Bilge Pump Discussions

[Scott Galloway]

I have read the posts on bilge pumps on this site and the Ariel Manual on the subject of cockpit-mounted manual bilge pumps.

I have decided to add a second manual bilge pump to my Ariel. I want to add that pump in the cockpit, and I suppose the best place for me will be on one of the sidewalls of the cockpit. It probably makes the most sense to do that reasonably close to the forward part of the cockpit. I have read the Ariel manual, which recommends the bridge deck or bridge deck wall, but that forces me to place the body of the flush-mounted bilge pump and one to one and a half inch tubing in the cabin where it would be in the way and would be unsightly in my opinion. If I understand my boat, there is a double wall there, so the installation would be more complicated than placing a flush mounted pump in a sidewall of the cockpit, which places the body of the pump in the cockpit locker.

I don't relish the idea of chopping a 3.5 inch hole in my boat to accommodate the flush mounted bilge pump.

Now for the questions:

1. Does anyone out there have what you consider to be the ideal, or at least the most pragmatic solution to adding a manual cockpit bilge pump?

2. How have you sealed a flush mounted manual pump to prevent leaks?

3. Does your method actually prevent leaks?

4. If you have a higher volume pump, how many strokes per minute can you handle without fatiguing quickly at that volume?

The choice sees to be the higher volume ~ 20 gallons per minute with a 1.5 inch line, or lower volume ~10 gallons per minute with 1.0 inch line, or forgetting the whole thing and buying the sublimely expensive 30 gallons per minute Edson versatile and portable pump suitable for pumping your bilge, holding tank or washing your anchor or boat down. In the latter case, you would not have to worry about mounting the pump, since it is mounted to a board and is designed to move around the boat.

5. Here is an idea: is it worthy?

The very expensive Edson portable pump model 290017 (see West Marine ecatalog) gave me the idea of buying a much less expensive standard surface mounted 20 GPM bilge pump and mounting it to a board that would slip and clamp into the opening between the cockpit and the lazarette hatch to be used as an emergency bilge pump or wash-down pump, and could also be carried around the boat to be used at other locations. By hooking the pump up with a quick connect/ disconnect fitting to a bilge hose in the lazarette locker, one could have a readily available bilge pump to use in the cockpit when needed without having to chop more holes in the boat, and at the same time one would have a handy pump to use as an anchor wash-down pump on the foredeck. In the bilge pump mode, the outflow pipe could used the OB well as some writers have suggested they are now doing with their fixed mounted bilge pumps, or could have a transom-mounted through hull with a second quick disconnect. I have a one-inch plastic "cistern fitting" designed for a bait tank that has an adapter that reduces to a standard garden hose fitting. This unit is suitable for mounting through the lazarette cockpit bulkhead and connects on the bilge side to one inch bilge tubing. I am already using one of these units on my bilge pump line. That pump is mounted on the aft wall of the cabin above the galley shelf.

6. Also, has anyone installed and used the Plastmo Cockpit Bilge pump? I am not so sure about the strength of the handle. It looks like a good concept otherwise.

[Scott Galloway]

Here is what West Marine has to say about the Edson portable pump.

[Scott Galloway]

Here is what West Marine has to say about the Plastmo cockpit bilge pump:

[Theis]

What about installing an electric bilge pump in the bilge, and getting some real pumping capacity? That is what I have, and it is great. That way, when the going get tough, you can be working the radio, or the sails, or whatever rather than being thrown around while pumping (Of course a manual pump is also good, but it may not need to be in the cabin)

[Scott Galloway]

Theis,

The electric bildge pump makes me think that perhaps you have an inboard engine in your Ariel I have a single battery that gets charged at the dock. My Nissan 6 hp motor lacks an alternator/reciifier, or whatever.I will probably add an electric bilge pump in time also, but that would be for use in a very short-term emergency in the event of a sizeable leak. It would not take long for a Rule 2000 or 3700 to drain my battery. I have a manual bilge pump in the cabin already. I want to install an additional manual pump in the cockpit.

Although it is sobering to learn that a one inch hole in the hull two feet beneath the waterline will put more water into the boat than any manual pump made can remove, I can pump a half filled bilge in an Ariel completely dry in two minutes. I had to do that recently, so I decided to time myself. It took two minutes. That is using a Guzzler pump with about a 10-gallon per minute advertised capacity and a one-inch line.

I have also been considering a gas powered pump, or perhaps a small gasoline powered generator that can power an electric pump. Honda makes both. The generator is a bit pricey, but small enough to be suitable for an Ariel. The pump that I like unfortunately cannot be used with saltwater. So I am still looking.

I am also considering solar panels, but solar panels are not going to supply enough juice for a mega leak emergency.

Anyway, the presenting problem in this thread is: Where did you install a flush mounted manual bilge pump in your cockpit if not on the bridge deck, and would you do it again. Does the thing leak?

[Theis]

I have an outboard, but it does have a generator - max six amps.

The Rule pump is rated 20 amps ( I don't think it draws that much). With an 80 ampere hour battery, that means the pump could run for four hours, or long enough to drain Lake Mead, if my calculations and understanding of ampere hours is correct. Each spring I fill up the bilge above the floor to clean out the beer from broken cans the previous summer. The pump (with automatic shut off) takes perhaps a minute - at the outside - although I have never timed it (1 1/2" hosing leading ouside through the bottom in the motor well/lazarette.)

My exterior Whale Gusher is flush mounted on the port side of the cockpit bench, aft of the bench cover, on the vertical face, just in front of the back end of the cockpit (about where the tiller post is). It is mounted high on the vertical lazarette wall. I keep the handle just inside the motor lazarette opening panel. The retainer string for the handle is long enough so I can take it out of the brackets in the motor well and insert it into the pump. Hope this all makes sense.

[Scott Galloway]

Theis,

Thanks, that was very helpful. The whale pump that I am planning to install will take either a one-inch or one and a half inch line. It mounts to a bulkhead by four bolts provided by Whale. It appears that an installer has two options in that there are two sets of our boltholes in the body of the pump.

I am going to assume that you mounted yours on the inside of your cockpit locker so that the bolts for the flush mounting pump go through a backing plate and then through the fiberglass cockpit wall. Did you feel that was sufficient, or did you build a little shelf in the cockpit locker for the pump to sit upon and utilize the other four holes to secure the pump to that shelf?

Secondly, how did you seal the 3.5-inch hole in the cockpit wall? I have now purchased a Whale urchin manual pump, and it comes with a formal looking flip up cover that hides the external mounting ring. I suppose that since the diaphragm is rubber, the best thing would be to bed the ring with silicon. Any thoughts? And does yours leak?

Finally, I selected the Whale Urchin rather than the Whale Titan because the Titan takes a one and a half inch line, and I have not found a secure one and a half inch fitting to go through the watertight bulkhead between the cockpit locker and the lazarette locker. I have a one-inch fitting, and so I selected the lower capacity urchin. By the way with a similar capacity Guzzler manual pump I can pump half a bilge full of water completely dry in two minutes. I am interested in what sort of leak-proof fitting you used to get a one and a half inch line through the bulkhead between the cockpit and lazarette lockers.

There is no question that a Rule 2000 pump would be a great asset. I would still want a manual pump in the cockpit, however.

[Scott Galloway]

Theis,

Thanks, that was very helpful. The whale pump that I am planning to install will take either a one-inch or one and a half inch line. It mounts to a bulkhead by four bolts provided by Whale. It appears that an installer has two options in that there are two sets of our boltholes in the body of the pump.

I am going to assume that you mounted yours on the inside of your cockpit locker so that the bolts for the flush mounting pump go through a backing plate and then through the fiberglass cockpit wall. Did you feel that was sufficient, or did you build a little shelf in the cockpit locker for the pump to sit upon and utilize the other four holes to secure the pump to that shelf?

Secondly, how did you seal the 3.5-inch hole in the cockpit wall? I have now purchased a Whale urchin manual pump, and it comes with a formal looking flip up cover that hides the external mounting ring. I suppose that since the diaphragm is rubber, the best thing would be to bed the ring with silicon. Any thoughts? And does yours leak?

Finally, I selected the Whale Urchin rather than the Whale Titan because the Titan takes a one and a half inch line, and I have not found a secure one and a half inch fitting to go through the watertight bulkhead between the cockpit locker and the lazarette locker. I have a one-inch fitting, and so I selected the lower capacity urchin. By the way with a similar capacity Guzzler manual pump I can pump half a bilge full of water completely dry in two minutes. I am interested in what sort of leak-proof fitting you used to get a one and a half inch line through the bulkhead between the cockpit and lazarette lockers.

There is no question that a Rule 2000 pump would be a great asset. I would still want a manual pump in the cockpit, however.

[Scott Galloway]

Theis,

Thanks, that was very helpful. The whale pump that I am planning to install will take either a one-inch or one and a half inch line. It mounts to a bulkhead by four bolts provided by Whale. It appears that an installer has two options in that there are two sets of our boltholes in the body of the pump.

I am going to assume that you mounted yours on the inside of your cockpit locker so that the bolts for the flush mounting pump go through a backing plate and then through the fiberglass cockpit wall. Did you feel that was sufficient, or did you build a little shelf in the cockpit locker for the pump to sit upon and utilize the other four holes to secure the pump to that shelf?

Secondly, how did you seal the 3.5-inch hole in the cockpit wall? I have now purchased a Whale urchin manual pump, and it comes with a formal looking flip up cover that hides the external mounting ring. I suppose that since the diaphragm is rubber, the best thing would be to bed the ring with silicon. Any thoughts? And does yours leak?

Finally, I selected the Whale Urchin rather than the Whale Titan because the Titan takes a one and a half inch line, and I have not found a secure one and a half inch fitting to go through the watertight bulkhead between the cockpit locker and the lazarette locker. I have a one-inch fitting, and so I selected the lower capacity urchin. By the way with a similar capacity Guzzler manual pump I can pump half a bilge full of water completely dry in two minutes. I am interested in what sort of leak-proof fitting you used to get a one and a half inch line through the bulkhead between the cockpit and lazarette lockers.

There is no question that a Rule 2000 pump would be a great asset. However, I would still want a manual pump in the cockpit.

[Scott Galloway]

Theis,

Thanks, that was very helpful. The whale pump that I am planning to install will take either a one-inch or one and a half inch line. It mounts to a bulkhead by four bolts provided by Whale. It appears that an installer has two options in that there are two sets of our boltholes in the body of the pump.

I am going to assume that you mounted yours on the inside of your cockpit locker so that the bolts for the flush mounting pump go through a backing plate and then through the fiberglass cockpit wall. Did you feel that was sufficient, or did you build a little shelf in the cockpit locker for the pump to sit upon and utilize the other four holes to secure the pump to that shelf?

Secondly, how did you seal the 3.5-inch hole in the cockpit wall? I have now purchased a Whale urchin manual pump, and it comes with a formal looking flip up cover that hides the external mounting ring. I suppose that since the diaphragm is rubber, the best thing would be to bed the ring with silicon. Any thoughts? And does yours leak?

Finally, I selected the Whale Urchin rather than the Whale Titan because the Titan takes a one and a half inch line, and I have not found a secure one and a half inch fitting to go through the watertight bulkhead between the cockpit locker and the lazarette locker. I have a one-inch fitting, and so I selected the lower capacity urchin. By the way with a similar capacity Guzzler manual pump I can pump half a bilge full of water completely dry in two minutes. I am interested in what sort of leak-proof fitting you used to get a one and a half inch line through the bulkhead between the cockpit and lazarette lockers.

There is no question that a Rule 2000 pump would be a great asset. However, I would still want a manual pump in the cockpit.

[Scott Galloway]

Theis,

Thanks, that was very helpful. The whale pump that I am planning to install will take either a one-inch or one and a half inch line. It mounts to a bulkhead by four bolts provided by Whale. It appears that an installer has two options in that there are two sets of our boltholes in the body of the pump.

I am going to assume that you mounted yours on the inside of your cockpit locker so that the bolts for the flush mounting pump go through a backing plate and then through the fiberglass cockpit wall. Did you feel that was sufficient, or did you build a little shelf in the cockpit locker for the pump to sit upon and utilize the other four holes to secure the pump to that shelf?

Secondly, how did you seal the 3.5-inch hole in the cockpit wall? I have now purchased a Whale urchin manual pump, and it comes with a formal looking flip up cover that hides the external mounting ring. I suppose that since the diaphragm is rubber, the best thing would be to bed the ring with silicon. Any thoughts? And does yours leak?

Finally, I selected the Whale Urchin rather than the Whale Titan because the Titan takes a one and a half inch line, and I have not found a secure one and a half inch fitting to go through the watertight bulkhead between the cockpit locker and the lazarette locker. I have a one-inch fitting, and so I selected the lower capacity urchin. By the way with a similar capacity Guzzler manual pump I can pump half a bilge full of water completely dry in two minutes. I am interested in what sort of leak-proof fitting you used to get a one and a half inch line through the bulkhead between the cockpit and lazarette lockers.

There is no question that a Rule 2000 pump would be a great asset. However, I would still want a manual pump in the cockpit.

[Scott Galloway]

Theis,

Thanks, that was very helpful. The whale pump that I am planning to install will take either a one-inch or one and a half inch line. It mounts to a bulkhead by four bolts provided by Whale. It appears that an installer has two options in that there are two sets of our boltholes in the body of the pump.

I am going to assume that you mounted yours on the inside of your cockpit locker so that the bolts for the flush mounting pump go through a backing plate and then through the fiberglass cockpit wall. Did you feel that was sufficient, or did you build a little shelf in the cockpit locker for the pump to sit upon and utilize the other four holes to secure the pump to that shelf?

Secondly, how did you seal the 3.5-inch hole in the cockpit wall? I have now purchased a Whale urchin manual pump, and it comes with a formal looking flip up cover that hides the external mounting ring. I suppose that since the diaphragm is rubber, the best thing would be to bed the ring with silicon. Any thoughts? And does yours leak?

Finally, I selected the Whale Urchin rather than the Whale Titan because the Titan takes a one and a half inch line, and I have not found a secure one and a half inch fitting to go through the watertight bulkhead between the cockpit locker and the lazarette locker. I have a one-inch fitting, and so I selected the lower capacity urchin. By the way with a similar capacity Guzzler manual pump I can pump half a bilge full of water completely dry in two minutes. I am interested in what sort of leak-proof fitting you used to get a one and a half inch line through the bulkhead between the cockpit and lazarette lockers.

There is no question that a Rule 2000 pump would be a great asset. However, I would still want a manual pump in the cockpit.

[Scott Galloway]

Theis,

Thanks, that was very helpful. The whale pump that I am planning to install will take either a one-inch or one and a half inch line. It mounts to a bulkhead by four bolts provided by Whale. It appears that an installer has two options in that there are two sets of our boltholes in the body of the pump.

I am going to assume that you mounted yours on the inside of your cockpit locker so that the bolts for the flush mounting pump go through a backing plate and then through the fiberglass cockpit wall. Did you feel that was sufficient, or did you build a little shelf in the cockpit locker for the pump to sit upon and utilize the other four holes to secure the pump to that shelf?

Secondly, how did you seal the 3.5-inch hole in the cockpit wall? I have now purchased a Whale urchin manual pump, and it comes with a formal looking flip up cover that hides the external mounting ring. I suppose that since the diaphragm is rubber, the best thing would be to bed the ring with silicon. Any thoughts? And does yours leak?

Finally, I selected the Whale Urchin rather than the Whale Titan because the Titan takes a one and a half inch line, and I have not found a secure one and a half inch fitting to go through the watertight bulkhead between the cockpit locker and the lazarette locker. I have a one-inch fitting, and so I selected the lower capacity urchin. By the way with a similar capacity Guzzler manual pump I can pump half a bilge full of water completely dry in two minutes. I am interested in what sort of leak-proof fitting you used to get a one and a half inch line through the bulkhead between the cockpit and lazarette lockers.

There is no question that a Rule 2000 pump would be a great asset. However, I would still want a manual pump in the cockpit.

[Scott Galloway]

Theis,

Thanks, that was very helpful. The whale pump that I am planning to install will take either a one-inch or one and a half inch line. It mounts to a bulkhead by four bolts provided by Whale. It appears that an installer has two options in that there are two sets of our boltholes in the body of the pump.

I am going to assume that you mounted yours on the inside of your cockpit locker so that the bolts for the flush mounting pump go through a backing plate and then through the fiberglass cockpit wall. Did you feel that was sufficient, or did you build a little shelf in the cockpit locker for the pump to sit upon and utilize the other four holes to secure the pump to that shelf?

Secondly, how did you seal the 3.5-inch hole in the cockpit wall? I have now purchased a Whale urchin manual pump, and it comes with a formal looking flip up cover that hides the external mounting ring. I suppose that since the diaphragm is rubber, the best thing would be to bed the ring with silicon. Any thoughts? And does yours leak?

Finally, I selected the Whale Urchin rather than the Whale Titan because the Titan takes a one and a half inch line, and I have not found a secure one and a half inch fitting to go through the watertight bulkhead between the cockpit locker and the lazarette locker. I have a one-inch fitting, and so I selected the lower capacity urchin. By the way with a similar capacity Guzzler manual pump I can pump half a bilge full of water completely dry in two minutes. I am interested in what sort of leak-proof fitting you used to get a one and a half inch line through the bulkhead between the cockpit and lazarette lockers.

There is no question that a Rule 2000 pump would be a great asset. However, I would still want a manual pump in the cockpit.

[c_amos]

I have purchased the Plastimo 925 as a back up for the electric pump in my bilge. I intend to mount it in the cockpit, probably in the starboard side up forward. As to the concerns about the handle on this pump, the blue plastic tip in the picture is just a cover for the stainless handle that extends through the body. The unit is pretty stout.

I know the bridge deck is the recommended location, but my compass is there, and I prefer it on centerline for visibility (and because that is where a compass belongs).



Do any that have experience with cockpit mounted pumps have thoughts on the merits of placement forward or aft? I am thinking forward would be easier to use, but more likely to hit the back of the legs where as aft might be handily out of the way.....


..... ....both in daily use, and when needed.