set me straight....

hello all,

I'm new here and just posted a few exterior pics of my "new" Ariel. (#242 1964). I'm hoping to find a little info and history on the boat. I'm also hoping for you all to set me straight......
I am restoring a bristol 27. I've been on the quest for a suitable smaller alberg design for quite a few years, and this year I almost had my hands on a beautiful alberg30. I waited just days too long and lost it. I immediately found the bristol, and though I never really considered the 27 (for stupid reasons really, I just hate the deck layout and appearance) before, I purchased it. Is a terrific boat, just ugly, and fits my needs perfectly. So, as I'm upgrading/restoring I find this Ariel and jumped on it as a parts boat, as the price was insane. Turns out the Ariel is just in too good condition, and I'm really having a slight affair with it. While the bristol definitely gets my vote for interior layout and comfort, there is simply something about the ariel that I prefer.....basically, decks down they are the same boat. performance is the same, and the ariel takes it for roomy cockpit. Anyway, I only need one boat so one of them has to go. I am currently waiting for spring to haul the bristol and paint/bottom job. I've been working on the ariel and before I go too far on both/either I wanted to find some info and hear from some owners. Any insight? What would you do?

BTW....the ariel is an inboard model, but also has the outboard well structure in the lazerette, just not cut out. It has a westerbeke diesel that I wanted, as I have the exact engine in the bristol. the sails are in great condition, it has all brand new interior cushions, working head, interior complete and in good original condition.Someone took care of this boat.

I guess I should mention that I'm not looking for a full time liveaboard, but sail/cruise alot and eventually will be heading down island. So I need a safe, fun performer for extended short trips and the occasional short bluewater crossing. Hence the affinity for alberg designs. Besides, I just like them!

animaljosh sir,
being an alberg fan probably puts you in a situation where
you are not willing to part out a perfectly good Ariel.

You can see by checking out the discussion and gallery pages
we have here a very active and popular site.
If you have to pass the boat on you can direct a newbie here
where he can find help on just about anything.

You have to believe you are called upon, by A242, to save her.
I don't know that craigs list is the way to go to find a new owner.
Like you, somebody has to see her to want her.

Giving a ride to a prospective owner on a sailing Ariel
will get you a convert on the spot!

yes, this is definitely the place with the most info. There are a few other boats around here (newbern, oriental, beaufort) but no active fleet per say. Passing the boat on was the original plan, and shouldn't be hard as its not a basket case, but I'm seriously entertaining keeping it. Has more options to make it "MY" boat, but is (mostly) all original, complete, and in good shape. Sure, its not factory new, but it has aged gracefully, and what repairs are needed are common and easy. The bridgedeck and cockpit are amazing, much more user friendly than the bristol... I haven't advertised anywhere, as I'm still making up my mind. I was so pissed at myself losing out on the alberg, and also had a bit of buyers remorse with the bristol. But, I have to make a decision. Hoping someone has experience with both boats, and can highlight some pros/cons/characteristics that I may not have considered. If anybody might be interested in either boat or might know someone that may be let them know. Could help with my dilemma.....

There is a Bristol 27 Restoration site.
Don't know if it's the early Alberg as there were other 27s.
Can't imagine the cockpit being badly designed.
Maybe there were alteratiobns by a DFO.
(dreaded former owner:D)

thankfully lots of info on the bristols. It's 100% factory cockpit, but no bridgedeck (mines a '75, not sure when they changed cockpit design. allowed for more interior and the companionway is nice, but takes the seaworthiness away. leaving a board in helps that, but isn't a terrific fix... I've checked out the bristol community for some time. Figured I'd check this side out. I know some ariels have made similar voyages I intend with happy success, but I've yet to find a person in the know who doesn't support the bristol. Lots of people speak highly.

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/14345
1971 Bristol Yacht Co Bristol 27 sailboat for sale in Massachusetts

Don't know what'll come up. Looks just like an Ariel, has to be Alberg.
Seems like bridge deck version was also factory.
And given where the c'pit locker lids are, it'd be no problem to put one in.

No interior carpentry. Just box the end of the cockpit. I would move the
drains aft to the new corners - and upgrade to seacocks if that hasn't been done.
Put a lid on the box and use it for line.

yah, early ones had one, but later models extended the cabin roof and aft bulkhead to the aft edge of bridge-deck. Mine also has the factory dinette layout. one could add a bridge-deck simply, but the cockpit would be so tiny at that point three people would be a stretch. the Ariel cockpit is so much nicer.

Well, it's obvious you can't move the Pearson bulkhead back. to reclaim
your bridge-deck. And I would think the dinette is a great thing to have.
And you may even have what every woman wants: an enclosed head,
which is way more than what a stock or remodeled Ariel has to offer.
You probably also have in the 27 more headroom. A lot of plusses!

SUPPOSE you remove the rear deck hatch and push the cockpit aft maybe 16-18"?

In other words put a bench across the back of cockpit.....in back of the tiller!
You'd still have the tiller coming up at the base of the seat front.
Seat lid would still give you storage, and you'd have a small aft deck for
chocks and cleats and pushpit. Probably don't want that big ole hatch anyway.

A little complicated, but someone handy could make a short job of it.
Only problem is how you rig the mainsheet.
My A338 is highly modified so that I have no place for a traveler at boom/cockpit end.
Original rig was an "A" sheet with a single double block on the boom and singles
on the quarters. Imco you only want a traveler if you're racing on the weekends.
You can go with separate p&s purchases to separate blocks on the boom-bail.
People who have done this say the set up is equal to a traveler.
Of course there are many ways to rig the sheet. Maybe not a problem for you.

If the dinette option pushed the cabin aftwards, you may be able to place a traveler
over the companionway (on top of a dodger?) to a midboom or 3/4 boom/block position?

There you go. Don't even have to mess much with the aft cockpit bulkhead. You
are merely (I say that advisedly) lowering half of the rear deck to seat height.
And getting rid of the cumbersome hatch. No problem!:eek:
But remodel should produce what you want: at least 6.5 feet in the cockpit.:cool:
Most sailors want an outdoor place to lay down, nothing better than the cockpit.

Your Bristol has 8' beam which makes the volume very much like the Ariel.
Maybe the 27 is actually a stretch Ariel - with a very Bristol cabin top.
Haven't found the weights to compare. Some mention the boat is a little tender.
But maybe that wasn't experience talking, Albergs like to sail in the groove.

With extended seat space , you maybe can have one passenger behind the tiller,
so swinging the tiller better won't bang into too many knees.
Also, might change the tiller to an 'S' pattern that swings naturally over the seats
and without having to lift it over most knees sitting on the seats. Safer,
Had a nice one made for A338. Opens the cockpit up. More friendly.
And the better shaped tiller is not as radical as it sounds.

I could do a few things, but in the end there is always a compromise....I've already cut a new "S" tiller handle to help clear knees in comfort. Haven;t tried it yet, but will this spring. Most of my sailing is solo or with just one other passenger the smaller cockpit of the bristol is still workable, but the ariel really feels so much more comfortable with the bridgedeck and added length, plus has plenty of room for sharing the fun. Its a 64, and there is that artistic aspect of the design and build too. Really, though, while I could do some modifications I try to stick with the fact that the guy that designed the boats usually builds in the best compromises. Certainly there's an exception, but I've got 2 boats to choose from (poor me) that are amazing, each with its highlights and I'm just trying to finally make the dreaded decision.
The ariel is in fact almost the exact hull as the b27. In the same manner that the ariel is a "baby triton", the bristol is a baby Alberg30. the craftsmanship and finishing is almost exactly the same too, being built in the same area by the same guys and designer. I'm not sure about factory options, but the ariel has a much simpler, more traditional interior design and layout. The head in the vberth seems to me to be the biggest downside, but the enclosed head of the bristol isn't all that great. While built well, it is tiny. Not the most comfortable place to "read the paper"! the vberth has plenty of room, and with the door closed it is certainly private. With others aboard its less so.....the cabin is roughly the same size with the lack of enclosed head as the bristols, but the bristol has a dinette layout, with the starboard having sink, huge icebox, nice stove and plenty of storage, as well as a full size quarter berth which is a huge asset in my opinion. Makes the boat less crowd worthy but more "livable". anyway, I'm all ears to hear about how you all feel about your boats, and if you have insight in my dilemma let me know.

just in case anybody know the boat: Bristol 27 sailboat specs

Blueline shows the 'wrong' side view for your problematic cockpit.
Plan views are correct.

Think about extending the cockpit aft.
Could have a lift up seat across the companionway, to add temporary 'bridge-deck' feel.
and more versatile comfort under the dodger.

The Ariel, in my opinion, is Alberg's most perfectly proportioned design of all his small vessels.
Length to width to depth. Never ceases to amaze me. Not a scholar, just a feel.
I'm almost next to a Triton on the hard....
The Ariel is really sexy compared with the more slender Triton - which I suppose shows its narrow folkboat
heritage. Ariel & Commanders look right, look less like compromise, and may even sail better because they look so good..
And have to say that Alberg genius never compromised sea-keeping quality in any of his designs - he is the best.
Living arrangement in the Bristol has more going for it imco,
but I'd bet the Ariel is more fun to sail. I'm prejudiced!

Not knowing, or researching better, the changes I made to A338 are essentially identical (but reversed partially)
to the Bristol. I tried mightyly to put the head over to the side. Conclusion: can't be done in the Ariel.
Have to lengthen the cabin and shorten the c'pit!
CD25D made the whole V-berth into head and storage. But the Ariel arrangement to make
privacy for the head is a pretty good one. Frank Durant added a shower! to his uograde.
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Looking down into your B27 plan, it looks like you could extend the top part of your head into the V'berth.
Of course I don't know. But providing elbow room for turning pages of yer newspaper might be done
by popping out the top 1/3rd or so of the head compartment over the V-berth. Opening ports?

Also think that the galley in these small boats are better arranged around the c'way....for ventilation
and headroom. Managed in A338 to tuck the galley mostly into the corner on the port side and put a
Q-berth in on the starboard side of the cockpit. Space, even to squeeze in is too limited for me,
but it'll make great storage and access for bulky items like sail bags and inflatable.
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Depending on number of people aboard, one seat or the other could be taken from the dinette
for another purpose. One seat only could be used for navigation - and the table double for dining
by arranging a temporary seat in the aisle or from a seat conveniently across the aisle from the table.
Table having a lift up extension for eating.
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Plan view of your dinette layout doesn't show access to your A4???