New Generation Anchor

[CapnK]

<raises hand>

Oh oh oh! I know the answer!

Ebb - Do a SEARCH!

(Finally, *I* get to say it to someone else, for once... )

Check this thread: http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussi...1&page=3&pp=15

Of the "new generation" anchors, I've used the Bulwagga, not a rollbar type, yet it works *great*.

That thread links to our discussion, and also a discussion on the CSBB that is embedded therein.

Thanks for the opportunity Ebb.

[ebb]

W h a a a l ,
Just trying to get specific about this type.



I think I understand the scoop rather than plow concept - the roll bar rather than the weighted tip - the compact and improved delta blade less likely to foul because of the rollbar - the versitility of the anchor in diverse bottoms meaning fewer anchors/weight in the bow of a cruising Ariel.

There is very little feedback on the net. Much is based on cruisers saying how much they love their Bruce or their Bull or their CQR. Since 338 is not sailing yet, thought I'd ask. Get an update.

I done know, this is a danforth crowd, right?

Some designs are winners just because they look right. The Supreme will look comfortable in a roller on the bow, and it's got that convenient handle built right in.

Ahh, but I was once impressed with my imported 35# Scotts plow - until I saw it being pulled along on its side in a test - and then saw it pulled along creating a farmer's furrow never digging in. (Very interesting that Manson also makes a copy of the CQR and it is featured on their web site. They have a little movie of their best seller setting in the sand without a bit of fuss. Wonder why? Another point is that they only show the black-tails-and-tie Supreme in stainless steel, and no testimonials. Have to find out elewhere there is a galvanized version.)

Of course you can cook the tests, and some of the claims for this rollbar scoop are extreme and unproven, but
...had to start somewhere!

And just today got a a 25# Manson Supreme from a dealer in south Florida!

[CapnK]

Went and checked out the Manson website, Ebb. Looks pretty good, very similar to the Rocna. Hate it when a company won't put a price on their product! How much does a 25# Manson cost? I bet it's close to the Rocna's price, a bit more than the 17# Bulwagga I intend to get later this year...

These new designs do look as if they'll work. Wish that the marinesuperstores would have some "try before you buy" anchors for our own testing. That way we could do our own testing, in our usual ancoring grounds, and see how the things work in real life...

Have a friend, Bahamas-bound in another 10 days, on a 31', 8,200# fin keeler. He's been a boat owner for a little over a year. His ground tackle consisted of 1 13# Danforth-knockoff, with 10' or so of chain thimbled to 3-strand rode, and another smaller setup of the same. I told him he *needs* a better, much bigger anchor - maybe 2! Saw him yesterday. He bought another anchor of the same kind/size that he already has. His response to my query? "Oh, it says it is good for boats up to 30'...". I just shook my head and told him "Good luck", since he might just need it... He bought an EPIRB, and inflatable lifejacket things, but balks at the cost of a good anchor. Go figure.

[ebb]

G'mornin, Kurt,
Brakes do seem to me too as important as the sails, let's say. Not possible to be casual about the hook, like some seem to be. Experience rulls on this and one's relationship with the gods. As I clear a spot here with that morning cup of Pero a postum note surfaced with a list of NEVER SETs (maybe from the Max anchor site?):

Did not set (dig in) in mud:
bruce, cqr, barnacle, danforth, fortress, digger, spade.
And again I'm not sure that the rollbar spades would either. We need uptodate impartial extensive tests again that includes these.
I don't think that Practical Sailor's 'farm pond' method (as one wag put it) can cut the mustard with cruisers any more. I personally can't see that pulling anchors horizontally with trucks is useful either as a test.
And the real world testing with huge anchors and tug boats, while better, for sure, don't seem to address accurately anchors and anchoring for small to midsize sailboats. One cruser diving down to take a look at his set describes other boats 'anchored' with their cqrs laying on their sides at the end of their chain!

Got my anchor ordered from Wayne at Azure Marine, who was rather vague about the price for a 25# Manson Supreme, galv. The Supreme is relatively new for Manson, and I think he deals mostly larger hooks.
$165. 1-964-062-4515.
which seemed pretty reasonable for an import. He based his price on a per pound cost of all the Manson anchors he flogs. So I said, if it's within $20 don't call me. It could be more. Have to add UPS, which from south Florida to Sonoma California he estimated would be around $45.

OK, for the dippers here, I am not recommending this product in any way. I have no experience with this anchor or any past dealings with the Azure Marine outfit.
I'm skeptical about the "dual shank" design in terms of the stress points where shackle would bear on the anchor. I talked with the Navico (Plastimo)
importer about the photos on the Manson site ("Dual Shank Anchoring - How It Works") purporting to show a Supreme being pulled out from coral (looks like a piece of concrete to me) with the shackle slid down in the "tripping" position. I said, it looked to me that the point of the spade would still be pulled upward because the pull is still on the lever arm of the shank. Like you guys, sometimes, he don know what I was talking about.

[Manson is clear about the material used for the shank: Bisplate 80 (ASTM A514) a highly alloyed low carbon plate that doesn't bend under load, easily.
"Good weldability and Excellent notch toughness" Notch toughness? Maybe that answers some concern about the shackle points on the Supreme shank.
But not clear about the blade. One also has to assume the aussies know how to hot dip galvanize, a nearly lost art in the USA. So, choosing which rollbar spade, I went with the company with a great reputation for anchors.]

[c_amos]

Here is a link to the "Manson Supreme" website.

[ebb]

Thanks Craig!
(sorry, somehow the text doubled)

[ebb]

Thanks Craig!
You'll see what I mean in the last photo of the series on the Supreme 'how it works' page. The chain is being held up at what look like a fairly correct angle to an imaginary deck - but look at the spade, it is still pointed up. Wonder if it could have pulled backout like that if it had gotten wedged in a cranny?

That shackle groove needs to turn the corner and continue down to the blade. That of course would make the anchor dangerous to use. The only retrieval solution for rock or coral is a conventional bouyed line fastened somewhere to the back of the blade, or maybe the back of the shank. We'll see.

If we are looking at a hotdip galvanized anchor above, THAT is a spectacular coating. Assume it is not the 316 stainless that supposedly is available - but Wayne did not have prices on s.s. versions and they are not mentioned in the site text.

Another point to look at is the rollbar. It is free standing assume welded(?) to the blade. Can you crack a weld with a bang on the rollbar? You betcha! Welds are notorious for defects too. If seawater ever gets inside, it will rust the tube - unless they galvanized the inside (which can be done) befor they welded. Unlikely.
This is a good reason to go stainless, but 316 is not high-strength low carbon alloy plate, and would result in a bendier product. There is a relief hole drilled into the bar for galvanizing - will that let seawater in? Why not, it gets in everywhere anyway.


Maybe second generation Supremes will have the rollbar attached to a slightly different shank design that would allow the pipe to be attached also to the shank at the center of its arch. That would stablize the welds of the rollbar on the blade. Could design the rollbar with holes so that when the completed anchor is galvanized the zinc will coat the inside of the pipe. We will see.

In the mean time have they got your money?
Have they got your boat, more to the point.

[eric (deceased)]

but how long will its stay so shiney???and sorry folks.....but there is alot to a name...theres something about the name"manson" that makes me think twice about anchors....welllllllll,jus' stab me in the back!!!!! everything here is just so helter skelter!!!!!