Primary Winch Placement

[ebb]

Winches on the coamings certainly are placed correctly for racing. Or maybe they could be placed a little more forward.

Has anybody not into racing placed the primaries differently? Forward, back? Or changed the mount of the winch in relation to the sheets?

338 had a camcleat astraddle the coaming. I don't have selftailing and wonder if a winch island (an extended winch pad) with a horizontal cam cleat is the way to go? The oarlock thread shows what I'm talking about.

The headsail winches get a lot a activity - I'm asking if there is a great setup for mounting them. While self-tailing winches are very convenient I find them rather uncomfortable to use. I might perfer a jam cleat with some space between it and the winch.

[Tony G]

Ebb,

Timely post. As of lately, when time allows that is, I've been sitting in the cockpit with tiller in hand trying to decide where to mount the winches.

113 came with two sets of Lewmar 7s. One set was mounted about two feet aft of the cabin and the second set was mounted about two feet forward of the aft end of the cockpit. We're planning on mounting only two winches about two feet back from the cabin. Two humongus Lewmar 42 ST's. Yeah, they're way too big for the job but I got a smokin' deal on them a few years back off of...you got it, E-bay. Maybe I should try to horse trade them for some appropriate Andersons.

The four winches looked pretty 'cool' but I honestly don't know what I'd do all of them other than stub my toes. I plan on getting a asymetrical down the road and will probably never fly a typical spinnaker myself (note to self: sell spinnaker too)so I don't think a secondary set would come in handy.

I dunno. What do you think?

[Hull376]

Tony,

I've flown my symetrical chute for years with just one set of winches. Don't really need another set unless you're a racer. So even if you keep your chute and only put a pair of winches on, you'll do fine.

[commanderpete]

I remember now, John on Ariel #1 moved his winches back. Might be easier for singlehanding.

http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/a...achmentid=2320

I think you have to figure out the sheet leads.

Look at the jib track on Pathfinder. Would the jib sheet rub on the coaming if the winch was further back?

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussi...ntid=706&stc=1

Would need a long genoa track too. Have to account for the lifelines also, if you're going to have them.

[ebb]

Gentlemen,
At the helm in the Ariel you probably sit in the middle of the cockpit. That would put the winches right behind and in front. If you are alone and you are coming about, you have to unwinde the sheet and prepare the other side to haul in the jib. Alone, I was never able to this gracefully. Tend to use the winch handle as a last resort only, because it's another damn piece of gear. Two hands on the sheet and you loose control of the tiller. Altho you do have a couple seconds when the tiller is pushed all the way down to quickly gather in and start wrapping the sheet on the winch. With practice it gets smoother - hope so.

Two feet back from the front would put the winches closer to the front than what 338 came with. Being large person I could probably reach any corner of the cockpit but having the winches at an angle to where I would sit with the tiller seems like an advantage. Less contortion. Not having self-tailers, a small distance, 9" to a foot to a jam cleat is what I imagine. Can see that that puts the cleat right across the cockpit.

That is why I was wondering if the winches could be forward of the traditional midpoint - or aft - as Ariel #1 has them. Either location the jam cleat would be in the middle. A forward location would get it out of the way of the 'traffic' of the tiller. A aft location would free up the cockpit around the companionway.

Read a Bob Perry review putting down a small Hunter for having their primaries at a radical angle. It made the side deck they were mounted on I think dangerous. But often you may see a flat winch island with wedge shaped pads under the winch. I know it is a function of the lead from the jib and genaker, but has anybody changed that angle on their Ariel to allow more 'automatic' line wrapping on the drum?

Is it logical to imagine the winches horizontal instead of vertical? Why not have them sideways?

[Bill]

Gentlemen,Is it logical to imagine the winches horizontal instead of vertical? Why not have them sideways?

Um, might be a problem using the winch handle? Works on the mast, but the deck might get in the way with the cockpit winches.

[commanderpete]

The jamcleat could be more horizontal, if you're building a winch island. Still need a backup horn cleat.

I think you'll like the self-tailers. Lets you crank the winch with one hand and steer with the other. Doesn't sound like much, but you might do that 100 times a day.

Don't think I'd like the winches too far back--have to scramble around the tiller every time you tack

[Bill]

Don't think I'd like the winches too far back--have to scramble around the tiller every time you tack

The original primaries on Maika'i were / are set aft. Pearson also put them there on the P-26. The technique when sailing solo is to face aft when you tack . . We placed the new Lewmar 16s forward to move the crew away from the tiller.

[ebb]

bottom rachetting side winders

Don't haf to go stinkin round, just go back and forth like a socket wrench.
Have the handle on the bottom next to the coaming,
stick the handle in the slot and crank away
out of the way of the line.
Can we patent this? (see below)

Hey, you gotta choice in windlasses,
let's have a choice in primaries!
Probably have to wedge them UP a bit to keep the line on the drum.

(don let Scott hear about this....)

[Bronze Murray winches from New Zealand are strong, mechanically simple BOTTOM ACTION winches that have cleats on top to act as a self tailer. You can flip the guts inside to allow the winch to work the other way. Nice pis on
www.classicmarine.co.uk] (damn! google will get you there!)

[commanderpete]

Here's that link to the Murray winch ebb

http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/asp/p...=any&PT_ID=all

Bronze or stainless winches would look more classic than my Harkens

[commanderpete]

They're OK in the right light