Commander 227

[Commander227]

I don't see how the Princess could be further improved, but you'll think of somethingt

The Princess could still use some help down below...some cabinets, board and batton head liner and such...in my minds eye I see Ta Shing Panda, but in my heart I know it will look like a 7th grade shop project. Finish carpenter I ain't.

Tony, why do you want to ditch your cast mast head fitting? Or do you just mean the big shieve? I tried to find some info on main halyard loads when I was choosing my blocks. Suprisingly I found most people figure it is equal to the outhaul loads. I know, it doesn't seem right and I'm not sure I believe it. I think the blocks I used had about a 600lbs working load. I'll let you know how they hold up. Of course we are building boats for different purposes you and I.
When you coming down for a sail?

Carl, keep the leads coming. I know they have talked to Chance, they may circle back to him. The owner of the boat out east that has been restored hasn't settled on a price yet. Also I heard that Sailorliz's boat is back on the market.
Your new Triton looks great. But Dude, you need to stop this ADD boat buying and settle on one boat!!!! How many are in your yard now?

[carl291]

Mike, I swear everyone is the last, 3 Electras, 2 Ariels, 1 Triton. The last Electra I got to too late, the owner whacked the keel off for the lead, but I did get a very nice mast and the bow stem fitting that I needed for the rescue of another Electra I rescued in CT,which will float this summer. the boat price was $250 including a new head sail, good coamings winches etc. etc.. Who could say no to that? At least this boat was only 90 miles from home. Excluding the Triton the rest have been either I rescue them or it's to the scrap yard. It is getting out of hand! LOL, Time to get on the water! The Triton will get a necessary refit of items to make it a safe passage maker and it will be in the Bahamas next Winter. If you know someone who wants a major Ariel project boat let me know, no interior , inboard model, all components included no engine.

[ebb]

Carl you are the absolute greatest

[Tony G]

If you know someone who wants a major Ariel project boat let me know, no interior , inboard model, all components included no engine.

That sounds like a perfect starting point for the next project! I keep thinking of ways to sway Frank to entertain some of the ideas swimming around my brain pan...

[carl291]

ebb, Thanks, These boats are national treasures
Tony, LOOK!!!! a blank canvas for you, the artist! Ariels are very roomy when they are hollow!

[Commander227]

So I raced The Princess a couple of weeks ago with the new asymmetric spinnaker... it went up slow as there was a ride in the halyard, it filled before I could get the tack line in hard so I had to pull really hard. I think I cursed. we gybed at the reach mark and the lazy sheet grabbed the neck of my beer bottle and knocked it over. I think I cursed again. As I doused at the leeward mark and the kite buried my poor sweetheart. I think she cursed. I was heading back to the windward mark with 460 sq/ft of sailcloth, 40' of tackline, 120' of spin sheets and 35' of halyard on the cockpit floor. My wife looked at me and said "this isn't very civilized". You know, she was right.
Here is my solution:
Facnor FX-1500 Code Zero furler
18" bow sprit
Under deck furling line
Believe me. This is a MUCH more civilized way to go downhill.

[Lucky Dawg]

Mike sees a problem and whips out a solution in a flash. Might you consider fixing the healthcare system?

[Tony G]

Mike,

I am so sorry to read of your mishaps! The horrid sound of a beer bottle bounding loosely around the cockpit and careening out of control just ahead of and out of reach of the hand had to be unbearable. Your wife was right, as I'm sure you realized immediately. After watching the video clip of your first gybe, which appeared flawless, one could only surmise that others to follow might be less 'graceful'.

Timing is working out great for me thanks to you. I have been drawing lines and cutting out ptterns for a bowsprit with the main focus being anchor rollers. So I have been leaning a little more toward resistance to a downward pull. But I have also tossed around the idea of a tack for an asymetrical cruising chute out there too. A fulrer is a bit more than I was planning but it makes perfect sense for 'Princess'. You nailed the proportions! It looks great. As though it was there all along.

So I gotta ask. Could you do a little write-up about materials, construction and what not? Did this set-up change whats going on at the mast head?

Standing by,

Tony G

P.s. About that summer sail...we just moved, again. PIA! The upshot is we down sized again, but we're still loaded down with enough posssions for a 32-35 ft boat. We're getting there! Belize 2013!

[Commander227]

Tony,
To make room on the masthead I just drilled and tapped for three 5/16" bolts deep into the top of the cast masthead and bolted on 2' 12ga. X 3/4" stainless square tube. I have the aft end sticking out so I can move my backstay to it and get a larger roach on my next mainsail.
(anyone want to buy a two year old main after this season?)
The sprit was a pretty simple addition. two pieces of 3/4" marine plywood bonded together. I picked this dimension simply because that matched the rubrail. it is through bolted with stainless threaded rod with the nuts counterbored and the rubrail covering them. it was installed with 5200.
The bobstay tang is just bolted through the bow. The way I see it, the sprit is mostly experiencing compression loads and slight side loads. My only engineering was to look at how flimsy a old Catalina 30 sprit is and build mine a little stronger. That sucker has been carrying a big old masthead 150% genoa for 30 years without any problems.

[mbd]

... anyone want to buy a two year old main after this season? ...

Yes! I could really use a newer main since I'll be going engine-less until I can afford to fix/repower. How much do you want for it?

[ebb]

Mike,
I've pretty much been blown away with what you've accomplished on your stretch Ensign! So I've had to keep my flapper shut.

And having read your description of that amazing bowsprit addition, in terms of materials, it is obvious that the bowsprit is integral with the toerail.
It certainly looks like you didn't changeout the original bow fitting - correct?
If so, then you must have added your ply stack in a kind of fork.
In other words you would have had to dap 1 1/2" deep into the flat area the bow fitting occupies by carving away the sides to land the extension. How much original material was removed?
Don't know if that is clear, but can you please explain how the connection was made?

What you have there I never would have conceived. Honest, I have stacks of info on every kind of bowsprit, from spruce, to metal, to carbon, that we might have expected to see on The Princess if we knew it was coming.
I also want a bowsprit on litlgull (A338) and have assumed from the beginning that it had to be a 3' POLE extension. Maybe not, now!
I have made two sprits, one of wood, one of aluminum, and both ended up too heavy in my mind. And cannot be installed.
Your invention is in keeping with the impressive and clean stripped-down day sailor The Princess has become.

I scrolled out a plywood V-shaped concept sprit in the beginning that more or less took its shape off the inside of the toerails, skirted the bow fitting, and terminate 3' outboard. Maybe I should go back to that.
Am persuaded anyway that original ideas, the ones you didn't think too much about, are probably the right ones.

I bought a used screecher from Bacon on impulse - just because I was totally impressed with the concept of the furler being integral with the sail. Don't know much more really, but now I understand it's a Code Zero I should be planning on. Screechers are cut for trimarans.

Why do you believe the sideloads are so light. Is it your sailing location? Plus the length of the sprit?
Do know that what I'm asking litlgull to do is very different from The Princess.
Any bowspeit on a cruiser has to be involved in anchoring.

SO, HOW did you attach The Princess' pretty beak.
Thanks!

[Commander227]

Ebb -
Imagine cutting the neck off this Flying Wedge guitar and trimming out the crotch to provide 1/4" clearance for the stem fitting. The inside surfaces of the tines could be beveled to match the shape of the hull/deck joint. Then if your lovely assistant were to hold it firmly in place (paying particular attention to keeping it in line with the shear) you could drill two holes using a 12" drill bit through a tine, the bow and, if you didn't bury too much of the bit in the chuck, out the other tine. Threaded rod could then be passed through these holes as a method of attachment. Of course I cannot see the harm in glassing in some blocking to the inside of the hull/deck joint or over-sizing the attachment holes and filling them with a stout epoxy mix of some kind. I guess pre paint job I could see myself glassing the Flying Wedge to the hull, but installing it with liberal amounts of 3M 5200 would perhaps give you the confidence of permanency you are likely looking for.
As the unmolested stem fitting and forestay are actually doing the work of keeping the mast up, one could look at a total structural failure of the Flying Wedge or its attachments as "trivial" or an "annoyance of sorts".

As you said Ebb, our boats are being put to very different uses. Given the fact that I can never be farther than 6.5 miles from my marina or half that to the nearest shore I can proceed with this sort of thing much more lightly and with much less fore thought than those of you who will actually go somewhere in your little boats. I think to add ground tackle to the sprit you would want a stay to the masthead to counter the bobstay.

Mike
C227
P.S. Good news!!! we have another Commander coming to our neck of the woods. A fellow who lives down the shoreline a mile or two from the marina found a nice fresh water boat from Cleveland on ebay. He is not sure of the hull # yet but it has the old style. companionway.

[carl291]

Mike, I was watching that Comm. on Ebay .... not to buy, but to see where the price went, that is a nice looking and equipped boat , glad it's going to a good home. Carl

[ebb]

Found a vintage Electra Flying Wedge but they wanted $350 for it,
so I may go with carbon fiber or maybe even G-10.

Trying to think how to connect the strings,
thought they might do double duty for the bob stay.
I can sing along to Swing Low Sweet Chariot going into a chop!

[Ariel 109]

I can't think of many better uses for a vintage Gibson Flying V guitar than as a bowsprit on a Commander plying the waters of the land of ten thousand lakes, except.....

http://youtu.be/wdDRCIEEZ3w