Commander #256 (Ceili)

[Chance]

Ebb, your are so right. At times I contemplated on how I was going to tackle the recore from down under and looking back, should have kicked myself before removing the inner skin. All along it would have been so much more pleasant (if you can call the recore process pleasant) to do it from the outside.
Here is two shots of a smaller recore area I had to address due to rotten balsa core. The cause: (like so many other areas I'm taking care of) an inproperly mounted cabin top winch.

[Chance]

I decided to address an area that I wasn't satisfied with:

1st: I felt the forward hatch was not rigid enough to support the weight of an adult standing on it.

2nd: There seemed to be more flex in the hatch cover than I preferred

3rd: I never liked the translucent area of the forward hatch. It shows the glass fibers and as it has aged, appears as though the fibers are lacking resin. I know that my modification will eliminate the "light" that would otherwise come through, but it's a compromise I'm willing to settle with.


So.... I incorporated 3/8 " end grain balsa core and an inside lay up of three layers of cloth. The hatch pictured and that I'll be using, is one I salvaged off the 1965 Commander. This hatch had a heavier (thicker) glass layup to start with and had less damage to repair and no previous owner's holes to repair.

[Commander227]

Chance,
Did you salvage any inner window frames? I'm in need of one.
Mike

[Chance]

Hello Mike,
Yes, I can supply you with an inner portlight frame. Give me the details of where to ship (address) and I'll have it off to you this coming week.
Happy Easter!

[ebb]

You do beautiful work there Chance.

Somebody's going to come along here and discover that recoring CAN be done successfully from the inside - hanging by your thumbs. And there are good reasons for the choice. You certainly show that a perfect job of work is possible.

I admire your choice of core as well.
Fits with the time and age of the boat and is more in keeping with restoration. imco
Nice to see.

Thanks for the photos!

[Chance]

Ebb,
Thank you for the compliments. My inspiration and desire for quality work comes from a couple areas: a personal interest in attention to detail, the fact that I enjoy working at fixing, making better, and any thing that involves my little wood shop, now gone fiberglass. But if it weren't for folks like you, Tim Lackey and so many others, and a passion for sailing, I doubt that I would have ever agreed to undertake such a project.
Below are two photos of an area that I have been also addressing. I discovered that the lower perimeter of the Commander's motor well had a significant thickness of gelcoat. It seems that when the layup was started in the mold and the gelcoat was put in, they (Pearson layup workers) allowed too much gelcoat to collect in this area. The tell tale sign of trouble and which ultimately led me to grind away over an inch of this area was cracks around the entire perimeter of the motor well.
Gel coat is good, but it's downfall is realized when excess thickness occurs. It's too brittle and of not much substance. This is why I had massive cracking along the lower edge of the motor well.
I didn't reach glass until I ground away over 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch of blue gel coat. The second photo shows my rebuild of this area. Though not complete yet, I'm nearing the final stages and will once again be good to go.

[Westgate]

Chance:

I have to do a similar job to my motorwell/hull contour.

Any tips on producures and specific techniques would be most welcome. In particular how did you maintain that nice sharp edge between the side of the motor well and where it mets the hull? I have thought of a few ideas but would love to hear what you did.

Nice job,

Andrew

[Chance]

Andrew,
Thanks for your interest.
I used MAS epoxy, Biaxial cloth, milled fiberglass fibers, and West System high density 404 filler.

After grinding and establishing a good base:
Coat area with unthickened epoxy
Fill low spots, and make the roundover contour uniform with thickened epoxy and milled glass fibers
Sand smooth and apply three layers of Biaxial cloth
Sand rough / high spots
Apply thickened epoxy with milled glass fibers
Continue numerous applications
Once you get close / back to the area where you'll want the crisp sharp edge, start applying your mixture with a little more grace
Trick here: Go beyound where you want the edge to be and then grind back down to the hull.
Trick: for the corners, use a 1 inch wooden dowel rod and 60 grit paper. This will make a perfectly shaped /contoured corner. Sure you'll be using hand power, and it will take a bit of time, but it really comes out nice.
When I'm grinding, I use a 40 grit flapper disc wheel to perform the grunt of the work. Then transition to a 5 inch random orbital sander with 60 grit, followed by 80 grit and then 100 grit. Final sanding will be done by hand with a block of wood, my dowel (described above) and 120 grit. Lastly two more coats of unthickened epoxy, light sand and ready for paint.

I had initially thought of building a form, but decided for numerous reasons against it. Please keep in mind that it took me numerous applications to rebuild the corner edge that I had removed when I initially ground away all the cracked gel coat. I really could not believe how much gel coat was there. I kept asking myself when will I reach glass? No kidding!

Hope this helps.

[carl291]

Chance,
Since you are back to working this area, The new larger knee you put in, Have you given any thought to this interfering with engine clearance? The reason I ask is mine seems to interfered with the clearance and had a large "chunk" of glass knock out which of course allowed water in and will now have to be replaced.
Carl

[Chance]

Hi Carl,
That's a good point. I noticed that when I was examining the original backstay chain plate knee, that it too, had an area that was cut with a handsaw to make a relief for the outboard. Esentially exposing the plywood underneath, not to mention looking terrible. Of course when Pearson built her, the top of the knee was not fully encapsulated with glass and epoxy either, so any water leaking in from the chain plate cover would and did easily saturate the plywood.
As for my new knee I glassed in, actually it's probably only 1/4 of an inch larger for and aft, meaning I really didn't go forward off the transom much more than original. I did however extend her down about and inch and half (my measurements are best guesses at this point) beyound original. I generally kept the same profile.
The previous owner had a 9 HP outboard, way too big. This explains why they hacked other areas as well.
I will placing a 6 HP Tohatsu in her, (for size and weight considerations) and believe this will fit just fine, with no clearance issues.
What size of outboard did or do you have that there were clearance issues with the knee?
Thanks for the input. As you well know, any little project always seems to creep in size and sometimes can reveal a magnitude of challenges to overcome.
I also have not heard of any others out there that have had clearance problems if using an appropriate size (smaller) outboard.
Keep me posted on your efforts to restore you knee.

[Westgate]

Chnace:

Thanks for the how to. Will come in very handy if I ever find the time to get back to the boat!

Andrew

[Chance]

Here's the profile template I made out of bass wood. I'll be taking this to a shop to have duplicated out of 3/8 inch thick 316 stainless steel plate. I'll keep you posted and post a photo when that phase is done.

Some will also notice another modification I made to the forward hatch cover. I didn't care for how the original latch bolt was attached (you know, through bolted. Plus the FH fasteners were backwards. If you ever removed the piece you know what I'm talking about). My solution was to omit the through bolt phase and instead I made this mounting pad that I tapped to accept the #12 FH machine screws. I think it cleans up the whole area and will leave the top exterior of the hatch free from any fasteners.

[Commander227]

Thanks for the package Chance, I really appreciate it!

[Chance]

Mike, your welcome.

Here's a photo after having removed the garboard drain from the hull and have laid the glass to fill the hole. I am no in the final fairing stage and will post a photo when that phase is done. I also removed two transducers and filled those corresponding holes as well. I will drill and install one transducer for the depth instrument later in a better location than the one that was formerly.

[Chance]

I'm consulting those of you who have had chrome work done on your deck hardware and who were very satisfied with the results of who performed the chroming service for you.

I have my stemhead fitting and the stern light cover that needs re-chroming and would like recommendations on who I should contact and ultimately send these parts to.

For those of you who would be willing to refer me, please provide the name of the chroming company, their phone number (address would be of help too) and perhaps a point of contact.

Thanks for your assistance.