The oft discussed outboard extra ballast revealed

[c_amos]

Mike,

Yes, it was Herb's boat. I bought her and brought her down here to the New River (Jacksonville) NC. Good sailing here on the river, Hang a right on the ICW and you are out Topsail inlet, or a left gets you to Beaufort.

They are supposed to dredge the New River inlet again here in a couple months, (I ran it once, last fall...... I would not recommend it).

Herb was a good steward of 226, I hope the same may be true of me. I have re-tabbed the hull-to-deck joint around the transom, re-built the stbd corner that had been formed out of bondo (?) at some point, and am working my way forward up the decks grinding the gelcoat crazing and building epoxy as I go.

My intent is to do the jobs, whatever I work on, to be able to meet a couple standards;

Can I honestly say this is the right way to do this?

Can I feel comfortable taking this off shore?

Now, I know those are fairly subjective standards. I also know that 5 Sailors might have 10 answers on some issues. I am for the counsel I receive here.


Commander Pete said;

I gotta ask--why take them out?

I remember seeing a rusty ring down in my bilge, glass all under it. Must be them pigs.

Who are they hurtin?

I am inclined to agree. I find de-pigged boats to be a bit tender, I rather like the stability of my boat. Ole Carl decided them pigs needed to be there, who am I to argue? No, the inquiry on my part is more about understanding what may be under that glass, and what all is SUPPOSED to be down there. Thanks to the input I have gotten, it is more clear now.



Bill said;

Removing the pigs makes the boat more "lively," which might not be comfortable for some. But, if you race . . .

And I do. #226 finished 8th of 16 in our Fall series regatta, with a little help from PHRF, and a healthy field of DNF's (I may not be the fastest, but I can get off the bottom faster then much of the others ). Pretty good for the ole girl when you figure she had the disadvantage of bagged 40 year old sails and a sub par skipper.

I wonder though, would not removing the pigs shorten the LWL ?

[Bill]

The boat heals, the water line grows . . . get the weight out if you race.

[Bill]

Dan wrote: ". . if it is a "counterbalance" for the outboard weight . . " No, it was added to compensate for the weight of the missing Atomic-4 to meet an old racing rule and supposedly to equalize the ob with the inboard models.

[c_amos]

Here is the 'main' bilge access. It is the one just forward of the sink.

As you can see in the picture, there is about 12" here. Probably the same as most others. The difference is that this is about the deepest point in my bilge.

[c_amos]

Nothing of much to see forward, just the other little piggie hiding there.

(sorry about the mess, the cabin is trashed as my poor boat is more of a hazmat locker/workshop at the moment.)

[c_amos]

The real point of interest on this tour is the third picture.

THis is the aft most bilge access (under the sink).

The upward slope (to the left in the picture) is going aft, it tapers down forward to the bilge pump (forward, or to the right in the picture).

THere is no 'deep sump' on Faith, and the more I look at the glass down there, the less I believe there may have ever been one.

[CapnK]

Hmmm... Well, looking at your pics, if it was a post-factory sump fill in, whoever did it took great pains to do a nice job. What is the black spot which appears in the upper left part of the picture above? Any plans to do a core sample?

Maybe Al Capone is in there? Or Blackbeards lost treasure? Does it sound solid when you tap on it? What about from the outside?

[Mike Goodwin]

Nothing of much to see forward, just the other little piggie hiding there.

(sorry about the mess, the cabin is trashed as my poor boat is more of a hazmat locker/workshop at the moment.)

That block of lead in Post #21 is not 'stock' !

[Tony G]

The glass work in 113's bilge never looked that good! I've got heavy (20 some oz.) roving as a finish surface down there. Yours looks like 5-6oz. cloth.

Is your little piggy up front tapered top to bottom? It looks alot like mine with a heavier eye and laid on it's side.

[SkipperJer]

OK, here's a rookie, gentleman day-sailor question. I've found that it is great fun to bury the rail in a big breeze but my GPS indicates more leeway, less getting to where I'm going and more weather helm which I perceive as dragging the rudder. That's a long way of saying I think its slower. If I sail it standing up more it seems faster though less dramatic. Therefore, doesn't all that weight help?

Also, I seem to have one of the few Commanders where the ballast has not been glassed in and the lift-rings are intact. Guess I got lucky.

[Bill]

Also, I seem to have one of the few Commanders where the ballast has not been glassed in and the lift-rings are intact. Guess I got lucky.

The lift rings were left in on all the boats. If gone, a PO has removed them.

PS - Sail trim will compensate for missing ballast in terms of keeping the boat upright. Lighter is faster, but not necessarily as comfortable. If you race, ditch the loose pigs. If not, leave them there to keep the family happy. #76 has extra lead (160 lbs?) glassed in just aft of the head. It keeps the bow down, but she's not quite as fast as the other racing fleet Ariels. Not a big problem, however, racing PHRF.

[Dan Maliszewski]

I, too, have added about 90 Lbs. of lead weights down in the lowest part of the anchor chain locker, to keep the tail from dragging when we have sailing guests astern. It also keeps the nose down in a chop, but it probably adds to the hobbyhorse action, being closer to the end of the hull. A trade off, but not a huge problem. BTW, we finished fifth of seven, good enough to maintain our second place in the standings. It was a four mile race with three knots of shifty wind, not an Ariel's best day, but fine for the B division winner, a Hobie 33.

[eric (deceased)]

the eyes were not eroded so I was able to lift them both out.I believe I gave them to a boat builder for ballast.the lost weight was more than compensated for with the inclusion of all the canned goods water fuel etc

[ebb]

Hey Dan,
I've read that in small boats especially that weight concentrated in the middle will CAUSE the boat to hobbyhorse.

With 338's remake, adding all the stuff and contemplating adding more stuff - my only reasoning has been to add weight thruout the length of the hull.

Anybody experimenting with this? I'd like to know!
EG, with 3 in the cockpit, would it make sense to

move weight below

toward the bow to create more punch and less lift?


If this reasoning is correct,
do you regatta racers do this?

Wouldn't it help to keep the waterline longer
for the continuous speed you must have?
(less horsing around)

The bow of the A/C is really the only location
you have to increase waterline length. Yes?

[tha3rdman]

Old thread I know, I was looking up info on weather helm, and got side tracked. The bilge on 97 looks identical to the pictures above, A nice glassed over shallow bilge, no deep sump. She was never gutted though theres seems to be a fair ammount of "aftermarket" glass work, most notable around the deck/hull joint.

So does the above boat have a glassed in blige, like 97, maybe because the are both inboard hulls? or did someone glass in 97's blige?