Commander 147

[Commander 147]

Perhaps laminated tillers are inferior in appearance. This is why I plan to make a second tiller out of all mahogany which will look more like one made from solid stock.

But the laminated tiller is significantly stronger than one made from solid stock. The grain pattern of the individual strips follows the shape of the tiller which by itself adds strength. Think of wood like a bundle of plastic straws. If the straws are running close to perpendicular to the length of the tiller it is easier to break the tiller in between the straws separating the bundle. But if all of the straws are running the entire length of the tiller it is much more difficult to break it because now you have to actually break the bundle of straws in half and not just separate them from the other straws. Does that make sense or have I had too many beers tonight???


The reason I used the white ash in this tiller is because white ash resists bending and twisting much better than mahogany. So by mixing the two I get the strength of the white ash and the appearance of the mahogany all in one.

But as I said earlier I plan to make another spare tiller (which might become the primary tiller) out of all mahogany. And while I believe it will be strong enough to handle the forces applied to it I learned long ago that I am not able to over come the urge to over build everything I make. I know that if I build it stronger than it needs to be then I don't have to worry about it anymore.

[ebb]

Jerry's 2"X2" diagram of the tiller layout in post #64 also works to show what would happen if you laid out the tiller on a nice plank of mahogany - or any wood.
It's easy to see the short grain in the tapering of the tiller to its end. Just follow the horizontal grid lines through the slender handle. That's short grain.
Easy to imagine it cracking there the first time you leaned on the tiller by mistake.
And there is too much runout in the grain where it approaches the tiller head.
Same result, and compounded by the side loads a tiller takes in use.
It would be dangerous at the end of the tiller where you have 3 closely grouped bolts holding the tiller onto the bronze tiller head - if there was any slanted grain there.

You could have a solid NON laminated tiller if you took your pattern out to where a locust tree had fallen - and tried the pattern on various limbs, then
cut your tiller out of that single curved piece of wood. They used to carve out floors and knees for wooden ships by chopping out curved pieces of tree crooks, crotches, limbs coming out of trunks, roots, and such. Curved limbs for frames.
Seem to remember the term "grown knees".
So if you found the perfect limb and carved out the tiller - you'd have a grown tiller, by gum.
And if you had the right wood (Honey Locust would be good) it would definitely be stronger than a laminated job which is only as strong as its glue.

[commanderpete]

I think the shape is perfect. I like how the handle end droops down so it becomes level when installed.

You probably wont find a stock tiller shaped like that. Usually the handle end points up. Not terrible, but it could be better. The drawing is helpful, and H & L could build one based on that for the non-carpenters here

The worst is a tiller that is too low. Not only do you bang your knee, you end up having to lean over while steering. Becomes uncomfortable

Nice job

[Commander 147]

I'm not sure who H & L is but I'm guessing they could build it cheeper than I could because they probably have a lower cost of materials and labor.

Not counting the time it took me to build the jig or make the template I'm guessing it takes me about 6 to 8 hours of labor to make one of these. By the time I set up the bandsaw and resaw all the strips and surface them in the planer, then glue everything up and shape it afterwards and sand it I would not be surprised to have that much time in it.

[ebb]

Jerry, I believe H&L build replacement tillers for just about any boat, and have in stock or patterns for any one design.

I sent them a pattern of my own, and of course more radical than any they show on their web site.
Thought they would find a close match to a set up they already had. But I got back was a beautiful and exact laminated tiller of the pattern I sent, rounded and sanded for about 70 bucks.

There are no glue lines in what they do, so I suppose they use 'plastic resin' glue
the mix with water powered stuff. Traditional for glue up spruce spars, imco. It's water resistant. But you hardly ever see one of their varnished tillers delaminating. Except down at the tillerhead where the bolts are and people forget to juice the holes through the wood.

[Commander 147]

I just did a search and found several people selling their tillers and they were advertised between $60.00 and $100.00 based on the exact tiller you wanted. A very reasonable price based on what I know I have invested in mine.

[Ariel 109]

I'm not sure who H & L is but I'm guessing they could build it cheeper than I could because they probably have a lower cost of materials and labor.

Jerry

Most likely H & L isn't making any money building tillers. At such a low price they are attracting customers with a classic "loss leader" item. I'm sure it's also a way to get rid of leftover scrap materials and keep employees busy. Something more complicated than a tiller from them will no doubt have "market" pricing.

I make cutting boards out of my leftover scraps mostly as gifts for friends and customers.

Ben

[Commander 147]

And the pictures below show why you don't use polyester resins to tab in a bulkhead. The first picture is what somebody did for the previous owner when he replaced the bulkheads. It was coming loose and when I pryed on it a little it just popped loose which you can see in the second picture. I had to cut it loose from the bulk head so I can redo the tabbing.

My current project is repairing and reinforcing the bottom side of the deck where I will later be recoreing from the top. After patching all of the holes I will be putting a layer of 1708 biax and a layer of 6oz finishing cloth on the bottom of the deck to give it more strength before I cut into the top. And once I had talked myself into going to all that work I decided I would fill the toe rail so I could tie the hull and deck together and make a better looking job of the reinforcing. The third picture is a drawing of what I'm doing at the toe rail.

[ebb]

Hey jerry,
To stick heavy mat to the overhead you're going to have to figure out a way to hold it up there until it sets. I don't know what.
But it occurs to me if you have to go to the trouble of supporting the cloth with thick cardboard and a miriad of battens to hold it all up there....

why not skip the catortionist wet matt stuff and just support the deck with just enough pressure on the underdeck from spring battens to support recoring the deck from the top.

The argument would be that you are probably going with closed cell pvc foam and epoxy and glass. The green foam I've used has to be considered structural. Marvelous stuff.
You will end up with a very strong composite. Stronger because epoxy sticks better to the foam than it does to end grain balsa.

On the Ariel the foredeck has a plank of plywood down the center from the stem to the cabin. No balsa there. And probably no rot because I found the stip had been isolated from the balsa. Effectively separating the balsa into separate islands. If you are replacing that you could do first one side then the other. You could do the same along the side decks. You'd just make sure you married the sections together real good where they meet.

Glass matt, while very strong, soaks up an extraordinary amount of epoxy. I haven't done it but imco the stuff will be too heavy to stick to the roof, it'll want to pull away, so it will have to be supported everywhere. However, I think you could get away with pasting 6oz glass cloth overhead. Cloth would allow easier filling and fairing too.


TOE RAIL
Filling the inside of the toerail will take a huge amount of expensive epoxy. I know - I filled A338's toerail stem to stem. What's that, 52 feet of 1 1/2"X 1 1/2"X 1 1/2" of fill? Plus waste, squeeze out, and pot life fiascos!
I 'cheated' by jamming one foot long pieces of wood up in there with lots of epoxy gel reinforced with chopped strand. The wood was milled to make a flat bottom inside easy to fair with the deck. In some places you'd never know the hollow toerail was ever there.
Using wood chunks cut roughly to fit could be jammed in the cove and the squeeze-out cleaned up easy because the pieces didn't need to be braced or fastened.
Now there is more wood than plastic inside all along the cove which makes it very friendly to screws and thru-fastenings anytime later.

Just ideas.