Commander #256 (Ceili)

[Chance]

Commander 147 (your name?)
Thanks for the kind feedback. Okay here's my humble response to your recore comments:
1) The inner skin is prepared by sanding / grinding it clean. This process does remove some of the glass and the inner skin was already very, very thin. When I recored from the inside, I was working from top skin inward, and the top skin is much thicker and in my judgement didn't need a prep layer of glass before proceeding with the core. But... the inner skin, especially on the amidship side decks was way thin (again in my humble opinion and experience) so I chose to lay one layer in before the core.
2) I chose not to use the outer skin I removed because upon removal I had to flex it a bit more than I would have liked, and it stressed the layers and to a small degree compromised the outer skin layer layup. Also, the outer skin, upon removal does not come up easily at the outer perimeter of where the rotten core is. It's the extreme perimeter that I incountered good solid core and the associated excellent bond between the core and outer skin. Prying this area up tore part of the outer skin which stayed adhered to the core. This caused the outer skin to be of various thickness. The core in the deck is 3/8 inch. Note: the core in the lazarette motor well cover is 1/2 inch.
3) The core, even though it is 3/8 of an inch, actually is thinner on the inboard and outboard sides (near the cabin sides and toe rail). In essense the core was tapered on the sides, when Pearson did the maiden layup of
the deck. Regardless had I not added a layer of cloth in before the core, I would still have to much balsa core (thickness at the sides) and either way will have to sand it down before proceeding with the outer skin layup.
Honestly, I would prefer to build up new, either inner or outer skin, whichever applies, rather than use the old.
4) When I laid in the one layer of 17 oz on the inner skin, I did so with little to no thickened epoxy. None was needed. My prep of the original inner skin left it very smooth (well 60 grit smooth) and I simply used unthickened epoxy to wet out the cloth an install. I did however, use thickened epoxy with mill glass fibers added to the inboard and outboard areas that I removed the old balsa core (this was the extreme tapered areas, and is definately not 3/8 of an inch to the extreme widths). Also, when I made my cuts, I cut about 1 and half inches in from the extreme sides, this allows me to taper in a proper reskin, hence the bevel.

Thanks.

[Chance]

Rico,
Thank you kindly for your offering up your chromer, but I won't be seeking a shop on the other coast.

Hey, have you mounted your new T track for your headsail combinations? You mentioned a while back, with great prelude photos, of where you may install the genoa track. I'll be installing my 8 foot genoa track in the future, still undecided at this point. IMHO there is no one right place and all others wrong. It seems there is some minor variance (on top of the toe rail, or on the deck) and both have pros and cons that I can see.

Will you keep your cabin top mounted tracks (the ones just outboard of where your once upon a time handrails where mounted) for your working jib?

Mephisto Cat sure is beautiful! and very motivating for those of us who are working on our own labor of love.

[Commander 147]

My name is Jerry Carpenter. As you can probably guess with a name like Carpenter I have had a hard time staying away from woodworking (not that I have tried to because I really enjoy woodworking) but working with fiberglass is new to me. So I really appreciate your explaination about your recore project.

I've been reading the plastic classic forum and Tim Lackey there recommends not reusing the skins and just doing new glass like you are planning. I look forward to seeing your completed project. I know based on the previous projects you have shared here that it will be well done.

Now that my shelter is built for me to work in I plan to spend a couple hours each night working on Destiny to get her ready for fall when prime sailing season returns to Florida. I have a lot to learn and a lot to do between now and then.

[Rico]

Rico,

Hey, have you mounted your new T track for your headsail combinations? You mentioned a while back, with great prelude photos, of where you may install the genoa track. I'll be installing my 8 foot genoa track in the future, still undecided at this point. IMHO there is no one right place and all others wrong. It seems there is some minor variance (on top of the toe rail, or on the deck) and both have pros and cons that I can see.

Will you keep your cabin top mounted tracks (the ones just outboard of where your once upon a time handrails where mounted) for your working jib?

Mephisto Cat sure is beautiful! and very motivating for those of us who are working on our own labor of love.

Chance - thank you for your comments! I am still deep in the installation process for the headsail track. I've made and painted some nice backing plates out of Aluminum plate and I will be drilling holes in the deck tomorrow! {'Shudder'}

I've sought some advice on all the pros & cons and I think I have a good set-up planned...
I'll be using a 4' length of track on the deck as the headsail workhorse track. (Winds in the bay are very consistent!) These will be used for my small stormsail and mostly for my working jib (100%). This set up will keep me from using the extreme ends of the track and will allow some flexibility in case I run into a slightly different cut sail needing a bit of a different trim angle / block location.

I will keep the tracks I have on the cabintop as spares. They are nicely located and easily reachable from within the cockpit. As such, they will be used mostly as convenient blocks for the storm sail when/if needed. I also may use them with the 100% if it is really blowing as they provide an easily accessible location that provides a nicely open jib top releasing lots of air. But mostly for the storm jib.

The genoa track will be a long (one piece) track mounted on the toe rail. This will provide flexibility for any size of large headsails I may run into. Certainly for my current sails (a 135% and my migthy 180%).

This set-up will keep my scuppers clear & unobstructed and will also provide a great attachment point for lines / fenders once I get myself a nice pair of schaefer cleats (Schaefer has a model that fits/slides right on the track).

This is the scheme (- so far today!) especially since I do not have lifeline stanchions to worry about...

I'll post some pictures soon.

[Chance]

Here's a couple more photos of the port and starboard amidship deck recore zones and some work I'm doing up on the foredeck.

Jerry (Carpenter), I'm sure you'll do fine with your Commander's glass work. By the looks of your boat shelter, she will be nicely taken care of while you learn and perform the work you intend to do. Reading and learning from others is a good start, but I have also found that sometimes practical application and practice is the best way to learn. Enjoy your endeavors and keep us posted.

Rico,
I have no doubt your genoa and jib sail deck mounted track installations will be nothing short of superb! I'm looking forward, as always, to your post with photos. Can you post a photo of the underside of your track mounting as well? Thanks.

[Chance]

Another area of the foredeck getting attention. For those that notice, the hex head bolt partially inserted in the cleat is just for alignment and to keep the cleat from being bumped around. I use scrap fasteners when I'm doing epoxy work and only upon final assembly use the correct fasteners. The actual fastener is four (4) 3/8 inch flat heads.

[Commander 147]

Sweet :-)

Your work looks very professional Chance.

[Chance]

FOR SALE- COMMANDER #256 WITH 2008 TRIAD TRAILER.
Do to a turn of events over a period of time, I am hesitantly placing my commander and trailer on the market.

First let me say that I no longer have a home computer, as I write this I'm at the public library. Because of this I have limited access to receive and respond via the internet. Best method, for me, is over the phone or in person.

Now the details:
Hull # 256
Year: 1966
Purchased in October of 2008 and hauled down from Falmouth, ME.
From inception, under my stewardship, she has been out of the weather, both rain and shine, and has her own boat port on my property.
It was my intent to direct all my spare resources, money and time, to giving her a new lease on life, which I have done for the past two years.
-All recoring complete and outer or inner as appropriate, faired smooth.
-All holes penetrating the hull have been properly glassed in, and faired, both inside and out.
-All chain plates were removed and new installed.
-Exclusive use of epoxy for all repairs / modifications.
-Exclusive use of Okume marine plywood was used where required.
-Forward cabin sole removed, and new compression post base installed.
-New compression post custom fabricated and has been fitted but not permanently installed.
-New bulkheads installed.
-Stock monel potable water tank still intact and in place.
-Removed sink and corresponding cabinet. Still have in garage if wanted.
-Cut out all fiberglass tubes and properly glassed in holes.
-New Teak hand rails have been made and properly fitted to contour of cabin roof, however not installed.
-Had port / starboard running lights re-anodized.
-Have new Schaefer mainsheet handling system with custom teak base. Not installed but, teak base has been fitted for contour of lazarette deck.
-Custom anchor platform machined from solid 3/8 thick 316 stainless steel plate
-Custom anchor platform supports of G-10 garolite installed.
-Custom anchor chain hause pipe of G-10 garolite installed.
-Foredeck modified for two (2) 10 schaefer deck cleats with G-10 garolite base. (This permits for both anchor and dock line fairleads)

The main thing remaining is the rudder needs addressed. Either replaced or fixed.
All the hardware needs reinstalled.
I have no main sail for her.
I have no outboard motor for her.

Price for both the commander and trailer: $5,000.00

NO- I will not separate.

Please call me direct at 252-435-7219 (Cell) or home 252-336-7441

Respectfully,
Chance

[Commander 147]

Chance it is a sad day in mudville when you are selling Ceili. And your trailer is worth the total cost you are asking and someone is going to get a real deal. I only wish my income was not at 15 year lows thanks to the current economy because otherwise I would grab her up myself and finish what you have started.

I wish you the best and hope you win the lottery so you can take her off the market. :-)

[carl291]

Chance, GOOD LUCK with the sale. Someone will be getting a great combination. boat, trailer and refurbishing work This is a horrible time to try and sell anything. If it would help, If someone was interested in the trailer only, I may be interested in the boat. As is the entire nation, my resources are limited at this time.
Carl Nussbickel

[Chance]

Here's some visual updates on work I have bestowed upon Ceili.

[Chance]

Here's some more recent work on the motor well area I have been restoring.

[Chance]

Here I have removed and completely replaced the load bearing foundation that the compression post rest on in the bilge.

[carl291]

Chance, Good to hear from you, as usual very nice work! I was wondering what or where you were with Ceili. This yacht will certainly be a better than new version of the Commander. Good Luck.

[ebb]

Chance,
Your photos are great to see,
and obviously you are a master with fiberglass.
You do beautiful work.

Hope you follow your genius through to splash
and see what she gives back to you!
THEN sell her if you dare!

Keep the photos coming.
They are a treat!


That's an impressive list of upgrades on the 'for sale' post!
I am glad you did not separate