Commander 147

[Lucky Dawg]

Oh Man! I have drawn up about 10 takes on your interior bulkheads. I could never get them right as I had designed them with some depth... rather than your far cleaner and brilliantly simple veneer. They look beautiful and I am stealing your design next winter. Get ready for questions... in a year. Beautiful work Jerry!

"Mother, Mother Ocean. I have heard your call. Wanted to sail upon your waters since I was three feet tall." Countdown! I can hear your bow plying the Gulf!

[Bisquit]

Bisquit wants to be like Destiny when she grows up. You really do beautiful work.
Phil

[Commander 147]

Phil


Here's hoping Bisquit does not take as long to grow up as Destiny did. I built my own home in half the time it took me to rebuild from the ground up Destiny. But I did not hire any of it out except the sails and soon I will pay someone to do the bottom job. The rest was evenings and weekends when ever I could spare the time or muster this old body to get out there and work. Your louver looked pretty good. And I picked up on the dado's in your table saw out feed table how you drilled holes at the end of the dado to let sawdust drop through. When I saw that I thought ingenious! Unfortunately it would not work for mine because I have a shelf below the top where I store power hand tools.


Hopefully you will not even need to do a lot of the things I did like getting rid of the compression post and building a new rudder. But I look forward to watching your progress. And thanks again for saving another commander.

[Bisquit]

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm hoping to move Bisquit along quickly but know it will take longer than planned. Twice as long as twice as much - isn't that the rule of thumb? I figure as long as I have unrealistic expectations it shouldn't take too long. I have the advantage of working in a boat yard so I can sneak out in the afternoon and after work and put a few hours in. I already have finished reconditioning almost all of the exterior wood (hatch boards, entry trim, combings, handrails etc...) and will start building varnish between glass projects. I plan to start re-coring this week. I see how you did your deck layout. I'm going to have to map mine out soon as I plan to replace the balsa with G10 where hardware is located. Is there a discussion about deck layout pros and cons on the site? I have lots of questions for you.

[Commander 147]

When it comes to deck layout there are lots of bits an pieces here and there but I do not know of a specific thread dedicated to it here. And a lot of how you lay your deck out should in my opinion be geared to how you like things to work when you are sailing your boat. For example Mike who sails Commander 227 prefers his halyards led aft to the cockpit. Me on the other hand I find especially when trying to reef that I am bouncing back and forth between the cockpit and the mast far too much. So I want everything all in one place where I can do a complete job and then head back to the cockpit and go back to sailing. Neither is wrong it is just personnel preference. I have a friend who is older than me and sails an ensign and he sits in one spot in his cockpit whenever he is sailing so everything is led to that spot. Bottom line is there are a lot of things that work but knowing how you like things to be is what really makes your sailing more enjoyable.


Now that being said, I should tell you I feel like with my deck layout I did one thing less than perfect for my way of sailing. The jib track next to the cabin is not long enough going forward. With our lower shrouds the forward one can interfere with the sheet when running down wind. So if you chose to follow that jib track placement make the track go far enough forward to have a clear path for the sheet when running down wind. I chose to put the track down there because I used up most of the cabin top with my long handrails. I have no life lines and wanted more place to hold onto when going forward.

[Bill]

Is there a discussion about deck layout pros and cons on the site? .

Searching on the subject (jib track, etc) should bring up a number of solutions. Jib track locations depend on the size of the headsail. For deck sweeper jibs, the track is inside the shrouds near the large windows. For a 120, the track would be next to or on the rail from behind the shrouds toward the aft. A 150's track would be further back. You can see these placements on A-100, A-76 and several other SF Bay yachts where the winter winds are zilch and a calm summer day is about 25 kts.

[ebb]

Please sir, Give us all you can on the application of this system.
I've read of some sticking problems.
So has CopperCoat, but their answers were not convincing.

A product that promises 10 years in salt water (and indications of many bottoms going twice that)
is worthy of discussion.
Tips on getting it on would be great!
Promises come with the territory.

Love that hand rail!

[Commander 147]

ebb


The game plan is to apply the 4 coats of barrier coat as close together as possible (as soon as the previous coat is cured enough to apply another) and then follow up right away with the Coppercoat. We may be able to apply a coat of Coppercoat and by the time we get all the way around the boat the just applied coat will likely be cured enough at our starting point to follow up immediately with the next and so on.


Where the jack stands are we will paint the barrier coat as close as we can and the Coppercoat will be stepped back at least 6" all the way around. Then once the surface has cured enough to safely relocate the jack stands we will sand the edges of both finishes and do the same process all over again where the jack stands were previously.


As I understand it there are two critical things you need to do. First constantly mix the Coppercoat. The copper settles out very quickly so you have to mix, mix, mix as you apply.


Second you cannot allow the Coppercoat to get wet before it is completely cured. And that is very important.


So that is the pregame lineup we will have to see how the ball game actually goes.

[ebb]

That's pre-game...thanks.
Going to have look where your dewpoint is... if you are between coats over night.
Maybe just draping with Ty-vec or plastic film will keep it off your work!

No, I wonder if it's little things like that... that cause the mishaps people complain about...
Epoxy amine blush is another
....very high humidity...
Making sure we're well within the recoat limit, especially in high temps.

Never thought dust would be a problem with epoxy...
but maybe if your dust comes off a highway...black and sticky... like where Littlegull is sitting...

[Bisquit]

What are you using for a barrier coat?

[Commander 147]

Interlux barrier coat. I used it before with good results.

[Bisquit]

We have had very good results with it as well. We have been using it for many years. Last year we started using it instead of high build primer for Awl Grip paint jobs. We still prime with 545 before the topcoat but the 2000 is a good base. It works for priming masts too.

[Commander 147]

We have had very good results with it as well. We have been using it for many years. Last year we started using it instead of high build primer for Awl Grip paint jobs. We still prime with 545 before the topcoat but the 2000 is a good base. It works for priming masts too.

That's interesting.

[ebb]

Isn't this how it goes?
First, a barrier coat, just that: a very good, fairly thin 2 to 1 epoxy
--that you put on the hull after you think you completed all repairs.
It doesn't need pigment to do that job. It's a juicy seal coat for old polyester.
Imco it should be structural, not just a coating.
A laminating epoxy 'seal coat' would also fill the pores of brown fairing epoxy with the hull.

{When I did the bottom of A338 I added, I think, one coating of NSP120 PotableWater
EpoxyCoating ((WaterGard300 Solvent-FreeEpoxyPaint)) -- white epoxy, as an imitation
gel coat -- just in case bottom ever has to be sanded back in the future, the white appears
and says, enough now!} Bonus barrier coat is a 'tank' coating from epoxyproducts.com/

Next coat, if needed, are epoxy filler coats, called high build
because they have more calcium carbonate in them, which will be mostly sanded off.
This is a sanding prep coat, its only job. Its only job is to be backing for a mirror surface.
Before we rolled this white high build coat on, we used brown epoxy fairing compound
for major divits and hollows -- and endlessly faired the hull, deck or cabin before high build.

There are even more steps here to get Awlgrip ready, including a light color wash coat,
to see what was missed, and maybe one or more final high build patch coats and sanding...
if there still remain minor imperfections, pin holes, broken bubbles, fill them with white
3M painter's putty -- and with 320 or 400 rub 99% of it off.
None of this preceding stuff has to be any part of : The $$$ !@#$ Awlgrip Product System.

THEN the tie coat goes on, which IS part of the Awlgrip or LPU sequence. 'Their' epoxy coat.
It fills the pores of fillers and grabs the sanded surface. It's a very thin coating.
Can't touch the boat anymore, or get dew on it --until it's sprayed.

This would also work as prep for modern polyester gel coat. Using 'their' recommended
epoxy tie coat.

I'm no frikkin expert on this stuff -- expect to be countered -- that's what this is all about !

[Bisquit]

All valid techniques. I have used the IP 2000 instead of the Awl Grip High Build Primer. This way you can combine the barrier coat and the high build steps. It is cheaper, sands well and fills pin holes. You still have to compete all repairs and fair the surface before you apply the 2000. After you sand the 2000 if you still have any pin holes or swirl marks you can thicken the 2000 with Colloidal Silica (Gougeon 406) and apply with a spreader. You can't expect to fair with a finish. Here is a Santa Cruz 70 that is currently in our shop primed with 2000. In the second picture you can see a section that was filled with thickened 2000. The owner sent his boat manager to help sand the 2000 and he edged the DA and we had to redo the entire area he sanded with the thickend 2000.