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Thread: Ariel #414

  1. #331
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Grand Haven / Muskegon, Michigan
    Posts
    580
    Welcome Ben! Keep us posted on the gory details of the work you'll be doing. We eat that stuff up. Congrats on upgrading to such a great yacht!
    Kyle
    C-65 Lucky Dawg

  2. #332
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    New Gloucester, Maine
    Posts
    21

    A 414 Rudder Advice

    Hi Everyone,

    I'm starting to get my head around the list for A 414 - Mike's (MBD) old boat 'Sea Glass'. I've got a bunch of ideas and a a few big items that must be addressed and most of them I have a good idea how I want to tackle them. The rudder though is a different story.

    After reading what I can find here and elsewhere on the rudder I'm thinking this one is not as bad as it looks. There is not really anything that is soft except one spot in the center that I can cut out and fit a new piece of mahogany in with epoxy and some bronze rod. Also the shoe is perfect - no play between the shaft and shoe. The rudder to tiller connection is also good with a just barely noticeable amount of play. And Mike already did the upgrade to the delrin bushing and gave me a new o-ring too (he really is a great guy)!

    SO what would you do if this were your boat? I'm not afraid of pulling it and doing whatever will get me the most years.

    Thanks!

    -Ben Name:  IMG_0941.jpg
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    Last edited by 414; 09-01-2017 at 04:12 PM.

  3. #333
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Scarborough, Maine
    Posts
    1,432
    Quote Originally Posted by 414 View Post
    ...SO what would you do if this were your boat? I'm not afraid of pulling it and doing whatever will get me the most years.
    OH OH! You'll learn not to say something like that around here!

    Seriously though, a PO had previously encapsulated the rudder with expoxy/glass. It had long failed and I would just bottom paint it each year. I had been picking at it over the years to determine if the wood underneath was still solid.

    I'll now return to vicariously spectating. I am really looking forward to watching your progress. She is in good hands!
    Mike
    Totoro (Sea Sprite 23 #626)

  4. #334
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    New Gloucester, Maine
    Posts
    21
    Hi Nathan (in response to post #188 of this thread. Way back in 2007),

    I'm the new owner of 414 "Sea Glass" and I've read through this thread about 5 times now (yes it's a little much but I'm excited damn it!) and I just realized I can actually contribute here.

    The portlight frames still look great 10 years later. No chipping or fading, or at least if they are fading it is very even. For this specific application it looks like the rustoleum is a great choice.

    -Ben
    Last edited by 414; 10-06-2017 at 04:08 PM.

  5. #335
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    New Gloucester, Maine
    Posts
    21

    Yanmar 2gm is out

    Hey Everybody,

    Finally pulled the '83 Yanmar 2GM out of #414 today. Surprisingly quick and straightforward job. Mike (mbd) had done more than half the work for me before I bought it. All I really did today was unhook the wiring, fuel lines, raw water and unbolt (had to cut one) engine mount, and the control linkages and come-along it up through the companionway. It's now sitting on blocks in the shop ready for teardown. I've already taken the exhaust elbow off and it was pretty rough in there, I don't have a picture to post now but I will post it soon. Here are a couple shots of the engine ready to come out and one of it gone. Feels crazy to have it out - and exciting!

    -Ben

    P.S. Sorry for the sideways images. Still learning how to use the forum!
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  6. #336
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    New Gloucester, Maine
    Posts
    21

    Inside exhaust elbow and fuel tank

    Here is a view of the inside of the exhaust elbow and the exhaust port on the head. The port on the head was about 2/3 full but I couldn't help but poke it before getting a picture. Obviously the head is coming off so we'll see how she looks on the inside.

    On another note - I'm pulling the current fuel tank and building a new one. Any input on size that would make sense? From research it looks as though 3 gallons will get about 12 hours of run time so I'm thinking between a 3 and 4 gallon tank but I'd be open to input before I go building one. It will be a custom tank - not interested in a portable or plastic tank - I'll just make it up from either stainless, aluminum or (dare I say it?!) mild steel! or I might cut up the current tank and reuse it's bits and pieces. It's aluminum. The reason to move to a new tank are many including:
    -Tank is under cockpit floor and the filler is in the cockpit floor too.
    -Tank is too big and it will take too long to move 12 gallons of diesel through this little bugger.
    -Tank has no access port for cleaning. New tank will include a port large enough to get a hand inside

    Another question I have on the tank is where is the best place to mount it? I'm thinking about inside the rear lazarette with the fill neck in there too. I'd need to open the hatch to fill it but it would limit the potential for water entry and would be nice and tidy looking. Spills while filling could be an issue with other items in there but I need to be careful either way (don't want diesel going overboard through the cockpit drains either). Breather would be kept in the same location on the transom.

    Thanks for any input!

    -Ben
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  7. #337
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    118

    Tank Placement

    Good luck with the rebuild. Looks like she needs it but I think the 2GM is worth the effort. I have a 2GM and I put my tank on a shelf under the cockpit floor above the stuffing box. The fill is on the cockpit floor but no problems with water or spills so far.

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  8. #338
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    New Gloucester, Maine
    Posts
    21

    injection elbow!

    Hi Bisquit,

    Thanks for the response - I know it's a common place for the tank and would probably be fine but it just gives me the hebejebes! What has your experience been with with fuel consumption? Ever have issues with algae in the tank?

    Pulled the head off late last night and everything looks good. Cylinder liners are in great shape with cross hatch still visible and no scoring or uneven wear apparent. Valves looked good too. A little carbon build up on everything but nothing that would cause the engine to not run or even run rough. I lapped the valves since I had it apart anyway and cleaned all the carbon that was accessible. Going to order the gaskets and get it back together soon.

    The thing I was not expecting was the water injection elbow (it's the u-shaped one in this case). On the outlet side it was very corroded but had a fair amount of area for gasses and water to escape as you can see in the picture. After much heating with the oxy-propane rosebud the inlet side came apart (meaning separated from the exhaust piping that is between the water injection elbow and the cylinder head, what would be called the manifold if it had multiple ports) the interior had closed down to less than a pencil's width for the exhaust to escape! It was impossible to see this until the two had been separated. In the photo you can see a greenish area that is the passage.

    So my thoughts now, after seeing the inside of the engine looking quite normal, is that the exhaust had closed down to the point where back pressure was extremely high and thus the engine could not pull in the fresh air charge. This made the fuel to air ratio very rich for any given engine load and caused incomplete combustion, giving the black smoke that Mike experienced back when she conked out. The only thing this doesn't explain is why the mechanic reported low compression on inspection in the boat. I should have tested it before tearing the engine down but I was just so convinced I'd find a smoking gun in the valve train or scored up cylinder liners I just went for it - lesson learned.
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  9. #339
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Winyah Bay, SC
    Posts
    573
    I had a ~6 gallon tank on my Com-Pac 23D (w/a Universal M2-12, IIRC), stainless and custom-made to fit under what serves as the laz/seat on those boats. It was that capacity because that was the amount of space available there. To run it dry would have taken 24 hours or more of non-stop motoring, as it had a 1/4gal/hour burn at hull speed, so you should be able to get by with a 2-4 gallon tank plenty fine. I'd go with a small tank like that under the cockpit floor like Bisquit has, and design it to be pretty easily removable for cleaning/inspecting. Shouldn't be hard to do, with that small of a volume. You can use an outboard engine bulb/line to transfer from a jerry tank sitting on the cockpit seat into your main tank with little drippage/mess, and keep the inlet inside one of the cockpit lockers for simplicity. Thanks for taking care of the old gal!
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  10. #340
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    New Gloucester, Maine
    Posts
    21
    Hi Kurt,

    That is a good idea, thank you. It is a nice space for the tank since it's hard to use for much else and if the filler neck was under the cockpit seat instead of in the cockpit floor I'd feel a lot better about water entry and such. Also thanks for the fuel usage numbers. That's about what I've been able to dig up on the 2gm but good to hear from someone with experience with a similar engine and similar weight boat.

    The rebuild has been on hold for the last week or so. I stupidly misplaced a part which is not helping. Also, I always think that at the holidays I'll have time to putter but I never seem to find it!

    More photos and details soon.

    -Ben

  11. #341
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    New Gloucester, Maine
    Posts
    21
    Whooo Hooooo!!! Found the misplaced part, bled the fuel system and cranked the engine on the stand. After about 5 seconds of cranking it fired and puffed out some white and black smoke then quit. After another 5 second crank it started and idled along! Black smoke cleared up in a couple seconds of running. After maybe 10 seconds I shut it down because it's currently inside (exhaust build up) and the cooling system is completely removed and I don't want to go backwards on this thing.

    Now on to temporarily getting the cooling system hooked up, testing the transmission and letting it run for a good while to see if my hopes are correct at this point. If that all checks out then it's on to resealing, cleaning, painting and all the work on the boat to get ready to put things back together.

    Excited to have a living engine! Here's hoping it's healthy too.

    Happy New Year to all!

    -Ben

  12. #342
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    New Gloucester, Maine
    Posts
    21

    Hiccup, then onward!

    Had a scary moment in the engine rebuild yesterday when after hooking up the temporary cooling system (a bucket filled with water and some garden hoses) water started spraying from the exhaust! Shut the engine down and when in the house to have dinner. Later that night I realized that the zinc bung just below the exhaust had been leaking and the exhaust manifold wasn't on tight. It was creating a venturi effect and sucking in the water spray from the bung and pulsing it out with the exhaust. Today I tightened the manifold and the problem resolved.

    I then descaled the engine with 7-10% HCL (muriatic acid from the hardware store) circulated through for 5 minutes, followed up with baking soda and water to neutralize the acid then about 5 gallons of clean water that I allowed to circulate through the system for 5-10 minutes. All told the engine was running for about 25-30 minutes. I might catch some flack for using HCL for the descale and I wouldn't recommend it for routine maintenance but I decided to go for it after testing a few bronze (brass perhaps given the anodes?) parts from the engine in undiluted HCL (~30%) for 5 minutes. They did fine but were totally descaled. Also this engine is all cast iron - no aluminum heads or any other part and I removed the two zincs to prevent them from being eaten. Lastly the engine had a bunch of fine sand in the bottom of the water jacket that was sort of encased in scale. The only way I could see to get it out was to bust all that scale first then flush it out. Seems to have worked.

    I then drained the oil from both the engine and transmission. The engine oil was great but after the 30 minutes of running the transmission oil looked like thin mayonnaise . I'm hoping it's from condensation that built up over the years this motor sat and not from something I have yet to discover. We'll see when I give it a flush then refill with new oil and run it again.

    Next is to take care of a few oil leaks, replace all the rubber hoses, new thermostat, raw water impeller, degrease the thing and slap some paint on. Then on to the interior of the boat - new rear engine mounts, paint for the whole engine "room" and a drip pan of some sort for under the motor to keep everything out of the bilge.

    What have others done for a drip pan under the engine? I've got a bunch of 20oz copper left over from a recent job and I'm thinking of making a simple soldered copper pan that laps onto the logs the engine is mounted on then hangs down under the oil sump - with a pretty agressive slope forward so I can mop up the inevitable spills easily. I also have some galvanized sheet from another job that solders nicely and it would take paint better than the copper. Anyway just spitballing now... if anyone has a recommendation let me know.

    -Ben

  13. #343
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    New Gloucester, Maine
    Posts
    21

    Red face Still moving (crawling)

    Still chipping away at the 2gm. New zincs, fuel filter and I replaced the couple of fasteners I chose to cut to remove the engine. I also slapped (and I do mean slapped) some new Yanmar grey paint on it. Time to deal with the engine room if I can get a day that isn't super cold or raining. Plan to cut out the rear engine mounts and replace them then clean, sand and repaint the whole area before re-installing the engine.

    I'm thinking of tearing out most of the existing wiring. It's all pretty old (much original I'd guess) and some of it is confusingly complicated for what it is. I need to dig around more but that's the way it's headed I think.

    Also need to make a hinge for the foot of the mast (is this a tabernacle or is that specifically the type that leaves a couple feet of mast on the step before the hinge?) and a bow roller for the new-to-me Bruce 33 that'll be up front.

    Scored a mooring recently too at Broad Cove in Cumberland, Maine. About 20 minutes from the house in the municipal field. It's an unpopular spot because of the long tender ride out (read row in my case) to the field, the shallow (and this year no) dock and it's a long walk to the water from the car. But It's all mine! I'll be dragging a 10' row boat with a 2 year old and all his stuff over the mud every low tide I get a chance to. Super excited!!
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  14. #344
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Scarborough, Maine
    Posts
    1,432
    That's awesome news - and the engine is looking great Ben!
    Mike
    Totoro (Sea Sprite 23 #626)

  15. #345
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    New Gloucester, Maine
    Posts
    21

    Almost back in

    Took advantage of the very non-typical weather we're having here in Maine to get the "engine room" and deep bilge painted tonight. I'm hoping that with the above freezing temps for the next few days and a small space heater I'll be able to get it cured. I can finish the paint that can be seen at the back end of picture after the engine is in.

    In finishing up the engine I've replaced the couple of coolant hoses that run from the raw water pump to the block and from the block to the thermostat housing and head. I opened the raw water pump and had a good look at it but the impeller was in perfect condition so I let it be. I've got an extra (thanks Mike!) and I'll keep it on board with the tools to change it. From here on I'll make it a yearly maintenance item. I also pulled the oil pan while I had it out of the boat just to get a look at the bottom end and see if there was any metallic chips or shavings in the pan. All was well in there with barely any sludge which surprised me given its age and the amount of non-run time all boat engines experience.

    All that's left to do before dropping the engine back in is to make a catch pan for under the engine that slopes forward to catch drips and make them easy to clean up and perhaps a two new rear engine mounts (I had cut about .5" off the top of one to get the nut to unthread but they are actually still stiff and in goodish shape). They may wait though as boat funds are running particularly low.
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