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Thread: The oft discussed outboard extra ballast revealed

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Hampton Roads Va.
    Posts
    821

    The oft discussed outboard extra ballast revealed

    Here is a shot of the 2 pigs of lead from the deep sump , the one to the right would be furthest aft in the bilge .
    These are reputed to be in all outboard models . It looks like there was a steel lifting eye in each one , long coroded away in mine .
    These suckers are heavy , had to use main halyard to get to cockpit .
    I'm cutting them in half with a sawsall and will either remove or use for trimming .

    Mike G
    Attached Images  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Cape Cod, Massachusetts
    Posts
    132
    Thanks Mike! Now I know what to look for.
    Brent
    #66, "Dulcinea"
    Cape Cod, MA

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Orinda, California
    Posts
    2,265
    Got $20 for mine at a scrap dealer

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Rockville MD./boat kept at Annapolis MD.
    Posts
    168
    Bill,you took out your 200 lb. weights and race against boats with 325lb. Atomic 4s,thats real fair.
    Last edited by S.Airing; 06-29-2002 at 06:38 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Orinda, California
    Posts
    2,265
    No one in his / her right mind races an inboard in this class, so no problem. All the YRA boats have removed the lead.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
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    722

    Question 'From the deep sump'

    Mike,

    I know this is an old thread, but maybe you can help me with a mystery.

    My boat, has no deep sump. It has been glassed in.

    I will post pictures of this, it has taken me a little bit to come to terms with this so please bear with me.

    When I first realized that this was the case, I feared I was going to be spending time chipping concrete like Bill Hoover did on #350.

    Careful examination of my waterline, and comparison with others on the site have lead me to believe that there is nothing down there to fear.

    My bilge just does not get any deeper then it is under the aft floorboard (about midships). That is where my bilge pump sits, and seems to be the lowest point.

    I can see the lead pigs that sit forward of this access, but none that would be aft of it.

    I wonder if some DPO (Dear Prior Owner in this case) has made #226 more secure by glassing the pigs into the sump>?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,549

    Thumbs up Get the Lead OUT

    If I might venture a guess:
    Hopefully DFO laid some frp over the lead he put in there to make it more convenient to pump water out from that low point in the boat.

    If that is the case, and the alteration was not serious - like filling the spaces around the lead with concrete or god forbid plastic or 5200 - then removal could be relatively direct.

    Mike could advise you on this.

    If I was faced with the problem, I would think how to break the encapsulating skin. Couldn't work with a chisel down in the sump. I might get an old stanley chisel, take the handle off and weld a stout rod to it, something you can cut to shorten if too long to hammer. Start chiseling at the corners, it could be a piece of cake.

    To chisel frp you need a very sharp edge. You grind a sharp rough edge on a wheel as often as it dulls, no need to dress the edge. A 1" chisel might be the handiest. You've got to find out what is in the space between the lead and the hull! Hopefully it's water.

    After you've chiseled the skin away:
    To get the lead out that has had the rings cut off, you might get the purchase you need to lift them by drilling a hole or two in the lead of the correct size to turn in a lag bolt or two. Or a large eye bolt. And MIKE them out of that sump!

    (It IS possible to get a small rightangle grinder down in there with a flat cutting disk or a small 40 grit wheel made of pieces. These make short work of frp but shoots out glass and dust into every corner of you and the boat. Getting your face and neck and lungs down into that would be daunting! Maybe later after the lead is out you would use the tool to clean up the hull, but the mess it makes can be depressing. So you think you'll find all the glass dust?)


    If the lead is somehow PERMANENTLY glued in, and all avenues of removal have been explored, there is one extreme method which may turn out to be fairly simple. That is to cut it out from the side!!!
    Last edited by ebb; 02-15-2005 at 08:04 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Hampton Roads Va.
    Posts
    821
    Amos,

    Do you have the access hatch under the steps/sink?

    The lead is about 2' down from there , so maybe a foot or 10" below the aft end of the bilge as you describe it . I can get you a measurement from a known point to where the drop should be
    I have my sump back there and down there and it takes a hell of a lot of water to fill it up.

    Commander 105 has be filled and/or glassed over too .

    I have a monel water tank under the floor boards and dont want bilge water near it if I can help it .

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    722

    Thanks

    Mike,

    When I look into that access hatch, the small square one just aft of the sink, I see a fiberglass blige.

    The bottom of mine is about 6-8" deep, and I thought that was all that there was. Looking at other boats, I learned I was really supposed to have
    the couple feet deep sump you speak of.

    My boat does not have that sump.

    At first I panicked, I flashed to visions of #350, and the concrete

    But then I got to thinking about having read this thread of yours, and the lead you removed.

    See, I have got two lead pigs, secured by boards under the sole. I thought those were all there were.

    Now, that you have confirmed that you took these two larger lead blocks out of that sump, I think I understand what was done.

    I think that some where in #226's past (it has lived there in Hampton Roads with you it's whole life until now) someone glassed the lead into the sump secure them, and...... I don't know, maybe prevent them from breaking loose in a roll over???

    I don't know yet what I am going to do about this, (if anything). The deep sump would be nice to have should I mount a tank below the sole as you have.

    Sure wish I knew more about how the job was done, or even exactly why.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Hampton Roads Va.
    Posts
    821
    Did you get 226 up in Hampton or York River Yacht Haven?
    Who was the former owners?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Central NJ, Raritan Bay
    Posts
    114

    Sea Swine

    I guess #199 Ariel has the same arrangement as Capt. Amos, 'cause it has a smoothly sloping shallow bilge floor with the deepest part sort of under the sink, about 12-14 inches. There is a large oblong lead block under the soleplate near a rusty eye protruding from the bilge. It does not look too difficult to remove, but if it is a "counterbalance" for the outboard weight near the stern, would not removing it make the hull drag it's tail?

    Lively is probably good, esp. for racing, but I would still like to ride on it's lines too.

    Decisions, decisions......
    ()-9

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
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    722

    Cool The plot thickens.....

    So Dan,

    #199 does not have a deep sump under the square access below the sink?

    I wonder if the drunk Portuguese at might have gotten carried away with the resin a time or few?

    Maybe like somewhere from 199 - 226 or so..... decided to glass the pigs in the deep sump?
    Last edited by c_amos; 02-16-2005 at 08:41 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brooksville, FL
    Posts
    714

    Commander ballast question

    I recently received the Ariel/Commander owners manual and maintenance guide and while reading it I learned something I did not previously know. It states that the ballast on the Commander inboard model is 2,500 lbs. lead casting set inside the keel and fiberglassed in place. But for the outboard model (which I believe is the way most of the Commanders were sold) there was an extra 500 lbs. lead casting which is portable and fits in the bottom of the keel.

    My question is this. If I repower an outboard model with an inboard can the extra 500lbs. be removed without major surgery?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    722
    Yes,

    Removal of the lead 'pigs' is generally not a problem. While Faith has the unusual 'inished' bilge, her extra ballast was easily removed (I wish I had done it sooner).

    Most Ariel / Commanders have the 'deep bilge' and the lead pigs are sitting down at the bottom of the bilge. Just a little bit of heave ho and out they go.

    You should find bunches of discussion on it, with pictures if you search on extra ballast.

    On edit;

    Here is one to get you started; http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussi...=extra+ballast
    Last edited by c_amos; 11-18-2008 at 05:22 PM.


    s/v 'Faith'

    1964 Ariel #226
    Link to our travels on Sailfar.net

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brooksville, FL
    Posts
    714

    Thanks c_amos for your quick reply...

    I tried a couple of searches before I asked the question but did not apparently hit on the right key words for the search.

    That makes me feel better about my future plans.

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