safe bottom paint time

[cjackson]

Last time I checked two part epoxy resin products are some of the most toxic things on the planet, and the whole darn boat is made of that...and we're all gassing it off, grinding it, and otherwise spreading particulate fibers of it into the atmosphere all the time...

I guess I'm just playing devil's advocate...but if you start on Bottom Paint, where do you draw the line on toxic products Ebb?

[Mike Goodwin]

These old boats are made of polyester resin .

[ebb]

'Lo Chris,
Let us start at the BOTTOM, with the bottom.
All positive changes in our toxic life style
start with attitude chamge.

Maybe we could translate our American 'frontier spirit'
into pioneering a profit based non-poluting culture.

We wait until plain-to-see-coming disasters develop
befor changes are made. Changes are happening but
it's slow going because life styles are based on Money

rather than Ethics.

EG, when I go to the Farmers Market on Sunday,
I buy my fruit and vegies not from vendors who have
banners that read Certified California Grown Produce
but Certified California Organic Farmer.

There's no way I can persuade truly evil corporations like
monsanto, philip morris, dupont, dow, ama, fda onto
a path of enlightenment. But I jnow they are the bad guys
and One Day we will prevail and erase them.

The right way is to consciously take care of our individual
toxic wastes. There's a small chance the government and
the corporations will follow.


Oh.... Support Small Business
and never NEVER buy anything advertised on TV!

[cjackson]

Ebb,
I agree with you completely on the "act locally, think globally" issues. I just had to play the Devil's advocate and test your resolve a little... Myself I work for a natural resource conservation company now that I'm no longer with working for the Admiralty of Uncle Sam, polluting away for profit. Perhaps I've grown too untrusting and cynical of all the, power and money hungry corporate monsters....I've got an attitude more like Montessier I think, I'm going to do what I'm going to do, but in the end the Monster is going to destroy us and we'll have to start over.
The pop culture, cell phoning, oxygen bar going, Gucci shoe wearing, US Magazine reading, polymerized plastic generation is way too self absorbed to get enough of us genuinely caring individuals to sway them...no, I think even if Ben Affleck and J-LO were out sorting recyclables these people still could not be brought around.

That said...I'll be right beside you doing my part too, regardless!!

Chris

[ebb]

WOW!!!
Hey lemme catch up!

[epiphany]

Recommended reading: "Ishmael", by Daniel Quinn. (Warning: Mind- and philosophy-altering contents therein.)

Hey Mike - Though this story seems OT, it does have to do with this topic - bear with me - I know you know a lot of this stuff, I'll explain a bit for those who might not -

The surfboard industry just went through a *major* shake-up in the past month. Clark Foam, which supplied about 80% of the *entire worlds* surfboard "blanks" (the foam core of the 'boards), just up and closed their doors one day. Literally. The founder sent out a 7 page fax that said, in essence, "We're Closed. As of Now. For Good.", and had given no prior warning.

The Clark blanks were made of polyurethane (PU) foam, which is compatible with polyester resins, but not epoxies. Epoxy-glassed boards use extruded polystyrene (EPS) foam as their core material, ie; common styrofoam.

So, the epoxy/EPS foam boardmakers are now crowing and gloating. Among the claims I've seen them make is that epoxy resins and EPS foams are a *much* "greener* solution for FRP products like 'boards and boats than are the polyester/PU variants.

Is there any truth in this claim? Seems to me that alla that stuff is pretty much a vile, nasty chemical soup, that if one is actually "greener" it has to only be by a matter of a very few degrees. I'm not knocking the use of either (or I'd have a wood boat), just stating what would seem to be self-evident. I've worked with both types for years, tho' polyester mostly. Is this "greener" bit just a bunch of hype?

I mean - It's not like we can go into the woods and forage up the makings for a gallon of West Systems resin, it's still a lot of highly chemically modified dead dinosaur juice, right?

Or perhaps it is because tho the difference in "nastiness" is slight, enough is used that in the aggregate, that what is a slight difference locally would be a huge differenc globally?

Trying to separate hype from truth, prior to resin investment. Thanks!

[ebb]

Speaking thru my hat.
What I know is this from a safety standpoint:
(probably the single most important thing to know about epoxy)
Use 100% solids epoxy of one to one or two to one A to B parts.
100% solids epoxy is relatively benign.

Simple, do not use any manufacturer's formulation that has solvents in it.
Do not use any manufacturer's product that blushes.
That includes your favorites: East System and System Four, N.A.S.
Blushing is an indication of cheap extenders like nonylphenol (a carcinogen).
Extenders are a way of cheating the consumer.

The only reason not to use epoxy on foamboards is the expense.

One very good reason not to use polyester on boards is the styrene solvent in it. In 1982 A USEPA study found styrene in human fat tissue in 100% of the people tested. Causes liver kidney brain and lung damage. Styrene also rearranges your chromosomes.

(Why won't epoxy stick to urethane foam?
It's not compatible with polyethylene and polypropylene.)