some reason...

    The guy I was talking to said he paid around $1600 for his, and they seem to retail for around $1800.... can not figure out for the life of me why.


    s/v 'Faith'

    1964 Ariel #226
    Link to our travels on Sailfar.net

  10. #160
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Newton and Oak Bluffs, Massachusetts
    Posts
    26
    Nissan 6

    Having had the Nissan 6 hp on my Commander, I would recommend the long shaft. With the 20" short shaft you'll experience some caviation in a steep choppy seas - the very conditions in which you'll least appreciate the cavitation. You'll amortize the incremental cost of the long shaft over the very long service life of the Nissan 6 and be glad you did.

    The vertical pull starter cord is a preference rather than a clear benefit. It works fine, but I found one drawback. When the vertical pull apparatus is installed through the opening in the engine cover, the rubber sound insulation gasket which surrounded the stock "horizontal" pull cord is removed. As a result, you get a little less sound insulation and a little more noise with the vertical starter. I would try the stock "horizontal" pull cord on your boat. If you have no problem with the stock pull cord, stick with it. If you have a problem with the stock "horizontal" pull cord, such as part of the bulkhead obstructing a "clean" pull, or are otherwise uncomfortable with the stock pull cord, you can always add the vertical pull.

    MRH
    MRH

  11. #161
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Posts
    95
    We just purchased a new Tohatsu 6 hp 4 stoke for #387. It was a long shaft model. We paid about $1400 in FLA. I guess Tohatsu is the #1 selling outboard in the world which surprised me. Yes they do make small block mercs as well. We just ran it more or less non stop for 4 days and it worked great. No cavitation even with a 20 degree list during motor sailing. Depending on tide pushed us along at 6 knt at just over half throttle. I too would also recommend a long shaft. I was going to buy a Yammy 6hp but I felt it was too big for the well esp with that fancy gear shifter on the throttle. Was also alot more money.

    Guy told me that a charging upgrade would run about 200 bucks since they have to put on a new fly wheel.

    The thing that I really like about this outboard is the weight which comes in around 50 lbs. Makes the dreaded engine in and out much less of a chore for old backs like mine. I don't like the engine cover which is a pain to get on and off. Also wished it had a proper dip stick instead of the modified plastic cap/dipstick which I fine hard to read. I guess as the oil gets dirty this will improve!

    I bought this motor with many doubts but it turns out to be a great power plant for an Ariel. I guess the Mercs and Nissans would be similar.

    I would recommend it to new engine buyers and I'm sure if you shop around you could get a beter price than we did at 1730 on a Sat evening in small town FLA!

    Andrew
    Last edited by Westgate; 03-13-2007 at 11:00 AM.

  12. #162
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Posts
    95
    I do have a question?

    What is the "best" prop for a 6hp outboard. I have little reverse power with the stock Tohatsu prop and I heard that a different pitch prop would improve this. What are the forward vs reserse power tradeoffs with different props?


    Andrew

  13. #163
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Posts
    118

    Prop

    I second Andrew's prop question??
    Joe

  14. #164
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Orinda, California
    Posts
    2,271
    Craig has the answer:

    Quote Originally Posted by c_amos View Post
    I can get the 7" pitch prop for $59.99.

  15. #165
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cape Cod, MA
    Posts
    8

    long vs short

    Quote Originally Posted by MRH View Post
    Nissan 6

    Having had the Nissan 6 hp on my Commander, I would recommend the long shaft. With the 20" short shaft you'll experience some caviation in a steep
    MRH
    I'm a bit confused. I'm about ready to replace the Yamaha 9.9 4-stroke that came with #242 with a new Mercury 6hp 4-stroke with the 20" shaft after reading all the great suggestions offered here.
    I had thought that the 20" shaft was the long shaft and that the short shaft was 15". Do I actually need a 25" shaft for my Commander?

    Marty Thomas
    Commander #242

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