Fruits Of My Labor (A-113)

[Tony G]

Kurt, you're there!

My latest google search for solent stay brought up a page with Super Duper Joe Cooper (as I like to call him*) using a multi-purchase block system and high tec lines for both the tensioning and the stay. There was a photo of the 'stay' after some use and it looked pretty worn where the hanks had been working but Joe states that when they stress tested the line to failure it actually parted somewhere other than the worn spots. I believe it was vectran and sspectra lines they used. Now I'll probably find out in a couple of years that this sort of set-up is absolutely outstanding and dependable but right now I just worry that the lines will wearout too quickly. Although it would be easy enough to repair/replace as long as the sails or other equipment doesn't get damaged beyond feild repair.

I was going to add pictures but here is the link. http://www.practicallysailing.com/bl...ailing-rigging

I don't think a pelican hook has the strength we're looking for. Ironic isn't it as they are part of the 'life line' set-up. Figure 9.5 above is in the Pardey's Capable Cruiser 3rd ed. (diagram courtesy the www). I did buy the book and they claim it can easily be made using stainless or bronze and a bandsaw. ?Don't they realize that people like me buy their books? I'm leaning in that direction.

*Joe cooper was the 'customer rep.' that I dealt with for 113's new mainsail and foresail. He would actually check in with me to see how things were going and give me an update on sails and stuff. He was a real personable guy and has a great sense of humor to boot.

[Commander227]

I agree with Epiphany,
We have been replacing wire standing rigging and lifelines with spectra and relatives more and more. Its cheap, incredibly strong, easy to throw in an eye splice or a bowline, you can keep a spool on board and replace anything your self on the go. There are coated varieties that are better with the UV or you can use Rob line or similar and have the spectra core and a nice UV and abrasion resistant cover.

[ebb]

fiber (from the Dynamica site).
5/16" has a 6600# breaking load which is about equal to wire of the same dimension.
If steel wire can take 6500 50% breaking loads (....before what happens?)
Dyamica, dyneema can take 10 million cycles at the same 50% level. That's their comparison.

Very little stretch. If it breaks it won't whip like steel wire.
After two years of constant UV exposure 80% of strength is retained.

Bends recommended at least 5 Xs diameter of rope. Bends for 5/16" Dyneema should be minimum 1 1/2". Sheaves and/or thimbles. Visavis Joe Cooper's experiment.

Defender has a Samson dyneema called Am-Steel-blue for $2.09 ft.
This 5/16' rope has a 13,700# breaking strength. Just repeating the numbers.
It's a 12 strand braided line.
Defender price for 316 1/4" 1X19, 6900#BS = $3.09.

later post....
[Dyneema is seen as an all purpose polyethylene rope. Versatile, bullet proof, floats in water, 40% stronger than Kevlar.
Climbing, towing, mooring, hanging, winching, standing rigging, running rigging.
and picking up on your next post here - why not LIFELINES? Both on the stanchions and tethering a life-ring.
Wouldn't it be nice if our backup rigging is a spool of blue plastic rope that can be used for nearly everything?

Would you do the standing rigging with soft eyes?
Which begs the question, if Dyneema is sensitive to UV why not parcel (friction tape)l and serve (marline) it in the standing rig.
I'm positive galvanized wire is still parceled and served somewhere. Dyneema's downfall is everything SHARP. Serving it would stiffen and protect it.
Real Dyneema comes from Denmark or Greenville NC and is heat set and coated with polyurethane.]

Anybody care to compare wire rope VS Dyneema in terms of replacement?
Dyneema's loss of 20% strength after two years UV exposure IS SIGNIFICANT imco.
But what has happened to 316 stainless in that time period?
Is the Dyneema (as standing rigging) signicantly easier to replace??? Does the mast have to be lowered to do it?

Have to see a tutorial on replacing stainless steel wire with Dyneema rope on an Ariel/Commander.
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________
Dyneema and Spectra are the same, yet not the same.
google>
PDF Spectra & Plasma Ropes Introduction Puget Sound Ropes (PSR) began...
This paper will give you the lowdown on this fantastic plastic rope.

[Tony G]

That's good stuff there, Ebb!

Well 20% is significant to me also. What about four years? I trust my ability to assemble a Norseman fitting or similar correctly. My splices? While I see them as inherently beautiful and a miraculous feat when I finally crank one out, I would not be as confident knowing my standing rigging is relying on my splices. I do like the idea of a complete standing rigging on a spool in the cockpit locker! My standing rigging was upped to 1/4" two years before I bought her and it has spent it's life indoors since then and I'll bet it has a good bit of life left in it. If it aint broken don't fix it.

I will serioulsy consider using high-tech line for tensioning the solent. Rethreading a couple of blocks every couple of years seems entirely doable for me. I mean, come on, there's only one splice to complete.

I would think replacing standing rigging could still be done one stay or shroud at a time. I just don't want to go up the mast when it's swinging and I can't afford to pay someone else to do it!

[ebb]

10 characters

[ebb]

I've always thought the skinny 3/16 wire rope littlegull came with was.... skinny enough!
I'm upweighting to 1/4".

The thing that gets me, as the host on anything sailing.com said... you could tack your genoa and have the crossing sheets melt your forestay.
Suffice to say that even UHMWPE is still a plastic
and very vulnerable to anything hot or sharp.

I feel that creep is a problem too. High static load deformation.
Instead of turnbuckles to have adjustability you have to go with a clippership inspired deadeye system using thimbles. Joe Cooper.
I feel all those turning points are not really healthy for any rope.

They say you will have to replace Dyneema standing rigging every 4 years in the tropics. Because of UV degrading that the blue polyurethane coating can't really stop.
Not what a cruiser wants to hear. But maybe some can hack that.

Somebody with a pocket knife can bring your mast down!

10 characters

[Tony G]

Well at long last. Pretty insignificant but it is square to the centerline and plumb based on the water lines!

There is a 1/2" styro pad between the hull and the bulkhead. Standard fare here, all of the edges were sealed with two coats of epoxy. My scribe job on the top edge left a lot to be desired but we'll fill the gap with thickened epoxy before we tab the top to the overhead. I 'planed-out' two two inch wide bands to accept the tabbing on the aft face. One layer of stiched matting and one layer of 7 oz. glass. The new position of the bulkhead is just forward of the original, heavy tabbing layed by Pearson on the forward edge of the chainlocker. Being their tabbing added a good quarter of an inch I didn't feel the need to use roving on this side. The forward side will get the glass, matt, roving, matt lay-up to add thickness and strength to the forepeak.

That opening looks tight but I can fit through it alright. Maybe I should find a small monkey that would like to travel...artemia salinas