Commander #65 "Lucky Dawg"

[Lucky Dawg]

I think I mentioned intending to buff out this paint job to address minor imperfections. If I said so, I spoke out of turn. Interlux sternly warns against buffing Perfection because as the finish cures, the resin rises to the surface and is a thin protective film that also acts as the glossy finish. In short, if you buff it, you take off the shine and diminish / destroy the protective finish that the resin provides.

Given that, I will be inspecting what I want to sand and recoat and what I can live with - there will be a little of both. Port side of the cabin, aft of the port portlight is the only problem area that I intended to fix with buffing.

Non-skid looks great. Picasa link in the posts above is updated through non-skid application. "Paint, sprinkle, paint, sprinkle, thin paint" is the application process. I can detail further beyond that hyper-brief direction if anyone cares to hear more. Came out very even.

Came up a quart short this weekend - and not another quart to be had within 100 miles. 5 quarts was plenty, but a couple coats I could have planned better for what to do with leftovers or choosing when to mix a partial batch. So I may have thrown away nearly a quart with various leftover quantities. Intended to be finished painting on Friday and haul her home to reinstall hardware, etc. in the driveway. So running out was frustrating. I had enough to finish the cabin top, so I could get started with reinstalling hardware there, if not all over the boat.

With my paint miscalculation, it will be a mad dash this week to get her launched by Saturday for a Monday sail. Still the plan...

[SkipperJer]

I got the same story from Interlux concerning their basic Brightside: buffing diminishes gloss and durability. When I talked to the person on the toll-free tech line I asked if they got that question often. He replied that they did. I noted that fact indicated that it might be a good idea to warn users not to buff in the product directions on the can or the product info sheet on the website. He really didn't have a response for that. Duh.

Given that experience and the fact that I was about to apply Cetol I decided to call the number for Sikkens Cetol. Lots of other boaters I know advised me that, "putting Gloss on Cetol is a waste of time and makes work." Cetol guy on the phone found this a frustrating "rumor". He reported that quite a bit of the UV protection is in the gloss. The gloss also slows evaporation of the base color coat. They consider this a two part system that is not complete without application of the gloss. What makes it more durable than varnish from their point of view is that one part seals the wood and provides color, the other slows evaporation and reinforces sun protection. By separating the tasks they feel they get better overall performance than varnish at least in terms of durability. I replied that you'd never know that from reading the directions on the can(s). This guy was at least aware enough of good customer relations and communications to admit that this was a problem.

[ebb]

That's a google
Boatdesignforums has an exchange on that.

I can find nothing in the yachtpaints.com data sheet warning against buffing.
However a full cure will take two weeks. More the better.
The guys on the boatdesign form mention that.

Another points out that the gloss micron layer on top which provides most of the coating's promised protection will be compromised if buffed, that is if you take the shine away with the buffing - as you say.

Another guy says don't use anything under 2500 grit ! ! !

It's understandable you want to protect the gloss.
So why can't you wax-n-buff when it's 99% and you have to have 100? Not removing anything except the last polish and wax.

I think that if you want to get a mirror gloss like fancy concours cars get you have to use an acrylic urethane (yachtpaint's AwlCraft) used for autos, made to be sanded and sanded, clear coated & buffed. (Awlgrip's Awlcraft data sheet specs that the system has a clear coat and the coating is buffable.)

Color coatings have to be solid color. But maybe the top reclining molecules in the Perfection color gloss could arguably be transparent.
A perfectionist might try to sand and recoat cured polyester layers if each had a flattening agent mixed in. Sand to perfection then lay on a last coat of color gloss.
I see NO clear gloss in the Perfection data sheet.
To achieve concours imco you have to clear coat!
BUT neither of these two (single stage) linear polyester urethane coatings can be sanded and buffed in the classic sense.
Can't say I understand a damn thing anymore the way paint chemistry seems to blend everything together. But maybe the slightly cheaper acrylic urethane is more crystalin in structure and therfor can be BUFFED?
Kyle, the assumption here is that Perfection is a polyester urethane. Do we know this as a fact?
If it is an acrylic urethane then perhaps it actually can be sanded and buffed like Awlcraft 2000.
After the stuff cures for two months.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________
A 3rd FRIENDLY ALTERNATIVE:
System Three makes a waterborne WR Linear Polyester Urethane Topcoat.
This two stage system (there is a clear coat) presents no serious safety issues.

According to the Description & Application Guide it looks fairly easy to build up coats
(if you must) by putting coats on without a particular additive, and sanding,
then finishing up with a coat with a crosslinker in it. That sort of stuff.

Wouldn't know about comparing the gloss with the LPUs mentioned above,
but they all seem to promise equal performance.

Thinning WR-LPU is with water and the coating can be SANDED & BUFFED
if you put on four coats of satin color, two of clear for gloss*, then sand and buff.
Quote:
"If a higher level of gloss is desired the cured coat may be sanded and buffed. Wet sand with 600grit sandpaper proceeding in stages through 1500grit. Buff with a compound equivalent to 2500grit and finish with a product similar to 3M's Finesse-It."

.....And this is explicitly printed in the SystemThree application quide.
Not inconveniently left for forums to discuss or making a disappointing phone call.
(S.3 is also available for help throughout the workweek.
The CAVEAT. WR-LPU is notoriously difficult to use anywhere south of the 48th parallel. You will require 65/70 degress and 85%humidity.
Bateau2 - Builder Forums guys complain System 3 should have more explicit guidelines on ap temp and humidity. Some have to flood their shops !!! with water to raise humidity levels. Everyone will agree that WR-LPU is a cold weather paint.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______
* On my planet we can't put a coat of clear or color over another without sanding - wet sanding usually. That means more total coats AND more time.
It isn't concours that drives us, it's just getting rid of the bugs, zits and dust specks to make it smooth enough for the next stage.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______
"The end stages of Boat Building Disease can make a strong man cry."
Gary Frankel- Cockpit Confessions, Pacific Yacht Magazine (newboatbuilders.com)

[Lucky Dawg]

No, as Jerry points out, the application instructions say nothing about not buffing, but if you read the "finishes" forum in the interlux/yachtpaint site, the tech rep who moderates the forum says over and over what I posted above. "Buff at your peril!"