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Thread: The oft discussed outboard extra ballast revealed

  1. #16
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    Dec 2001
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    Central NJ, Raritan Bay
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    Sea Swine

    I guess #199 Ariel has the same arrangement as Capt. Amos, 'cause it has a smoothly sloping shallow bilge floor with the deepest part sort of under the sink, about 12-14 inches. There is a large oblong lead block under the soleplate near a rusty eye protruding from the bilge. It does not look too difficult to remove, but if it is a "counterbalance" for the outboard weight near the stern, would not removing it make the hull drag it's tail?

    Lively is probably good, esp. for racing, but I would still like to ride on it's lines too.

    Decisions, decisions......
    ()-9

  2. #17
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    Cool The plot thickens.....

    So Dan,

    #199 does not have a deep sump under the square access below the sink?

    I wonder if the drunk Portuguese at might have gotten carried away with the resin a time or few?

    Maybe like somewhere from 199 - 226 or so..... decided to glass the pigs in the deep sump?
    Last edited by c_amos; 02-16-2005 at 08:41 PM.

  3. #18
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    Orinda, California
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    The boat heals, the water line grows . . . get the weight out if you race.

  4. #19
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    Dan wrote: ". . if it is a "counterbalance" for the outboard weight . . " No, it was added to compensate for the weight of the missing Atomic-4 to meet an old racing rule and supposedly to equalize the ob with the inboard models.

  5. #20
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    Arrow Couple of pictures

    Here is the 'main' bilge access. It is the one just forward of the sink.

    As you can see in the picture, there is about 12" here. Probably the same as most others. The difference is that this is about the deepest point in my bilge.
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by c_amos; 02-27-2005 at 07:07 PM. Reason: Edit to re-size pictures

  6. #21
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    Forward bilge access

    Nothing of much to see forward, just the other little piggie hiding there.

    (sorry about the mess, the cabin is trashed as my poor boat is more of a hazmat locker/workshop at the moment.)
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by c_amos; 02-27-2005 at 07:20 PM.

  7. #22
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    The deep sump-less (free?) aft bilge access.

    The real point of interest on this tour is the third picture.

    THis is the aft most bilge access (under the sink).

    The upward slope (to the left in the picture) is going aft, it tapers down forward to the bilge pump (forward, or to the right in the picture).

    THere is no 'deep sump' on Faith, and the more I look at the glass down there, the less I believe there may have ever been one.
    Attached Images  

  8. #23
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    Winyah Bay, SC
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    Hmmm... Well, looking at your pics, if it was a post-factory sump fill in, whoever did it took great pains to do a nice job. What is the black spot which appears in the upper left part of the picture above? Any plans to do a core sample?

    Maybe Al Capone is in there? Or Blackbeards lost treasure? Does it sound solid when you tap on it? What about from the outside?
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  9. #24
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    Sep 2001
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    Hampton Roads Va.
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    Quote Originally Posted by c_amos
    Nothing of much to see forward, just the other little piggie hiding there.

    (sorry about the mess, the cabin is trashed as my poor boat is more of a hazmat locker/workshop at the moment.)
    That block of lead in Post #21 is not 'stock' !

  10. #25
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    Sep 2001
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    Northern MN
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    The glass work in 113's bilge never looked that good! I've got heavy (20 some oz.) roving as a finish surface down there. Yours looks like 5-6oz. cloth.

    Is your little piggy up front tapered top to bottom? It looks alot like mine with a heavier eye and laid on it's side.

  11. #26
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    Dec 2001
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    Central NJ, Raritan Bay
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    And this little piggy went home.....

    It took me a while to get around to it, but I finally decided to remove that tapered block of lead sitting on it's side in my bilge, the one with the small rusted eye bolt on it's side. All this time I thought it was securely glassed or epoxied to the bilge floor, but hel no it was just sitting there up against that rusty eye that goes who knows where. I just goosed it around with a crowbar till I could latch onto it with the main halyard and winch it out and onto the pier. I did not risk the rusty eye but rigged a line around it securely. Anyway I got about four hernias humping that lump down the dock and up to my truck. Good thing my bride was there to help me. And no wonder it never moved in the bilge - that little block must be 200 lbs. if it's an ounce.

    To celebrate, we took the boat out under motor, and just like Bill predicted, removing that block livened up our baby noticably, and we found it very sensitive to weight shifts fore and aft, and probably to rail meat as well. We are racing the Adele M like madmen this season, and we are currently in second place in the Wednesday night series, Division B, which has raised more than a few eyebrows around the clubhouse. They are calling our boat a 41 year old strumpet. Imagine. Tomorrow we race again, and will see how the leadless hull performs.

    ps: Thanks Bill for the racing tips. Ariels--OOH-Rah!
    ()-9

  12. #27
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    Central NJ, Raritan Bay
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    Pix

    Here is a shot of the little bugger. It has an interesting three taper shape, almost like it could be lowered into the keel as ballast. My keel under the soleplate is shallow and smooth like Capt. Amos' boat, and I neither know nor care what is underneath. This little guy was laying on his side under the rear hatch.

    It seems strange to say that a 5500 lb. boat acts twitchy without that lead, but it really does.
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by Dan Maliszewski; 07-21-2005 at 05:05 PM. Reason: reduce picture size
    ()-9

  13. #28
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    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
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    338's lead pig that came with the boat IS exactly like that one.
    It fits in the bilge (as 338 knows it) right at the end of the encapsulated keel.
    It fits right where you should have the bilge pump.


    The encapsulated keel does end, tho in 338 the encapsulating frp did not cover the end of the lead very well. This was a good thing because it allowed the keel to drain most of the time into the 'sump'.

    I think a a sump is necessary for this reason and to have a LOWEST point for the bilge pump hose. I would dig out whatever is in there to have the benefit a sump gives you and your boat. Which is to keep the boat and the laminate as dry as possible.

    Otherwise you will aways have a sodden bilge and a keel cavity with 5 to 6 gallons of water in it.
    Last edited by ebb; 07-20-2005 at 12:37 PM.

  14. #29
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    Nov 2002
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    Lutherville, Maryland (near Baltimore)
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    OK, here's a rookie, gentleman day-sailor question. I've found that it is great fun to bury the rail in a big breeze but my GPS indicates more leeway, less getting to where I'm going and more weather helm which I perceive as dragging the rudder. That's a long way of saying I think its slower. If I sail it standing up more it seems faster though less dramatic. Therefore, doesn't all that weight help?

    Also, I seem to have one of the few Commanders where the ballast has not been glassed in and the lift-rings are intact. Guess I got lucky.

  15. #30
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    Sep 2001
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    Orinda, California
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkipperJer
    Also, I seem to have one of the few Commanders where the ballast has not been glassed in and the lift-rings are intact. Guess I got lucky.
    The lift rings were left in on all the boats. If gone, a PO has removed them.

    PS - Sail trim will compensate for missing ballast in terms of keeping the boat upright. Lighter is faster, but not necessarily as comfortable. If you race, ditch the loose pigs. If not, leave them there to keep the family happy. #76 has extra lead (160 lbs?) glassed in just aft of the head. It keeps the bow down, but she's not quite as fast as the other racing fleet Ariels. Not a big problem, however, racing PHRF.

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