Tenders

[Bill]

Another view . . . [yes, UHURU is back in the water. Film at 6:00 . . . when I get through editing.]

[Tony G]

'Stumbled upon this one ealier tonight and thought of this thread immediately. Now let's see if I can make this thing work...

http://www.yachtvalhalla.net/gecko/gecko.html

Belizean One Barrel. It makes somethings so easy and other things so hard

[epiphany]

Here's a great page that fully documents the build and launch of a 6.5' LOA B&B Yacht Designs "Minipaw" dinghy. This one was 3 years in the building, but the result looks great. (3 years is not needed to build one, however... )

The builder (pictured) is Michel Goudeseune.

[ebb]

Looks like Michel is trying out oarlock positions. He'll be putting a second set further forward so he can row with a passenger or an anchor or five jerry cans.
I like the style seat. A boat this size would be hard to sail wouldn't it? Probably have to do away with the seat (make it removable) so that you could sit on the bottom and use a tiller and tend sheets...?

Wonder what she weighs?
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later addition:
www.dinghyco.com
6 1/2' pointy dinghy. Looks like almost 40" wide!
Earl specializes in fiberglass versions of 'FOUND' boats.
There aren't too many configurations one can have in a '6half' dinghy. This little CAMDEN looks like it should be light weight, looks unsinkable, and has an adjustable/removable seat. Looks like the boat could be sailed with additions.
There are thousands of tenders out there - just peeking, what do you think?
Looks like like you could get into the boat FROM THE WATER over the rear and bail it after. Any dinghy for an A/C should have this attribute imco.
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Tony: Who could not like the nesting Danny Greene 'Gecko'? Nested the boat is 5'4" long and who knows how tall, altho they do fit very nicely together. And the craftsmanship looks first class.

There was a hilarious YouTube video once that showed an old guy putting the center thwart into a Portabote - when suddenly the seat slips and the thing closes sucking in the poor guy like a Grouper! This nester I don't think could be assembled on the deck of an Ariel. So in the water both halves would have to float - and assembly would literally have to be a breeze. I don't see this process on the site.
This version of the Chameleon looks pretty heavy!
I think I've run across a shorter version of a pram like this where the center seat is used to make the connection of the two halves. Good idea. Not as pretty as that center sweep of the Gecko's. Where to put the package on the Ariel is a problem: under the boom, on the foredeck, aft deck?
If there was enough width to a dinghy the center seat/thwart could, not only act as bouyancy, but might also serve to lock up the 2.5hp OB, if so designed. imco

[Rico]

For some good picts see the original link:- Posting the pictures did not work for me...

http://www.fattyknees.com/fatty_knees_goodoldboat.html



Four tenders for sail
Searching for the ideal sailing tender, we test four of the best.
by Scott and Barbara Thurston.

[ebb]

Barbara and Scott's presentation of the four dinghys Rico has posted here is an unbelievable relief to me. It is amazing how difficult it is to find credible and useful information on the internet. The writing is superb and informative and thoughtful - and obviously packed with actual experiences - who could not listen to what this cruising couple has to say. I'd like to know how it came about that they had four expensive dinghys to compare so conveniently!

From this article a list could be compiled of just what an ideal tender's attributes should be.

Aside from the sticker price:
One thing important to us is the weight of the tenders, how cumbersome they are to get on deck, and how and WHERE they are stowed to go. Of course that depends on the mother ship.

An 8' dinghy has no place to stow ON an Ariel:
Ariel is a particularly small ship, a real challenge that requires a particularly small and LIGHT WEIGHT package in a dinghy. Coastal cruisers could easily get away with an airboat imho such as the Tinker (or its smaller brother that I haven't seen). For voyaging, yea for dependability, a hard dingy-pram is the only choice. I believe, as the opening parragraph in the test report suggests that the dinghy takes a beating and often won't get the care it deserves - like a little burro or burrito.

Can't see an inflatable taking what a hardass one has to! Hard prams can be dragged on rocks and concrete and shells, don't fry in the sun, can carry sharp objects, chain and anchors, can be neglected and fixed easy, can be towed, rowed, sculled, sailed and use a smaller and cheaper motor, aren't a prime target for stealing, are cheaper than the blimps, are puncture proof, can be customed - AND have a whole lot more PERSONALITY.
Compare that to being a roll-up and going fast.

The Thurston's article might emphasize an important feature every burrito has to have:
It must be able to be bailed out with an adult human aboard. I don't think this can be compromised. It won't matter how cute... or how well a dinghy tracks... if it's full of water up to its sheer. The older you get, or if you have kids, the SELF RESCUE aspect of a yacht's tender is absolutely important.
(Recently noticed 'self rescue' used to describe a dinghy's ability to stay afloat after a knockdown, be righted, and used from the water again. Not necessarily its secondary or possible use as a life rescue device, that a cruiser might hope it to be.)

[ebb]

www.niccollslite.net
This nester reminds me of the Cameleon/Gecko ply dinghy.
[I'm sorry if this is a repeat - I'm on the run.]

It's really (so far as we can tell) a well thought out row-motor-sail boat. I think it is too big, too much of a box when nested for the Ariel. But what's the harm in peeking? Lots of good ideas and imho $4000 sailaway is a very decent price!

Can it be put together in the water? Whats the materials and workmanship like?
This 10 footer is 5'6" X 53" nested - unknown height. 58# aft section, 37# fore section. Not bad at all!

Where would you put the nester on the Ariel? Seriously?

We're waiting for an 8 foot nester. Where would you put those two?
Seriously?

[Bill]

Here is a site with another tender design:

http://www.svensons.com/boat/?p=RowBoats/HandyAndy.

[ebb]

That says it. There are a couple posts by "long term" users of the folding plastic boat.
One from the Cruising Boat Forum by Dan Best 2/09/05. About a 12 page thread.
Another from newsgroups.derkeiler.com Archive. from TriciaJean 192 1/12/06
Re: dingy question - another Porta-Bote fan (in depth review)...
Hope you can access them both.

Here are their pros and cons in summery.

In the Sea of Cortez and beyond for about 3 years.
Pros
The Porta-Bote was rugged on barnacled rocks. Rows easy compared to an airboat, and faster with a same sized motor. More room than an airboat and no worries beaching.
Set up time is faster than putting a woodfloor in the airboat with 2 people. But longer to set up singlehanded.
No leaks like air. Stores easy. Lies flat, you can walk on it, tows well. Stable when stepping down into it, don't have to step over a wide tube.
Cons
Plastic seats and transom not UV resistant. [While there is a 10 yeat limited warranty on the hull, there is only 1 year on the seats and transom.]
Some fastenings are not s.s. (2005)
DIFFICULT TO GET INTO FROM THE WATER.
Airboat very easy. But depending on situation you can just run the Bote on shore and get in there.
[Wonder if a simple rope ladder off the transom would help in getting a leg up?]

There is a weight issue: While the hull alone may weigh in at approx 50#, the seats, transom and dunnage adds weight to the assembled bote
Another complaint is that the Botes are chick magnets and you have to give strangers "5 or 10 minutes answering their questions."
A drier tender than the inflatable and easier to keep growths off.

Dan is pleased with it.
There is no sail rig for the 8'5. The sail rig for the longer botes looks complicated and expensive. There originally was a lateen rig available for the smallest one.

OPENING THE PORTA-BOTE
There is an issue of getting that bote open on an Ariel/Commander. Probably easier in the C.
A cruising Ariel even in the cockpit will have limited space. People have tried assembling it athwart the coamings and launching over the side. [and bringing it back on board using a 3-point bridle with the boom]
The usual approach is to step on a side after opening it, then reach over and pull the other side up.
Then you use the supplied SPREADER BAR to prop the sides wide enough to begin fitting and bolting in the plastic seats There is the business of screwing fasteners and nut thingies. Small stuff that I would lose track of. Visualizes as most possible, assembling over the cockpit. Could open the 8 footer on an Ariel foredeck - wouldn't bet on it!
And while the Porta-Bote will ride along the cabinside or along the stanchion rail, there is all the other stuff you need to make it a tender besides the seats and transom and spreader bar: oars and locks, motor and gascan - plus dunnage. And the bimini of course.

The other poster also has some problems with the Porta-Bote.
The same story with the seats and transom. [But it is now 5 years later in Mountain View CA - one would suppose this important plastic has had some UV protection added. ?]
The KEEL protective liner has pulled away on this guys tender.
The factory supplied oars get UVed in no time.
Also the safety foam along the insides also " REACTS TO UV AND SHEDS." [This is imco a serious problem. The Porta-Bote HAS TO HAVE RESERVE BOUYANCY AND FLOAT WHILE SWAMPED!!!]
"For what it's worth, we've run into several people using Porta-Botes as dinghies and none are contemplating going back to an inflatable. On the other hand, there are few inflatable owners that are considering switching to Portas when they get back to the States."

Some posters can't stand the fact that the Porta-Bote people don't state prices - not even list prices. One guy was so pissed he almost sounded like me!
You have to call the factory in Mountain View, CA (1-800-227-8882) and deal with a salesman.
Ask about the 'show price' and any other deals. ASK ABOUT THE UV ISSUES mentioned here. I haven't called recently, But we can expect to pay about 1/2 of a comparable top-of-the-line inflatable price for it. I'd go for the 8'5.... Guessing: $1500-$2000. The handsome - but unfoldable - Walker Bay dinghy is maybe half that price.

Portas are not going to be stand-ins for an emergency life saving device. Strictly a coastal cruising/exploring tender. But relatively easy to take long distances.
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SOAR INFLATABLE:
As a back-up - an inflatable kayak seems like a good idea. There are hundreds of choices and research is a good idea.
There is an outfit in Healdsburg CA, SOAR Inflatables that makes a 12' tandem, white water Alaska expedition, type yacht tender that I've had my eye on for years. It's a flat bottom kayak with huge load capacity.
Offsite reviews suggest a 12' Soar would be a bit much to control singlehanded in all waters It is heavy, comparable to the assembled PB. Difficult to get back in it's bag (15"X10"X40") $1600, Expensive. Many optional accessories, including an OB rig. I've been waiting for a shortie version - won't happen - but this may be a good place to start search and research!
I have emailed the company suggesting they are missing a good market for a 10' version.*
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If one of the Porta-Bote pro's is that they are impervious to 'barnacled rocks', then the natural process is to find out how fastwater river inflatables deal with sharp projections. Soar has the rep for its canoes/rafts/kayaks as the toughest inflatable. Here is a very favorable review and a good look at the craft:
google> Boat Reviews - SOAR inflatable canoe S14 fishig boat reviews
www.tackletour.com/reviewsoar14.shtm
S14 refers to length. In an email Soar's owner Larry wrote back to me (because I wondered if there was a shorter version of their S12 specifically designed as a yacht tender) saying that their 10' model was not a good tracker for paddling. It is also not offered for sale. He says, "There's a lot of happy S12 yacht tender owners."
Well, I can't tell a successful business owner what to do obviously. But I imagine a 10' (or 11') verision could be easily inflated and set up cross cockpit in an Ariel. (The S12 is too long and cumbersome imco.) It would be white or silver on top and be designed as a yacht tender. All Soars are DARK BLUE. HOT in the tropics. As for tracking, the center one of the inflated tubes along the bottom might be emphasized into a sort of keel. The tender would still have the extra bullet-proof fabric covering the bottom. Could still be capable of hauling 600/700 pounds and weigh in under 50#!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dream on McDuff!
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Way later edit. (8/30/11) Litlgull just got a red 10' Soar Inflatable. They listened! Yet to be tested in water. Did get into it at the shop in Healdsberg. Bloody small amount of space inside.....keep tuned into the ebbgallery for a photo or two.