rope/chain rode

[ebb]

8 strand nylon rope is interesting stuff.
It doesn't bird's nest in the locker, it flakes and falls in like chain and takes less space.
It doesn't twist and knot up. It's less prone to getting stiff in salt water.
It's more absorbent than 3-strand or braid, more water weight in the rope will help anchoring so it is said.
It has less stretch than 3-strand, and the longer it is used the better the hand gets.

If anchored in heavy weather repeated cycling under load becomes a big problem, especially with nylon. The working load on nylon rode should not exceed 20% of its breaking strength.
I can't think anything less than 5/8s Diameter which is rated 11,000 lb breaking. (20% or 2200lbs seem like hardly enough What exactly is the Working Load of a 5500# Ariel on the end of the rode in a storm with a name?)
It's $.99 a foot off the spool.

1/4" G4 chain is of no use since there is no shackle that matches its WLL.
30' of 5/16 G4 seems about right. I believe Craig has something like that on his Supreme.
Defender has prespliced rope/chain with 30' of 5/16" G4 spliced to 270' of 5/8" 8-strand for $350 (220' $310). The shipping from the East Coast to California is $63 UPS for the 80lb shipping weight. Interesting that 50' less rope adds up to 57lb. (source: Defender catalog and an order taker on the phone.) I didn't buy it. Was hardly willing to part with the $350.

Just looking at this.
Getting short custom lengths of G4 is a problem and buying a ready spliced rode seemed like a good idea. Except for the extraordinary shipping cost. The prices for 3-strand, braided and 8-strand plait are more or less the same: between $.85 and 1.30 for 1/2" and 5/8". 8-strand seems generally hard to find.

Imagining the Ariel anchored in a storm on the end of a single line, 5/8" seems about where I'd be doubting my trust,
especially if the load skinnies the braid's 5/8" diameter down to 3/8"!!!

The maker of Defender's 8-strand is Buccaneer Ropes. Who they?
Samson doesn't make Maypole laided rope (that's what a Brit source calls it).
Yale is new at it.

Any thoughts on this?
Any West Coast sources?

[mbd]

I ran across this "how-to" and it made me think of Ebb's thread here...

Rope-to-chain splices

[ebb]

Thanks Mike!
That is good stuff to know!
and thanks to John Danicic.

The 'elongated splice' (we have to come up with a better descriptive term!*) with 8 plait has my attention.
I know I'd feel safer with strands intertwining a number of links. It just looks right with the 8 plait. [Ebb's wrong here - see below.]

When you buy the made up 30/270 it's a single link back splice.
Aren't we loosing a big percentage of rope strength making a splice like that?
Long splicing 8-plait onto a number of links has to be the best soft connection you can make between nylon and iron.


All fiber rope makers seem to have their plants on the Eastern Seaboard. So shipping costs are a real impediment for us over here. Haven't found a chandlery here either that stocks 8 plait anchor line, nor shorter lengths of 5/16 G4 galv chain.
[I don't bother to bring up Lost Marine on the net anymore. Their pages are often not specific to a search, in fact they seem to be illiterate or just don't care. Their prices are often OUTRAGEOUIS, higher than any other cataloger. You'd think the largest retailer would be a discounter.]

Defender sells 5/16 G4 Acco BY THE FOOT ($3.49) - but ships it UPS it at 2# per foot!
They have Buccaneer 8 strand nylon plait (5/8" $.99ft) - 11# per 100' shipping.

Really impressed with that long rope-to-chain splice and have to try it myself.
If I ordered 30' chain and 300' of 5/8" Buccaneer that's 100 Defender pounds by UPS!!!
Actual weight is probably half that.
No warm fuzzy loyalty feelings here.
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* How about 'the eight to eight splice'?
8 TO 8 PLAIT
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SO, what would you have at the other end of your rode?
A soft or hard EYE?

[ebb]

THAT IS NOT AN 8 STRAND ELONGATED SPLICE

described in the article.
Assume is the mother of all screw-ups.


It ought to be,
Don't know how you take 8 strands of 5/8" nylon thru a single link of 5/16 G4.
No wonder it didn't compute for me. I think the splice is ugly as shown. I mean it is not conceptually correct.

OK. so where is that 8 strand to 8 link long splice?
Somebody has to have done it!!!
Mr. Danicic.....?
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
Just spoke with a nice gentleman in Alabama at Buccaneer.
When you order from them they do the regular back splice that T.R.Rigging does for Defender. They do not do an elongated splice for 8 Strand OR 3 strand. He suggested going to a rigger. Or a sail loft. He did understand the reason behind a long splice. They've never had a complaint about the 8 strand, except for skippers getting the size wrong for their windlass.
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************************************ HERE IT IS - THE 8 STRAND LONG SPLICE *******************************************

google> Anchor splicing
sailmagazine.com/boatworks/sails-and.../8-strand_splice/

(this probably won't work - but if some computer-age cognoscenti can bring it over to here that would be excellent! hint hint)

Sail Magazine article:
8-Strand splice
By Peter Nielsen Posted April 30, 2009
11 photos, one diagram.

Could think this multilink splice UGLY,
BUT imco it is conceptually correct!
Mr Nielsen certainly believes so....
and many European sailors who have used it for 'many years'.

[mbd]

http://sailmagazine.com/boatworks/sa...strand_splice/

Before and after....

[ebb]

Mike, FANTASTIC!

I guess that makes this thread a loop.

We have pretty clear idea of a modern cruiser's anchor rode.
Even if I wasn't cruising, I'd have something like this for the boat,
just in case.

For the moment it appears that this 8 strand rope-to-chain LONG splice is a
FOLK SPLICE (if that is how to call it).
It seems to have appeared spontaneously in Europe with the appearance of 8 strand plait, the Brits not credited with the invention. We're probably only 3 people away from knowing the guy who first did it.
NO manufacturer has a diagram in their how-to's - which is really quite strange.


Anybody got a deal on a pail of 5/16 G4 and a half a spool of 5/8 Buccaneer square rope?
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Wow! Thanks again for the following post (#7) from MIKE
on Yale Cordage. Have to go back and actually read it later.
Yale takes credit for inventing the stuff - sounds that way. It's now 10 years old.
But Buccaneer's Brait is probably not an outright copy as it weighs a little bit more and has a bit more breaking (tensile) strength.
Yale at Defender is also $.20 more a foot (for the 5/8s.)
Yale also makes the argument FOR the heavier line and its water absorbing ability. But there is a chart that recommends much lighter rope for our size boat. Given our size boat and anchor, wouldn't you think a heavier rope preferable?
Here's where we have to find out about whose yarns have the best UV protection and other physical attributes.

Most interesting on the Yale site are two urethane rope paints, which I have never heard of.......