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Thread: Ariel #97

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    Asst. Vice Commodore, NorthEast Fleet, Commander Division (Ret.) Brightwaters, N.Y.
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    Rudder looks good to me. I've always doubted whether the rudder can be completely encapsulated against water intrusion over the long term. But, yours looks fine.

    Seems to be water weeping from the keel void on top of the rudder shoe. Pretty common. Difference of opinion as to what to do about it, if anything. Wouldn't bottle it up and prevent it from draining. Not sure if its getting in there, or getting out there.
    Last edited by commanderpete; 03-31-2006 at 02:38 PM.

  2. #17
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    Havre de Grace, MD
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    Water behind there (the rudder shoe - new term for me) would explain the busting out around it (rust scale, and maybe a freeze crack), no?

    Sound like a damed if you do and damned if you dont as far as tring to seal it up.
    #97 "Absum!"

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    middle earth
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    Exclamation water is inside the hull

    go to any boatyard that has boats on the deck and you will see water coming out of those same congruent places no matter what size the hull.that area of the hull is subject to all the turning forces---that the boat has experienced from the beginning of its creation.I had my ariel on the deck for as much as 6 months at a time---I was "chased out of the water"{read my full unabridged newsletter}water dripped out contiuosly.you need to sandblast the entire suface below the waterline including the rudder.{at least use a soft pad rotary sander}eventually I removed the rudder shoe and the hinges from the hull---- I drilled out the wrist pins---- water flowed freely from these places-----I gather these places are also where the water came in-----after several months on land I used a grinder to open up some surface crazing-{this crazing radiated out from the rudder shoe --it was more than just on the surface it went too deep for comfort}----I tried to dry the areas up with acetone- I even used a hole saw on a drill to bore a hole in the floor of the bilge where the lead pigs were---in an effort to allow the water to escape this encapsulated area of the hull--and it was closed with seagoing epoxy----then I filled the areas on the outside of the hull with polyester glass and resin----then replaced the wrist pins with brass thru-bolts and used sea-going epoxy to re-bed these under water fittings.dont you know---after all of this----drip by drip-----water still found its way out. {thats why I used the under water epoxy}ya jus' cant win.perhaps the best way to dry out a hull is to leave it in the desert for the summer---then seal it with epoxy.also---a note to all---I am very seriously considering another ariel as my next boat---I have a considerable amount of experience with these boats and I feel that I am somewhat capable of single handling these boats---well ya kno' theres some islands that are some miles off the mexican coast that I spent some time sailing to--around--and back.... from california....nothing too terribly extensive---you will all know well beforehand if and when this occurs
    Last edited by eric (deceased); 04-01-2006 at 12:56 AM.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
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    3,549
    A plank rudder should not be encapsuated
    Mahogany is a stable wood and doesn't shrink or swell all that much under water - or in and out of the water viz wintering on the hard. When making a new one, befor assembly it would by good to seal all sides with penetrating epoxy.

    A plywood (using maranti eg) composite rudder would benefit by being covered with fabric and epoxy.

    'Search' may be helpful in locating on this site what others have done about water in the hull. I believe the Manual covers it too. You have to decide how much you want to do for the boat.
    Sandblasting is pretty radical. Sanding/grinding rather tedious. It depends where you have the boat, if in a yard you may be severly limited by what you can do. Any blasting/grinding/sanding requires you to tent the boat.
    338 had her bottom removed down to the gel coat with very little fuss considering it was my first time with StripAway. May have the name wrong. It is a fairly safe paint on stripper goop that you apply VERY thick and cover with a plastic/paper scrim (part of kit) and let it sit for a day. It works. After you get the bottom down to the white gel coat you then can access what to do. At least you can then barriorcoat and put on a fresh new antifoul bottom.

    A couple of owners had to rebuild the bottom corner of the keel where the rudder shoe is mounted.
    Last edited by ebb; 04-04-2006 at 09:52 AM.

  5. #20
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    Mar 2006
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    Havre de Grace, MD
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    I had a chance to speak with the previous owner, he and I didnt get to chat long I had to get to class. BUt apparently he and his brother have owned her for the last 16 years, the Atomic four that is in her is not the original belive it or not they picked it up in the 80's for 250 dollars, and rebuilt it in 1993. There were a few spots on in the deck they had "repaired" by removing some of the deck and slathering the rotten wood with epoxy ( ) oh well guess that means when I get to do it the right way i'll have to grind all that stuff away.

    ( I post this more or less for future owners of #97, a history of sorts)
    #97 "Absum!"

  6. #21
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    Mar 2006
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    Havre de Grace, MD
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    This is the shelf in the V-Berth, this doesnt look "factory" the entire forward cabin is laid-up in this finer weave. Any thoughts why?
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by tha3rdman; 06-12-2006 at 06:18 PM.
    #97 "Absum!"

  7. #22
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    Mar 2006
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    Havre de Grace, MD
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    Another addition, seems to be Oak, but why they would paint it ??? Stain and varnish. The Strong Back seems to be ?original? and teak.
    Attached Images        
    #97 "Absum!"

  8. #23
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    Mar 2006
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    Havre de Grace, MD
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    The mess! Jody has taken on the task of stripping, sanding and fairing the V berth.
    Attached Images  
    #97 "Absum!"

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Orinda, California
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    2,251
    Quote Originally Posted by tha3rdman
    Another addition, seems to be Oak, but why they would paint it ??? Stain and varnish. The Strong Back seems to be ?original? and teak.
    See strongback removed from a boat in Ebb's photo gallery. Original strongbacks are NOT teak. It and the supports are oak, and most were painted . . .

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
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    Gee, doesn't look half bad at all, the forepeak! Wait til you get to be 40 and we'll see what you look like!
    The compression bulkhead looks pretty good too. Put a rafter square to the doorway see what out of square you got. Look for rot in the beam. Ice pick or sharp pointed knife up top. If this beam and the braces have not been addressed by a former owner, you really should check this area out. (ebb's a bad example of what to do to fix a sagging cabin top under the mast.) The Manual has the tried and true method. And there seem to be a dozen others. But if the rigging wasn't holding its tune or set, you can't really sail the boat with any confidence. imho It ranks with the rudder in importance.
    See if the cabin top around the mast seems dished out or flattened.


    What Bill is refering to, maybe, is that, specifically, when 338's white oak compression beam came out there wasn't a bit of rot anywhere on it. There was some deterioration of the plywood where the chainplates are. 338 had a sagging doorway, the door wouldn't close. The trim was bulging.
    When I unscrewed the round maststep (2 giant bronze screws that went thru the mast step, thru the deck and into the top of the beam) - when I removed them the cabin top popped up and became round again! (Man, that fiberglass has SOME memory to it!) It has been my opinion that after 40 year of being stepped on and pressed on by the mast and rigging the inside bulkhead structure merely settled slowly over many seasons, even shrank a little.
    There was some balsa core rot under the mast where the wire holes let in mast condensation and water, but it wasn't really significant. 338 definitely had a flattened cabin top, though.
    By the by, how are your decks? Enjoy your posts!
    Last edited by ebb; 04-09-2006 at 08:12 PM.

  11. #26
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    Mar 2006
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    Havre de Grace, MD
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    Decks?? You really ment Trampolines. They arent weak enough to fall through yet but you can tell the sanchions for the life lines has let water into the balsa and has it rotted enough that thats a project either this season or next.

    So why the finer fiberglass up front, was this typical or someone tring to do something?
    #97 "Absum!"

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    middle earth
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    120

    the more proper term

    I never heard the term "strongback" until I joined this forum.I think the more proper term is"arch step" and its associated 4 compression posts.{2 vertical and 2 diagonal}.Also---if 338 was tony benado's boat---I distinctly remember seeing 2 extra heavy vertical compression posts{they appeared to be teak} added to the existing ones---with the words"sailing for peace" engraved into them.
    Last edited by eric (deceased); 04-10-2006 at 05:50 AM.

  13. #28
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    Sep 2001
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    San Rafael, CA
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    3,549
    g'mornin eric,
    Must have been a different one. My 338 (known as Sun Quest when I bought her) had no teak anywhere on her. Sailing for Peace, huh?

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    middle earth
    Posts
    120

    Exclamation it was 228 not 338

    jus' chekt the search mode.I remember those ventura daize well. they were magik---an'sumwer tragik. I cant believe I am so close now----in nevada---I gotzta' go bakn' givum' hell.hoo'noaze maybe'll fine' myole' bote'n' gitterbak.OH--AND--HEY!!!! I MYSELF NEVER GOT THE FULL UNABRIDGED ACCOUNT OF THE NEWSLETTER.DID ANY ONE ELSE READ IT????
    Last edited by eric (deceased); 04-11-2006 at 03:22 AM.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Havre de Grace, MD
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    207
    I noticed in the floor of the cockpit was a Bung for the gear box shifter, is this original, seems like a bad place to have a hole while underway.
    #97 "Absum!"

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