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Thread: Commander 147

  1. #166
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Brooksville, FL
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    720

    OK guys

    Even though I don't feel like I've made enough progress recently to post pictures, some of you are asking so here goes.

    The first picture is Destiny's water tank plumbed in. Laying on top the tank is the new deck fill fixture which has an intragal vent.

    The second picture is how I ended up changing the chain locker bulkhead. I plan to do enclosed storage above the v-birth (where the shelves are) with doors that have cane in the center for ventilation, so I needed to shrink the hole going into the chain locker to do that.

    The third picture is what the main bulkheads look like from the v-birth side. The v-birth is completely tied back into the bulkheads and you may notice in some of the other pictures that I changed the direction of the vertical plywood that supports the v-birth in the center. It used to be one straight piece and the drop in center cushion had to span a pretty wide area. So I made it bend and go more straight back at the aft end of the platform for the porta potty (or head as the case may be) which also gave me a larger storage area under the v-birth sides.

    The forth picture is the sink cabinet with the first coat of primer on it. If you look closely below the cabinet and aft of it you can see what looks like a mouse hole in the quarter birth. This is where the foot pump for the sink's water supply is installed. Also you will notice some screw holes near the round outside corner. The entire end of the cabinet is removeable for clear access to the plumbing below.

    The fifth picture is the stove cabinet.

    There is one more picture that I will have to post in another post (I maxed out on pictures in this one) showing some of the mahogany pieces that will go inside the boat.
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    JERRY CARPENTER - C147
    A man can succeed at almost anything for which he has unlimited enthusiam.

  2. #167
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    Sep 2008
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    Brooksville, FL
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    Pictures continued...

    The picture below shows some of the mahogany pieces that will go inside the boat. Most of these go in or on or near the two cabinets. I'm currently working on 6 more pieces that below to this group and then I need to make all the parts for my electric panels.
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    JERRY CARPENTER - C147
    A man can succeed at almost anything for which he has unlimited enthusiam.

  3. #168
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    Aug 2008
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    Camden, NC
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    Jerry,
    Very impressive. Cabinetry is first rate and looks like it was always there to begin with. What type of white paint have you spot painted the cabin interior with or is that just primer? I have not bought my paint yet and only have past experience with Petit Easypoxy (one part poly). Is your white a gloss, semi gloss, or? I was at a marina last weekend and met an owner of a Cape Dory 25D who was finishing some interior painting and he used Sherwin Williams tinted to Cape Dorries original tan color that was in the sail locker areas. The paint he used looked good, but not sure of it's long term durability.

    Your mahogany trim and bright work is excellent. What clear coating did you elect to go with on the mahogany?

    Ahh, I see the trim that is to be installed on the inboard leading edges of the split bulkheads. I have yet to figure out how to make the trim (my bulkheads are similar in shape to yours) to cover up the edges of mine. I want to cap them in mahogany, something like a dadoed solid piece and fasten them counter sunk bronze screws followed by plugs. I'ts an area I have no experience in, but then again I had hardly any experience in glass work either, and seem to have overcome that learning curve. Is your trim like that or is it a laminated build up, and if so did you dado it or will it sit flat on top of the bulkhead edges?
    Respectfully,
    Chance Smith
    (Formerly) Sea Sprite 23 #760 (Heritage)
    (Formerly) Commander #256 (Ceili)

  4. #169
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    Sep 2008
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    Chance

    The paint I'm using is Pettit EZ Cabin Coat mold and mildew resistant paint. It is a water based paint that has a semi gloss appearance. The first batch of it I bought was the white and it was just to white for my taste. So I'm using the white for the first two coats of paint and then I'm going to follow with two coats of the their off white. It has a slight cream color to it and it looks great with the woodwork. It also doesn't blind you when you look at it with it's brilliance.

    On the mahogany trim I had some epifanes here and decided to go with it.

    As far as my trim for the edges of the main bulkheads here are a couple of pictures of the edge of one piece and you can see a did a dado on the backside to completely cover the edge of the plywood. The pieces are a glued up laminate and you can see my form to make them in my post number 145 of this gallery along with the glue I used. If you decide to go that way it is important to use a glue that hardens into a crystaline form so you don't get creep like you would with normal woodworking glue. Also if you go this way it is important to keep the slices of wood in the same order that you cut them from the board. It makes it much harder to detect that they are a bunch of strips glued up together. I've shown friends those pieces and until I told them how I made them they did not notice that it was strips glued together. Also in the past when I did glue ups like this I used to plane the surfaces of the pieces I glued together. These pieces had such a tight radius to follow that the pieces had to be so thin there was no way I could surface them. So I put a very good blade on the tablesaw and just ripped them off of a single board and kept them in order. After glue up you can't tell they were only surfaced with a saw blade. Oh and one last hint about the thickness of the pieces you glue together. The way to determine the thickness required for the individual strips is to slice a piece the thickness you think will work and then bend it around your form. If you can hold it tightly against the form around the entire curve without it breaking you are thin enough. If on the other had it snaps then cut another piece thinner and try again. Repeat the process until the piece is able to follow the form without breaking.
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    JERRY CARPENTER - C147
    A man can succeed at almost anything for which he has unlimited enthusiam.

  5. #170
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    Sep 2008
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    Brooksville, FL
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    A peek at what Destiny's DC fuse panel will look like...

    I took the time (when I really should have been doing other things) to work on Destiny's electric panel area this weekend. I have always disliked how boat builders put the smallest fuse panel in that they can get away with on boats. Today we have a lot more electronics than we used to in addition to the normal stuff like lights and power outlets. In addition I like dedicated breakers for each electrical item. With this setup I should be able to have dedicated breakers for everything and and 3 or 4 left over for spares.

    The panel is hinged to allow easy access. To the left of the panel is where a 110VAC outlet will be available for use when at the dock in plugged into shore power.

    The two frames I made for the panel I made as mortise and tennon frames as you can see in the first picture.

    The second picture is a mock up of how it will look later.
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    JERRY CARPENTER - C147
    A man can succeed at almost anything for which he has unlimited enthusiam.

  6. #171
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
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    3,617

    veneer gue-up radius

    Jerry,
    Interested in your modus operandi.....
    Great tip on bending and gluing a continuous trim piece. (Cutting from one piece and stacking in order!)
    Looks like you had to actually cut veneer thickness (1/16") for that bend.
    Can't see too well because there is a white smuuge on the end photo shot - must be the reflection.
    But get the idea.

    What blade do you use? Obviously has to be as thin as possible so as not to waste too much precious wood.
    What glue? Epoxy? Don't think so.
    I worry about creep in all aliphatic derived glues.
    Brown glue - viz Weldwood water mix powder resin glue? imco, just fine for interior trim.
    [And as I have said befor: I've witnessed 50' spruce mast scarfs glued with Weldwood Resin Glue.]

    Have a tip on applying the glue to the veneers?

    And the form you use.....
    Do you bend into a form? (my preference for clamping ease), OR around a form?
    How do you control even clamping pressure to avoid excessive squeeze out? (Yeah, Right, Carefully!)
    Last edited by ebb; 08-14-2011 at 10:32 AM.

  7. #172
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    Sep 2008
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    Brooksville, FL
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    Ebb

    You are correct that the strips that were glued up are in fact only 1/16" thick to make the radius.

    As far as saw blades, I have come to like Freud blades the best. I've used all of the top brands (a high quality blade is a joy to use compared to a cheap blade) including Forrest blades. But Freud manufactures differant grades of carbide for their differant saw blades. And the prices for what you get are really reasonable. And while a thinner blade will in theory cost you less material it will also vibrate more durning the cutting process. This will result in a rougher surface which is what I was trying to avoid for the glue up. This is the blade I used for cutting the strips.

    http://www.freudtools.com/p-29-gener...sebr-nbsp.aspx

    The glue I prefer is Weldwood plastic resin glue. As you mentioned it is a powder that is mixed with water I actually use a small mixmaster I bought at a yard sale to mix it completely. And it depends on the job I'm doing as to how I apply it. In the case of this trim it was so narrow that I just used a brush. I flipped over the top piece and coated that surface and the surface that was exposed on the top of the remaining stack. Then I flipped over the the second piece on top of the first one I had just applied the glue to and did the same thing again. I continue in this manner until the whole stack is ready for the form. When I am doing wider strips I like to use a roller to spread the glue. It goes much faster and gives you a more even application of the glue.

    Before I put the stack in the form I turn them up on edge and push everything in alignment. Then I will take a couple of pieces of painters tape and wrap around the stack on each end to help hold them in alignment as the clamp up is begun.

    The form is the most important part of the glue up. And it depends on the piece I'm doing if I will bend into a form or around a form. In the case of these pieces I bend around the form. I had a long straight part of the glue up and then a sharp curve. I was able to clamp the straight part to stablize the material before bending around the curve.

    I like to use MDF for my forms because the material is consistant throughout, it is stable and it is dead flat. I start out by doing a full scale drawing of the finished part on a piece of 3/4" thick MDF. This gives me the inside curvature and the outside curvature (they are differant due to the material's thickness) of my form pieces. You can see a portion of my form's layout in the first picture below. The double line near the inside of the piece in the drawing showed where my dado would be cut later and that is actually the shape of the edge of the bulk head it is going over.

    When I lay out the shape of the piece on the MDF I also lay out where the clamps will go around the form. And on this form you can see where I drew lines to cut the outside of the form into smaller blocks to make glue up easier.

    Next I cut the picture of the final piece out of the center. I use a longboard to hand sand the edges of the form that will go up against the piece. When they are perfectly smooth, I glue and screw another piece of MDF to the one that I just finished making. Then I use a flush trimming router bit to cut the second piece (that I need for the added thickness of the form) to the exact shape of the first piece.

    I fear this may be getting to be to long of a response to Ebb's questions and don't want to bore you. So let me say one more thing and provide one more picture of the form all clamped up and if you still have questions please ask and I will answer.

    The last thing I want to mention is the edges of the form and anyplace where glue might get where it is not wanted I protect with packing tape. It keeps the part from sticking to the form. And as far as squeeze out goes, I try to protect things under the form that I am concerned about and just let it happen. As you can see in the last picture.
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    JERRY CARPENTER - C147
    A man can succeed at almost anything for which he has unlimited enthusiam.

  8. #173
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Camden, NC
    Posts
    283
    Jerry,
    Thank you kindly for the quality response and in answering my questions. Your truley a master at what you do. Very nice craftsmanship I must say. Thanks for making the lightbuld come on in my head, now I understand the process.
    Okay, so here's some more:
    I see the three lines you drew on the clamping form before you cut. I understand how to get the first line representing the edge of the bulkhead, but how do you draw the inner line (that represents the depth of the dado) and the outer line that represents the actual mahogany trim? Do you use a compass?
    Respectfully,
    Chance Smith
    (Formerly) Sea Sprite 23 #760 (Heritage)
    (Formerly) Commander #256 (Ceili)

  9. #174
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    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brooksville, FL
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    Chance

    Actually the inner line that represents the depth of the dado is the same as the bulkhead edge. The bottom of the dado is what will bear on the bulkhead edge so that is the first line and it matches the edge of the bulkhead. Then you could use a compass to get the other lines parallel to the bulk head line but I have always found that difficult to do. So I use a small 6" steel scale that is divided up into 32nds of an inch and make small pencil lines the correct distance from the original line every half inch or so apart in the area of the curve and then just connect the lines. For me it is just easier.
    JERRY CARPENTER - C147
    A man can succeed at almost anything for which he has unlimited enthusiam.

  10. #175
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Camden, NC
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    Jerry,
    Okay. So, let me see if I got this right......after the three lines are drawn on the MDF, you cut the clamping jig. First you cut on the outer line that reprensents the top of the trim and then cut on the inner line that represents the bottom of the trim, correct? The line that represents the actual bulkhead (bottom of dado) is not cut but only used for a reference point for the other two lines, correct?

    By the way, beautiful mortise and tenon stile and rails on Destiny's electrical panel cabinet!!

    Your fiddle rails look very similar to mine. I'll post photos some time.
    Respectfully,
    Chance Smith
    (Formerly) Sea Sprite 23 #760 (Heritage)
    (Formerly) Commander #256 (Ceili)

  11. #176
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brooksville, FL
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    Chance

    You got right. And one more hint, I cut just inside (or outside depending on which surface I'm cutting for) and then sand up to the line. That gets me dead on the line with a smooth surface.

    Good luch with your project and thanks for all the complements. This is the best part of a forum like this one. We can learn from each others experience and make the ones we are attempting easier and end up with better results. I know I certainly learn from your projects and really appreciate your posts about them.
    JERRY CARPENTER - C147
    A man can succeed at almost anything for which he has unlimited enthusiam.

  12. #177
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Camden, NC
    Posts
    283
    Jerry,
    Thanks for the prompt reply and entertaining my specific questions. Your expertise and tips are very helpful.

    What type of Mahogany did you finally decide on for your interior trim work? Looking good. So with all your progress, do you work and have family too??

    Charge on. It is clearly evident that "DESTINY" is in very capable hands and her steward seeks nothing but the best in and for her!
    Respectfully,
    Chance Smith
    (Formerly) Sea Sprite 23 #760 (Heritage)
    (Formerly) Commander #256 (Ceili)

  13. #178
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brooksville, FL
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    Chance

    Most of the mahogany in the interior is Honduras mahogany. I found a lumber yard that caters to the marine industry and they stock it.

    Yes, unfortunately I still have to work for a living. I usually work between 40 and 50 hours a week but I do it from home so it makes it more tolerable.

    And yes I have a family I really enjoy spending time with. That is in fact the reason for the commander. I needed the large cockpit to take my family sailing. I have been married to the same woman for 39 years and we have two grown daughters who have given us our 3 fantastic grandchildren. I spend all the time I can with the grandchildren and love every minute of it. We are lucky that they are close and we get to see them a lot.

    The only other thing that makes my progress slow on Destiny is the constant heat and humidity here in Florida. The older I get the less I can tolerate the heat and we get 3 months in the summer where the feels like temperature is over 100 every day. I am really looking forward to fall.
    JERRY CARPENTER - C147
    A man can succeed at almost anything for which he has unlimited enthusiam.

  14. #179
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Camden, NC
    Posts
    283
    Jerry,
    Thank you. I love working with Honduras Mahogany. I also like African mahogany for it's rays, but dislike the stringy grain. Sepele I think is also beautiful. I have a bit of Honduras that I made the fold down bulkhead tables from, but my fiddle rails are a mix of Honduras and African. I have more African in my little work shop than I do of the prized Honduras.

    Congratulations on your tried and true family! It seems in today's western culture, couples find it all to easy to dispose of relationships and marriage. You have me beat though, as my better half and I have 18 years and two wonderful teenagers. No grandchildren yet, and hopefully they are a ways off.

    I can't even imagine the additional heat and humidty that you endure down South, but like you, I find my tolerance for weather is less now than it was years ago. Favorite time of year is spring and fall, go figure.
    Respectfully,
    Chance Smith
    (Formerly) Sea Sprite 23 #760 (Heritage)
    (Formerly) Commander #256 (Ceili)

  15. #180
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brooksville, FL
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    720

    What a differance a 1/32" makes

    For my DC panel sides I had cut some scrap pieces of meranti 12MM plywood to enclose it with. I used the same for the enclosure for the 110VAC outlet. I did not want to paint these sides white but they just didn't look good with the Phillipine mahogany finished with varnish. Then I remembered I had bought a small packet of quartered mahogany veneer at a wood working show a couple of years ago and never used it. So I veneered the faces of the sides that will show and you can judge for yourselves if it was worth the 1/2 hour it took me to do it. The small piece at the top is meranti with varnish on it and the other two are the ones I veneered.

    The second picture is the latest batch of parts getting finished.
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    JERRY CARPENTER - C147
    A man can succeed at almost anything for which he has unlimited enthusiam.

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