The oft discussed outboard extra ballast revealed

[eric (deceased)]

Ya kno' its like I sez before----the lead pigs were removed to allow for more provisions.If ya' read the part about how I removed the v-berth cushions to allow formore storage space-----well picture this----8 five gallon sparkletts bottles in the v berth----4 each aligned amidships on eachside.now --as the water was used -----what to do with the empties???? hmmmmm----lesseeeee-----the vp-os plotting sheets-----with a felt tipped indelible marker(aka:sharpies)---I wrote notes on these sheets-who what where when----put them in the bottles----secured the plastic top reall good with sealant and duct tape-----man nowyaz" gotta real *****in message in a bottle----note -----this was done during the way back---outhere in nowheresville---1n 1985.where dooyaz' tink dey b' now?????????????/------totally encrusted with marine sea growth------turned crazed yellow by the sun----- probably half submerged by the shear weight of the encrusted barnacles-----or washed up on some tropical atoll------where my mind is when I think about it

[Commander227]

After reading the recent posts on this subject I ran out and looked under The Princess's skirts and found this!!!!!
It measures 32" long, 10.5 " wide (12" forward & 9" aft) and 5" deep. Thats 1680 Cubic inches of lead!!! One cubic foot of lead(1728 CI) weighs 708 lbs, so even with the side relief cut and the triangle cut out of the bottom for water passage it's got to be at least 500 lbs. It has 2 lifting rings, one fore and one aft and is set in with glass tape between the two sole hatches. 12" wide and the sole hatch measures 11.5", it'll be a trick getting it out.
I had looked at and wondered about it with mild curiosity, but did not know that extra ballast was added to some boats. The boat is so stiff I'm sure I won't miss it if I can Rubik's cube it out. I guess it would be worth tearing up the sole if I have to.

[Tony G]

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!

Barring the 'concrete' bilge posted a few years back, I do believe this is the largest pig discovered in our collective bilges yet. No lipstick needed-she's a natural beauty.

Be careful when you peel up that sole. I found a little rot on the main bulkhead and look at what that lead to... Seriously though, the 3/4" sub-sole extentds under the forward riser by the main bulkhead and under the aft riser in the galley area on the Ariels. I don't know how those areas differ on the Commanders but if it is more similar that dislike removal will require a little finess, glass grinding and hidden screw removal. Nothing insurmountable.

[SkipperJer]

I don't have pictures but I have the same block with lifting rings in my Commander. I've noted as have some of the local Ariel owners that my boat seems to sail stiffer in a breeze. I may pay a price in light winds but get it back when its blowing. I also put the outboard down in the cabin for racing and have moved the battery to dead center under the bridge deck.

[Tony G]

So I must be hullcentric!?! Somehow I missed that fact that there seems to be two different types of pigs in the bilge. The fact that Commanders appear to have the single big pig versus the more common two pigged Ariel find leads me to believe that I have been reading with prejudice

Public humiliation...

[SkipperJer]

The difference comes from the fact that the compensation ballast in the Commander is making up for the lack of an inboard motor and the weight of the extended cabin of the Ariel. Most PHRF systems give a different rating to each boat indicating that their weight (when sailed with the designed weight installed) isn't quite the same even with the installed lead. The somewhat old information in the chart on the Pearson Information page notes this:

http://www.pearsoninfo.net/info/phrf.htm

The Ariel scores an average PHRF of 255.5 and the Commander 250.5. I know that current numbers used by local sailing clubs on the Chesapeake are 252 for the Commander and 257 for the Ariel.

Sadly, nobody registered an Ariel or a Commander in the Chesapeake Bay Yacht Racing Association in 2008 (CBYRA runs the major races on the bay). A number of them ran in Wednesday night local races in smaller clubs. I intend to put my Commander out there in 09 in the non-spinnaker class. I don't expect to win but I'm looking forward to a number of good days on the water with some friends.

[ebb]

For the record,
A-338 came with a form-fitted 120# pig with an iron ring in it exactly like the rings I cutoff that were sticking out of the 'encapsulated' ballast. It is shaped like Mike's (post 37) to fit right behind the end of the glassed-in ballast in the bilge.

Somebody must have really hated this little piggy because there are a bunch of hammer marks embedded in the S.O.B. top!
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________
The pig is 9" long - 7" tall - and 6" wide at the wide end.
Bathroom scale weight - 120#
A cubic foot of lead comes in at 708#
A cubic inch at .40969# at room temp.
Getting an estimate of the weight of the added pigs doesn't help with the curve of the bilge, does it? But maybe you could ballpark a guesstimate by averaging the angle at 45 degrees.....?

[commanderpete]

Wonder what I have under there.

Its all glassed over and looks like a shallower bilge than 227

This picture was taken from underneath the stern-most floorboard looking forward

http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/a...1&d=1142982282