New Generation Anchor

[c_amos]

Chance,

Don't know if this helps any, but I have about the same set-up, probably a bit more weight in the anchor roller, and I have 55' of 5/16" chain. I noticed no effect from the weight up forward. In the context of a loaded crusing boat I do not think the difference is AS significant. Some talk of 'hobby horsing' with weight at the ends... never saw it aboard our boat....

[ebb]

Craig,
Could say that 5/16" is 1 ton stronger in WLL, (the breaking strength is two tons greater!)
at only 25% more weight: 1/4" at 73# and 5/16" at 103# per 100 feet.
Good numbers.

Let me ask you:
If you were going Pacific for example would you carry chain - and what length?

If you had a long length, how would you handle it? Haul it in with a chain pawl? Manual windlass? How would you let it out?
I'm imagining I'd have to get some leather palm work gloves on, trip the anchor, sit on my butt bracing against the pulpit and try to control its descent.
(Actually, I'd have it rigged somehow for dropping the anchor off the bow from the cockpit. But I'd probably have to haul it in as described,)
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This is a later post (4/11/09)...... so it won't pop up on the main board.

It is confirmed that Peter Smith, maker, inventor (if you must), of the Rocna Anchor HAS SOLD THE BUSINESS (to an unknown buyer). The new owner is indeed having anchors made in China. Evidently they have been experimenting with casting the complicated shape of the Rocna fluke (trying to cut fabrication costs?). But welding or attaching a steel alloy shank to a cast blade is a big problem.
For me, the simpler shape of the Supreme is a big plus and obviously for Manson a simpler fabrication. It is a 'break through' design because of its simplicity.
Practical Sailor, up to its old tricks in anchor testing, has a really annoying 'test' by a"world cruiser" in their Dec08 issue. The guy is said to have "tested his new Supreme in anchorages rated Good for holding." Big red flag!
The guy is prejudiced toward Bruce/Claw/Ray type anchors which he has had a load of experience with. Look at the cruising sites on the internet and that's what you find: guys stuck on their favorite CQRs and Bruces. They are used to handling them, they fit in their bow rollers, they look right. Why would I be influenced by a single report - even if the guy is a "PS contributor"? It's only an opinion (of a "world cruiser") Teeny red flag! Not taking any respect away from the guy - it is the PREMISE that doesn't hold bottom!

[Chance]

Gents,
I have ordered my 20 foot length of 5/16 HT chain and it's in the mail.

I was concerned about the weight accumulation and subsequant "hobby horsing" effect some experience. It appears I have no worries. Now, I'm debating with myself weather I should go with 200 feet of 1/2 nylon vice the 150 foot length. With a typical safe scope payout of 7:1, this would suggest that I'm limited to a depth of no more than approximately 23 feet of water. I know, there are many varibles and that at times a 7:1 is not practical (over crowded anchorage), limited swing room, and at other times this scope would not be sufficient, gale force winds, looming storm, strong thunderhead. These conditions would support a scope of more like 10:1 to better the odds that the anchoring set up will do it's intended job, all else being equal and working correctly.
I don't have the nylon yet, and by the rate at which my refurbishing is going, won't need it anytime soon. Still, I like to plan ahead and dream of when the time will come that I too, can "SWING" on the hook and enjoy!

[ebb]

A good subject. The net cruisers talk about it a lot.
I'm not sure there is a side to lean toward unless I am to be persuaded totally by the weight issue.

A certain length of 5/16", or a couple, certainly solves the WLL "weakest link" problem.
Extreme cruising might require an all chain rode but it may be unnecessary.
(Larry Pardey in the Self-Sufficient Sailor argues for 30' 5/16" BBB and nylon line. His intent is to prevent the rode from from pulling the anchor shank upward. Long scope and kedging.) BUT I'll study what he says - again - soon.

What are the pros and cons of the argument in relation to small cruisers such as the Ariel and Commander?

What is the best line to use and what diameter? EG: Nylon has been seriously called into question because of its elasticity, ease of chafe, and melting under load.

Any credible sites deal with this?
Trustworthy sources?

[Chance]

Ebb,
Good, thought provoking questions. It is my understanding, and by no means am I an expert on the subject, but...
selecting a balance between some chain (a leader for weight to reduce and upward pull on the anchor's shank, to serve as as type of pivoting arm that absorbs some shock, and chafe protection from the sea floor)
Nylon rode's benefits:
1) help manage weight
2) Will absorb some of the shock load and will (by design) stretch a bit (this is a good thing) when hard lurching strains are placed on the anchor system. The key here is assuming a diameter is chosen that is not too big, otherwise we loose the benefit of the stretch effect)

Of course, it's prudent upon the Captain to manage "Chafe" while using nylon.

Also, a bridle assemby is of primary benefit, it aides in centering the anchor rode's line of pull with the steam head fitting as well as splits the load placed on the chafing points. In essence a properly rigged bridle will provide a back up should one side be chafed through and will minimize the bow's tendacy to sway from port to starboard and so forth when the rode comes off of the bow "not" on center line, which virtually impossible anyways with the forestay in the way.

I'm sure there has been "limitless" discussions all over, and articles written about all this, but I can't quote any site specific, sorry.

We mustn't forget that one could conceivable have the "ideal" and "best" anchor system setup and then it all goes to the crab pot so to speak because of improper or unknowledgable deployment, setting and monitoring, etc..

[Bill]

From Scuttlebutt:

ANCHORS AND ANCHORING TECHNIQUES
Choosing an anchor for the 2009 season? Anchors come in a variety of types, Fluke, Claw, CQR, and the Fisherman. Each has their own strengths and weaknesses. This week’s newsletter (http://myboatsgear.com/newsletter/200788.asp) looks at each anchor type and their modern equivalents. We also provide some anchor test data and links to reports. This information will help you pick the right anchor and size! RSS feeds are available at http://myboatsgear.com/mbg/index.asp

[ebb]

I feel that in terms of impartiality the language in above website (myboatsgear) is a proxy for the Mocna anchor. I would not be surprised that the whole piece is written by Peter or Craig Smith as there is a direct put down of the Manson Supreme - and familiar phrases and hype from the Mocna web site. The Smiths have populated a number of websites on the net supporting and advertising their anchor (including this Forum) - many of them imco irrationally and blatantly attacking the Supreme.
Conversely, Manson, to my knowledge, has never attacked the Mocna anchor.

The Mocna anchor business has been sold to new owner.
As I understand it, the anchors are now made in China and the complicated fluke/blade is now cast with the plate shank welded on to that. This is hearsay, but it is also, if true, a serious development with a once promising anchor.

Unsupported opinions are not impartial or trustworthy.

IMCO The website above (myboatsgear) is a disguised and irresponsible advertisement for the Mocna anchor. BEWARE.
I'm NOT saying that there is no good general knowledge about anchors and anchoring here taken from other web sites. I am saying that there is a definite skew toward making the Mocna seem the best choice.



There is no proof or test that has shown the slotted shank of the Supreme causes it to be weak. The slot may be whimsical but the shank and indeed the fluke are both fabricated from a T-1 steel alloy equivalent that has amazing attributes.