Red Pepper

[mbowman]

Hey guys! I am new here and this is my first post. I've been in a partnership on a 1966 Ariel for 3 years and it is "finally" mine! all mine! We've been sailing it in the warm waters of Moblie Bay, Alabama (great sailing by the way) but have just recently pulled it out and up to the Birmingham, Alabama area. No more salt water! YEAH! While it is on the trailor, the bottom has to be done. So i'll be asking some questions as I go. The hull looks ok but I did notice some spongy glass about one foot from the rudder at the very bottom of the keel. that is drying now, but i'm concerned about the "wood piece that the rudder goes in to" (not sure of the name of that) It looks like water has seeped in there and is now dripping out. I'll try and get some pics tomorrow that may shed some light on the subject.
it is great to see a site of "real" sailors.
any help is appricated.
thanks
mike

[Bill]

Welcome to the group. What is your boat's hull number?

Please use the search function to research the hull's water seepage. Try "keel voids," "rudder shoe," and etc. Then post your questions.

[eric (deceased)]

unless yours has been modified. that spongy area near the rudder will be eternally draining water until that enclosed section of the hull is dry. how long has it been in the water??thats how long water has been seeping in. probably from the wrist pins thru the goudgeouns and the rudder shoe itself.I had an ariel for a while and have done some single handed sailing on these boats---so I think I know at least somewhat about these very fine vessels indeed.I will soon be in the market for one----again.the rudder post is brass or bronze--let the rudder dry out and grind out the rotted areas and then fill it in and coat with a fine grade epoxy.a long time ago I simply used "Gluvit" and it magically sailed from california to hawaii and back.dont ask me where I was when I turned east----to this day all I can figure is that I was about 600 miles south east of kodiak---and it was cold enuff to be so.besides----those things are for big ships and planes---so get those ludicruos thoughts out of your mind----thats what I was told by people who to this day cant believe it--you know---we really didnt land on the moon --did we???

[c_amos]

Mike,



Welcome aboard! How did the partnership work out for you? Have heard of folks doing that, seems like there are some potential problems with the arrangement... glad it worked out for you.



As Bill mentioned, the 'search' function yields a wealth of knowledge on most topics. Part of the issue is that you can't see all the threads, it also has to do with the problem with some of the information being buried in other threads with different topics being discussed.

but I’m concerned about the "wood piece that the rudder goes in to" (not sure of the name of that)

I believe that the piece you are referring to is the 'rudder shoe' which is actually made of bronze.



Good luck, and welcome to the support group...... come on everyone....



"Hello Mike"!

[Sprite]

The previous owner of my boat changed everything to bronze

John

[mbowman]

hey guys thanks for the post and the information.... rudder shoe ? well ok that makes sense!
Comments on the partnership: well the advantages are the cost. instead of you fittin the bill alone, it is shared. thats about the only advantage i see. the disadvantages are multiple. and i think all in our party will agree. First, when a "work day" is scheduled not everyone can show up. 2nd "Can we just decide on one way of doing this!" (that happed more than once). 3rd "Is it my turn to clean the boat." 4th "IT didn't look this way when i left it!" The list goes on. Even though the cost of this boat is only my responsiblity, it is still MY responsiblity!

Well i went down to the boat yesterday and sanded and grinded for a while. Turns out there was water between the hull and the Keel. Is this common, and how does it get there. PICS will follow! I put 2 holes at the bottom of the keel that I am going to have to repair. but at least i know where the water is from.

After I post some pics.. i'll ask some more questions.
Again thanks guys .... i was wondering where i was going to get some help like this

[mbd]

"Hello Mike"!

As Bill mentioned above, check out the Keel Voids thread.

Welcome aboard.

[mbowman]

[This is a continuation of my first post. Again, thanks again for all the good info on the problems with the water in the keel and rudder shoe (yeah! i know what to call that thing)
I was out sanding on the bottom and i found some weeping and dripping from the keel. Also very soft glass foward of the rudder shoe. (photo 004) I cut that out and found the wet foam (photo 006) after cleaning out the wet foam i noticed the rest of the glass looked to be strong and sound. repairing this should be no problem. I have a friend that sells the new foam that is put in the new bass boats for strenght and floatation. i am thinking about putting that foam in the void before glassing over it.... any ideas concerning this ?

[mbowman]

While sanding forward of the damaged part, i noticed more leaking with soft glass. So why not! I cut that out also. I found the mother load of water. water was trapped between the lead and the glass hull. looking at other post this doesn't seem to be unusual. Over a gallon flowed freely. (photo 008) after cutting away a small bit, I found the lead, the cavity forward of the lead, and the very small amouth of foam under the lead. (photo 016).
Again i am thinking about spraying that expandable foam in the void forward of the lead, and just under the lead. sanding, then reglassing the damage.
any advice would help!
thanks
mike

[mbowman]

Oh yeah here is a few pics of the boat. My brother Alan and my son Scott on Mobile Bay, Ala. then me and my son .
Photo 017 on the trailor, then 018 ........ Its new home!
more to come later.

mike

[eric (deceased)]

in case you already did not.SAILING AN ARIEL TO HAWAII AND BACK.this is the latter half of a two part tell-all true account of my "5 year voyage----to search out new life---and new civilizations----TO BOLDLY GO WHERE I NEVER HAVE GONE BEFORE!!!!!{sorry---thatza "play" on that startrek thing}

[ebb]

Hello Mike, Alan, Scotty,
Got yerselves a real special project thar.

Wonder what caused those soft areas? Fiberglass just doesn't go soft normally so it has to be from physical damage, like the boat got dropped, or run aground.
Advice would be common practice. Grind away all loose material. Grind the hull up and around from any wound in a graduated fashion so that when you layer it back together your patches go from smaller at the holes to larger on up to the final layers. Maybe ten times larger, final layer. When you fair the hull after it's set, you'll be grinding some of it away. But you still want to end up with a wide patch over a small hole.
I personally would use a good 100% solids laminating epoxy.
But I'd be asking why do you want to put chicken foam in the voids? If those hollows don't go back very far why not stuff them with epoxy mixed with cabosil and chopped strand. Or you could copy what Pearson did and jam in resin soaked fiberglass with a broom handle. I just think more structural is better down there.
Once lamenting the poor choice we have for space fill with my resin supplier he suggested styrofoam pellets and epoxy with a little thickner if needed. I've never yet tried it. Urethane foams are not closed cell and will let water in.
My favorite glass is Knynex X-mat. A well behaved material made of a couple layers of mat and oriented strand loosely sewn together. Said to be just as strong as glass cloth. It has been versitile for me. Regular mat doesn't work with epoxy.
Itching to have fun, huh?

[eric (deceased)]

in 1981 I paid 8900 bux for my ariel.it included a somewhat functional yet dysfunctional "10 hp merc" outboard.{too big and too heavy for my intented purpose---too clumsy to replace and remove from the outboard well for the necessary long term intervals}.it was eventually replaced by a more "user friendly" smaller outboard---this "mariner" 5 hp was interchanged to the achillies inflatable at the same time.when I sold it after ---well---you know---I got 4500 for it{monitor sold separately}.I also got 6000 nautical miles of mostly single handed blue water long distance ocean crossing voyaging out of it.the cost of the preparation for that can not be estimated.but the wealth I acheived in the means of personal gain is priceless.jus'what does an average run of the mill ariel go for these days???jus' the simple vessel----I wont buy a boat just because of its included toys.I will get those myself later.whass'that the brokers always say in the fine print----"SPECIFICS BELIEVED TO BE CORRECT BUT NOT GUARANTEED"{that means the 300 feet of anchor line specified in the equiptment list is more like 100.}

[mbd]

... My favorite glass is Knynex X-mat. A well behaved material made of a couple layers of mat and oriented strand loosely sewn together. Said to be just as strong as glass cloth. It has been versitile for me. ...

Hey Ebb, where do you get your supplies? A local store? Online anywhere?

[mbowman]

Sailing to Hawaii in an Ariel ? wow what a trip!
Ebb, Thanks for the tips patching the hole. start small and work out... i got it!
Runnin aground was common for my two other partners...... So the soft glass could have came from that.... also the boat was on the trailor for quite some time and could have had some stress on the lower keel.

my next post will give a little history of the Red Pepper

mike