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Thread: The oft discussed outboard extra ballast revealed

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    Hampton Roads Va.
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    821

    The oft discussed outboard extra ballast revealed

    Here is a shot of the 2 pigs of lead from the deep sump , the one to the right would be furthest aft in the bilge .
    These are reputed to be in all outboard models . It looks like there was a steel lifting eye in each one , long coroded away in mine .
    These suckers are heavy , had to use main halyard to get to cockpit .
    I'm cutting them in half with a sawsall and will either remove or use for trimming .

    Mike G
    Attached Images  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Cape Cod, Massachusetts
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    132
    Thanks Mike! Now I know what to look for.
    Brent
    #66, "Dulcinea"
    Cape Cod, MA

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Orinda, California
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    Got $20 for mine at a scrap dealer

  4. #4
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    Sep 2001
    Location
    Rockville MD./boat kept at Annapolis MD.
    Posts
    168
    Bill,you took out your 200 lb. weights and race against boats with 325lb. Atomic 4s,thats real fair.
    Last edited by S.Airing; 06-29-2002 at 06:38 PM.

  5. #5
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    Sep 2001
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    Orinda, California
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    No one in his / her right mind races an inboard in this class, so no problem. All the YRA boats have removed the lead.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
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    722

    Question 'From the deep sump'

    Mike,

    I know this is an old thread, but maybe you can help me with a mystery.

    My boat, has no deep sump. It has been glassed in.

    I will post pictures of this, it has taken me a little bit to come to terms with this so please bear with me.

    When I first realized that this was the case, I feared I was going to be spending time chipping concrete like Bill Hoover did on #350.

    Careful examination of my waterline, and comparison with others on the site have lead me to believe that there is nothing down there to fear.

    My bilge just does not get any deeper then it is under the aft floorboard (about midships). That is where my bilge pump sits, and seems to be the lowest point.

    I can see the lead pigs that sit forward of this access, but none that would be aft of it.

    I wonder if some DPO (Dear Prior Owner in this case) has made #226 more secure by glassing the pigs into the sump>?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,546

    Thumbs up Get the Lead OUT

    If I might venture a guess:
    Hopefully DFO laid some frp over the lead he put in there to make it more convenient to pump water out from that low point in the boat.

    If that is the case, and the alteration was not serious - like filling the spaces around the lead with concrete or god forbid plastic or 5200 - then removal could be relatively direct.

    Mike could advise you on this.

    If I was faced with the problem, I would think how to break the encapsulating skin. Couldn't work with a chisel down in the sump. I might get an old stanley chisel, take the handle off and weld a stout rod to it, something you can cut to shorten if too long to hammer. Start chiseling at the corners, it could be a piece of cake.

    To chisel frp you need a very sharp edge. You grind a sharp rough edge on a wheel as often as it dulls, no need to dress the edge. A 1" chisel might be the handiest. You've got to find out what is in the space between the lead and the hull! Hopefully it's water.

    After you've chiseled the skin away:
    To get the lead out that has had the rings cut off, you might get the purchase you need to lift them by drilling a hole or two in the lead of the correct size to turn in a lag bolt or two. Or a large eye bolt. And MIKE them out of that sump!

    (It IS possible to get a small rightangle grinder down in there with a flat cutting disk or a small 40 grit wheel made of pieces. These make short work of frp but shoots out glass and dust into every corner of you and the boat. Getting your face and neck and lungs down into that would be daunting! Maybe later after the lead is out you would use the tool to clean up the hull, but the mess it makes can be depressing. So you think you'll find all the glass dust?)


    If the lead is somehow PERMANENTLY glued in, and all avenues of removal have been explored, there is one extreme method which may turn out to be fairly simple. That is to cut it out from the side!!!
    Last edited by ebb; 02-15-2005 at 08:04 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Hampton Roads Va.
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    821
    Amos,

    Do you have the access hatch under the steps/sink?

    The lead is about 2' down from there , so maybe a foot or 10" below the aft end of the bilge as you describe it . I can get you a measurement from a known point to where the drop should be
    I have my sump back there and down there and it takes a hell of a lot of water to fill it up.

    Commander 105 has be filled and/or glassed over too .

    I have a monel water tank under the floor boards and dont want bilge water near it if I can help it .

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    722

    Thanks

    Mike,

    When I look into that access hatch, the small square one just aft of the sink, I see a fiberglass blige.

    The bottom of mine is about 6-8" deep, and I thought that was all that there was. Looking at other boats, I learned I was really supposed to have
    the couple feet deep sump you speak of.

    My boat does not have that sump.

    At first I panicked, I flashed to visions of #350, and the concrete

    But then I got to thinking about having read this thread of yours, and the lead you removed.

    See, I have got two lead pigs, secured by boards under the sole. I thought those were all there were.

    Now, that you have confirmed that you took these two larger lead blocks out of that sump, I think I understand what was done.

    I think that some where in #226's past (it has lived there in Hampton Roads with you it's whole life until now) someone glassed the lead into the sump secure them, and...... I don't know, maybe prevent them from breaking loose in a roll over???

    I don't know yet what I am going to do about this, (if anything). The deep sump would be nice to have should I mount a tank below the sole as you have.

    Sure wish I knew more about how the job was done, or even exactly why.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Hampton Roads Va.
    Posts
    821
    Did you get 226 up in Hampton or York River Yacht Haven?
    Who was the former owners?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
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    722

    I bought it from Herb Tucker

    Herb lived in Hayes, VA just across the James River from Yorktown.

    He bought the boat from a man who (if I understand correctly) bought the boat from a charity (sea scouts?).

    The boats linage appears to be;

    Me

    Herb Tucker: Great guy. Replaced the combing boards, and some of the deck core. Painted the topsides and addressed the maintenance issues identified as problem areas in the manual. He also added some nice upgrades like the boards that span the center of the cabin and turn it into a large bunk.

    Unknown short-term investor: sold boat to Herb, believed to have bought boat from a charity auction and painted cabin and deck in an attempt to 'spruce it up'. This person does not appear to have owned the boat for long.

    Original owner: Herb met this man, and spoke to him about the boat. He apparently was a member of a local Yacht club and raced the boat in regattas. There might have been a few Arielís purchased at around the same time, and I do not know if they would have been out of Hampton or the other side of the bridge.

    I would place my bet on this owner as the one who had done this modification, or had it done. The condition of the boat shows it was well maintained, and the work was well done (much more consistent with the earlier malignance then with that of "Unknown short-term investor".

    I know Herb was moving shortly after he sold me the boat, but I will try to contact him to get more information.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    Asst. Vice Commodore, NorthEast Fleet, Commander Division (Ret.) Brightwaters, N.Y.
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    I gotta ask--why take them out?

    I remember seeing a rusty ring down in my bilge, glass all under it. Must be them pigs.

    Who are they hurtin?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Orinda, California
    Posts
    2,243
    The "rusty rings" in your bilge are connected to the boat's "external ballast" in the keel. The "pigs" are/were loose blocks of lead just sitting in the bilge. About 200 lbs worth to compensate for the missing Atomic-4. If you have an inboard engine, no pigs. Oink, oink.

    Removing the pigs makes the boat more "lively," which might not be comfortable for some. But, if you race . . .

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Hampton Roads Va.
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    821
    Ok, that was Herb's boat, I remember it well, was wondering what ever became of it.
    Good boat, It was around here forever and I think sailed out of Fishing Bay YC .
    where you keeping her ?
    Beaufort?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    722

    Post Mike, Pete, & Bill

    Mike,

    Yes, it was Herb's boat. I bought her and brought her down here to the New River (Jacksonville) NC. Good sailing here on the river, Hang a right on the ICW and you are out Topsail inlet, or a left gets you to Beaufort.

    They are supposed to dredge the New River inlet again here in a couple months, (I ran it once, last fall...... I would not recommend it).

    Herb was a good steward of 226, I hope the same may be true of me. I have re-tabbed the hull-to-deck joint around the transom, re-built the stbd corner that had been formed out of bondo (?) at some point, and am working my way forward up the decks grinding the gelcoat crazing and building epoxy as I go.

    My intent is to do the jobs, whatever I work on, to be able to meet a couple standards;

    Can I honestly say this is the right way to do this?

    Can I feel comfortable taking this off shore?

    Now, I know those are fairly subjective standards. I also know that 5 Sailors might have 10 answers on some issues. I am for the counsel I receive here.


    Commander Pete said;
    I gotta ask--why take them out?

    I remember seeing a rusty ring down in my bilge, glass all under it. Must be them pigs.

    Who are they hurtin?
    I am inclined to agree. I find de-pigged boats to be a bit tender, I rather like the stability of my boat. Ole Carl decided them pigs needed to be there, who am I to argue? No, the inquiry on my part is more about understanding what may be under that glass, and what all is SUPPOSED to be down there. Thanks to the input I have gotten, it is more clear now.



    Bill said;
    Removing the pigs makes the boat more "lively," which might not be comfortable for some. But, if you race . . .
    And I do. #226 finished 8th of 16 in our Fall series regatta, with a little help from PHRF, and a healthy field of DNF's (I may not be the fastest, but I can get off the bottom faster then much of the others ). Pretty good for the ole girl when you figure she had the disadvantage of bagged 40 year old sails and a sub par skipper.

    I wonder though, would not removing the pigs shorten the LWL ?

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