Commander 147

[kendall]

Thank you for the drawing! The tiller on mine bears a very strong resemblance to to a $5 home depot wheel barrow handle.....

Been sitting in the cockpit reaching for an imaginary tiller to try and come up with a design to build (On warm days anyway!)


Very nice bench. The levers lower the wheels through a cammed end? and when fully down, what locks them? a simple over-center design?

Ken.

[Commander 147]

The wheels are lowered with a simple cam and there is no need for a lock because in the down position the cam is past center and it stays down on it's own.

I attached a PDF which should make the drawing easier to read if you print it out.

[carl291]

Have you had time to check your PMs yet? Carl

[Commander 147]

I tend to forget all about checking for private messages. But I have replied back to you now.

[Frenna]

Nice work, and thanks for the layout drawing. I may be doing much the same myself soon, but there is one thing I wonder about. Why do the laminated build up? It seems perhaps they were original to the boats, but I always thought laminated tillers were a bit inferior in appearance to solid shaped. It looks like the pattern could be got out of 5-1/2" stock with just a band saw and then shaped up. I have seen a few herreshoff tillers that were really lovely. Plenty strong enough in the right wood, I imagine.

Just a question, not a critique, it looks really lovely.

-Frank

[Rico]

Great work Jerry! (this, and your beautiful woodwork as well!)

I am about to start this 'rail fill' project myself... I decided to do away with the rub-rail, but filling the rail is necessary in order to install the long Genoa track on the rail...

I was considering using polyester resin along with a thickening agent... but this putty product seems quite interesting.
I am looking forward to hearing how happy you are with this product.

C-147 is fast becoming a VERY happy ship. Surely it will last for generations (They already have a great start!)

[Commander 147]

I plan to use an 8 or 9 foot long Genoa track myself on the toe rail and that was another of the considerations for doing this project. And while we are talking headsail tracks, how long is the jib track you installed? I plan to do one like that and any feedback on how long yours was and how it is working for you would be helpful.

As far as this putty goes, it gets very hard. It should work exactly as I wanted it to in the genoa track area giving a solid surface to bolt through. It is pretty much exactly what you were thinking of using a polyester resin with a thickening agent (microballons and fumed silica) that is already premixed. All you have to do is add the MEKP to activate it and go.

I should warn you that the fumes are pretty bad. Even with a fan blowing in from the companionway and another blowing out from the forward hatch while I worked in the v-birth area and me wearing a mask that is designed for paint fumes I still ended up with a headache that I blame on the fumes at the end of a 5 hour day of using this stuff. The shelter Destiny is under is wide open on one end and 6 foot by 6 foot canopied opening on the other. But it still probably helped to hold fumes around the boat more than if it was in the wide open air.

[Commander 147]

away for a short time from the toe rail project and towards finishing up the all mahogany tiller. Yesterday we had another 70 plus degree day so I cut out of work a little early so I could take advantage of the warm air to glue up my all mahogany tiller. Then today the temperature after work was below 60 degrees so I did not want to chance the putty not setting up so instead I finished making the tiller.

All went well until I was using a router bit to put a radius in the edges of the tiller and I had a blow out. See the first picture below.

But if you were to hold the tiller in your hands and look at it you would never know it was there unless I showed you what to look for. The second tiller shows the salvaged tiller and the original one I made.

[ebb]

Jerry,
Making a second tiller is one thing I have thought of doing, and may still, because I like your idea of an all mahogany tiller.

I would make the bending/clamping form flat on a table.
I would use thinner laminations, as thin as 5/32"
I'd glue a number of veneers together - 9 - 12
- maybe not all at the same time
- maybe two or three separate glue ups to keep the bent wood stress small.
- take the tiller out of clamps when set - trim to its final length
- and work the desired taper into it. Not sure I would taper just the bottom, but that would be simplest.
Because the bottom laminations are theoretically in compression and not likely to splinter.

Then I would put it back in the form and glue a final strip or two on the bottom and on the top if necessary that would become the finished dimensions.
That way there would be no runout of tapered veneers. Which the H&L tillers all have, and aesthetically imco is this method's glaring feathering of glue line and veneer on the bottom of the lamination.
Being one beautiful color the tiller could look like a single piece.
And the grain would run full without runout on both top and bottom.

Thinner lams theoretically produce less stress in the bent composite.
Two or three wet and set glue-ups. would produce a tame tiller especially in the outside lamination that has most of the tension.
Less likely to let go and pop a splinter when finishing.
Miore glue lines, if it's the right glue, could arguably make a stronger tiller.
Haven't seen anybody do a tiller this way. With mahogany I'd probably use resorcinol.

If I ever get to it, I'll give that a try.
We should always carry a spare.
That would be the nifty two-tone H&L I have now.

[Commander 147]

Not sure it would work with my design unless I eliminated the knob on the bottom side of the tiller. I need all of the laminations to get the height for the knob. And that is also why almost my entire taper is on the bottom. This leaves the top piece almost intact and continuous.

As I was typing that it occurred to me I could just glue a couple of pieces to the end of the bottom afterwards to make my knob.


I do have one bottom strip that dies out completely and a second one that comes close which leaves the very obvious glue line from the resorcinol on the bottom which you can see in the picture below.


I also agree with the thinner strips thought. I honestly think I could have made mine thinner than I did which was 1/4". But when I did my test clamp up everything seemed to work OK so I went with it. But thinner strips would have created less stress just more glue lines.

[Rico]

I can imagine that your boat shelter might trap some fumes, but I cannot thing of any other disadvantage. You have a great 'workshop'!

My Jib track is 4' long. You do not need the full 4', but I wanted to avoid using the ends. I highly recommend the set-up. It has worked beautifully with my sail. Pointing ability increased dramatically with the ability to trim properly.

I spoke with the putty folks - and as it turns out, they have no suppliers out west. It is hazardous material, so shipping was almost as much as the product... So I may en-up mixing my own putty after all...

[ebb]

Doesn't Bondo make a LITE version of their stuff?
[Yes, DYNALITE, $10 qt.]
Auto paint suppliers might have it. Paintstores that carry automotive spray paint will have it or another brand. It's all the same stuff really.

Since it sets up hard I would use a plastic spreader (the green ones are the best) to fill the cove. A bendy plastic spreader will produce a flatter fill with a slight hollow. That is, after you stuff the cove you run the spreader at 90 degrees to the hull in the corner, scraping the excess away. After it sets up you can easily smooth the area with a sanding block, and do very minor fairing fill to get it perfect, if necessary.

For what it's worth I would recommend tabbing the corner with epoxy and glass.
Assures the structural join of deck to hull and will stop water from coming through the seam.
Don't know what the shrinkage is, but in a thick form as in the cove I would guess there will be some.
Before covering there has t be a complete cure. MSDS or datasheet. This allows the solvents to subside. That will ease bonding of the next system going over the polyester.

[Commander 147]

But I still have been finding some time for the boat. As the old saying goes where there is a will there is a way.

Ebb I am happy to report that the 1708 biax stuck very well to the bottom side of the deck. I layed 11" wide area on the bottom of the deck and 4" wide on the side of the hull. I cut the pieces into a small manageable size that was only 9" wide. Then I wet out the deck and hull where I was getting ready to put the biax, and then the mat side of the biax. I would stick the biax up with my referance line right on top of the fillet where the deck and hull come together. Then add resin to the exposed woven side of the biax and imediately follow with a layer of 6oz. cloth to minimize the amount of fairing I have to do later.

The first picture is what it looked like after I had the glass in place. It actually went very well.

The next picture is some future planning work I'm doing. Initially I plan to have my halyards terminated at the mast and I will mount a couple of winch pads on the mast for the halyard winches. But as I get older I may decide I want to run them back to the cockpit. So the second picture is of areas that I am making solid glass pads for rope clutches and winch bases.

And since I need to recore the bow area and because I wanted to make a more substantial mounting point for my bow cleat I glassed in the top of the bulhead leading to the chain locker.

[Commander 147]

The piece of wood that was under "Destiny's" mast when I got her was in pretty sad shape and needed replacing. I contemplated a lot of options and the one I contemplated the most other than the decision I finally made was the route Rico took. But in the end since I'm doing a major refit anyway I decided to make a permanent solid fiberglass mast step that has become a part of the deck.

I started out by making a wood plug the size and shape of the step I wanted to end up with.



Then I had to build a piece that recreated the curvature of the deck that I could set on my workbench so I could attach the plug to it and build a framework around it that would hold the casting resin I was using to make a mold for the fiberglass step.



After that I poured in the casting resin, let it set up and I had a female mold that would allow me to make a solid fiberglass mast step. Then I popped out the wood plug and started cutting pieces of fiberglass that would allow me to fill the mold with solid glass. I must have cut between 30 and 40 pieces to get enough to fill the mold. I painted the mold with release wax and started laying up my mast step. After all the glass was wet out I covered the assembly with visquene and then clamped the piece that matched the curvature of the deck to the top of it. After the epoxy cured I dissasembled everything and took out the fiberglass mast step. I used a special solvent that removed any traces of the release wax and then sanded everything smooth.

While I was waiting for the epoxy to cure on the mast step I recored the deck where the new mast step would go with solid glass. And as long as I was at it I made the areas where the forward hatch hinges go through the deck solid glass also.



Then when all the parts were ready I mixed up some thickened epoxy and spread an even layer on the bottom of the new step and pushed it down on the deck. I used the squeeze out to make a fillet around the step. Once that had set up I glassed the entire thing down to the deck. This picture shows it at that stage. The only thing still needing to be done is to sand it then fair it out with some epoxy thickened with cabosil and mircoballons.

[Commander 147]

The little piece of wood trim that came on "Destiny's main companionway hatch did not allow for an easy way to grasp the hatch and slide it back and forth. So I decided to make somethiing for it that was more accomodating to my fat fingers.

This was not a real easy task as I found out when trying to make the new hand hold. The curvature of the hatch is not a smooth radius so I found I had to first cut and shape the bottom of the new piece to match the shape of the hatch. Then 2-1/4" above that point I had to draw and cut a true radius that would allow me to use the top as an indexing point for the 4 router bits it would take me to make the profile I wanted to make.

This first picture is the profile of the new hand hold.



This second picture is the view showing how it looks on the hatch.