A few questions regarding Ariels -- what's level -- depth sounders.

Spent some time tearing out the old Icebox, and being winter with a nice heater in the Ariel, I started to think of a few things I'd like to change around, but have a few questions....
Did search, but all the terms I used came up with so many results I was just as lost.

1
With the Ariel, can any interior part can be regarded as being 'level' when floating? side berths, counter, v-berth, sole? Asking because she has two inclinometers installed, and while both agree to a reasonable extent (both on same side of zero, and neither over 1) they don't agree with anything I can check, and nothing else agrees with each other.

2
any chance of finding a depth meter that works with the original transducer?

3
I really hate through hulls, I've found one post on installing cockpit drains that are routed to the transom or counter, but all I could see is some tubes heading aft.
Never had the Ariel in the water so I have no idea how the cockpit sole sits when floating, is it sloped towards the bow, or can I just plug the original drains and drain through the aft bulkhead into the outboard well?

I figure most of these questions would be obvious to anyone who's owned or sailed an ariel or commander, but, mine was purchased shortly before fall.

Thanks
Ken.

Hey Ken,
You have to make some assumptions, but unless someone sez I'm wrong here are a few of the things I discovered.

The cabin sole is level in 338.
The settees in 338 were level foreandaft and as well side to side. They are perhaps the best datum and easiest to work with.
A designer will have many waterline level planes in his accommodation drawing. In manufacturing things change. In reality you have to get lucky. Hopefully your boat was put together on a sober day.

Vberths in 338 are not level but they may relate across the aisle. In 338 they slope aft toward the main bulkhead. I also noticed that the setees and the Vberths tilt downward slightly toward the aisle. Nice. When the boat is sitting quiet liquid should drain off flat surfaces into the bilge rather than stay at the hull.

Bulkheads should be square across and be at right angles to a center line. Setting up an actual centerline, if you are major remodeling, gives you a line to measure from. EG a string from the center of the bow (easy) to the center of the companionway should be pretty good.


The bridge deck is level across. Or across the the seats.
When you are setting up the boat on jacks,
being in the cockpit with a carpenter's level is the way to go.

I have used the foreandaft of the cockpit seats as waterline level. Use a long level and open the seat lids which are sometimes misaligned.

The cockpit sole is NOT level. It slopes forward to the corner drains.
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If your cockpit drains are original they go to straight-thru glassed in fiberglass pipe without the benefit of seacocks. I'm on record as being OK with this but there has to be modifications.
I think it is asking for trouble to connect the open pipes and the cockpit drains with any kind of normal hose.
The open pipe drains should be erased and seacocks installed - if you stay with the original drains. The problem with this is that you end up with short hose and the seacocks at crazy angles.

I'm the guy that erased the factory drains and went with glass epoxy gas pipe to exit just above the waterline under the counter. That means there is pipe running the length of the cockpit just under the cockpit deck at a slight downward angle. A fairly long run. I put in two more straight down in the aft corners of the cockpit.
The four pipes are heavily glassed to the hull without thru-hulls and seacocks. I won't recommend this method. Main reason is that if they leak or get broke they are just about not accessible. BUT 338 now has NO cockpit drains that are always under water!

I have not had the boat in the water yet. Ariels are known to squat, I believe especially if you run an OB. Also on certain points of sailing, particularly when heeling. It is possible that sea water could find its way up the tubes and into the cockpit.

I will wait and see on this. The idea was to radically increase the drain capacity (now at a decent 13 square inches), as the cockpit could hold 100s of pounds of water if boarded by a wave. There are a few oneway stoppers in the market that could be used but they would decrease the diameter of the drains.
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I have the same problem finding stuff with the search mode. It needs to be more intuitive. I think we're spoiled by google. But even google can be a royal PITA.

depth sounder: quote - "any chance of finding a depth meter that works with the original transducer?"

there isn't much of a chance, you will need to find an antique. i wired my original transducer to a period electromechanical depth sounder display i picked up for $1 at the consignment shop. the flasher display was ok, the 'ducer wasn't. Even if you get it to work, the unit will be power hungry and noisy.

a better choice is to spend $100 and get a new thru hull depth sounder (or mount your transducer in an oil filled tube 'glassed to the hull). I went with the thru hull for a better signal, but i've seen some installs with the transducer transmitting thru the hull that seem to work ok in shallow water.


cheers,
bill@ariel231

In my Commander, I had a mechanical speedlog, and it used a speedometer cable to drive the indicator head. When the bearing in the skeg died, I removed the skeg and glassed over the hole, after grinding it a bit to give me a reasonable bonding surface. I drilled a hole forward in the bilge section just ahead of the mast. It works but I do have to pull it every so often to clean off the stuff. I thought if I needed a depthfinder, I could mount a combo unit there and be reasonably accurate.

Glassing up the hole in the cockpit wall was a bigger job and I have not been able to match the color of the wall.

If you want to go through a flat area, you are looking for something under the berths probably, The issue is that even when motoring, you are not going to be level. In either case you want an area that is accessable and not one that is going to be hit by things being stuffed in a storage area.

Thanks guys,

Ebb, your thread is the one I'd seen the cockpit drains on, spent some more time looking through it, and like the way the whole boat looks.
Think I'll stick with the original set up for the drains, maybe install a seacock on the sink side.

I'm planning to tear into her to make a few changes, counters etc., just wasn't sure what I could reference off of to keep everything level with the boat.

She's sitting on a cradle, on a trailer, I leveled her up pretty well with a laser on the water line when I pulled her in, but ended up lifting the bow to make sure she drained faster when it rained, everything was trying to go through the holes to the locker gutters.

Bill and John, That's what I have for speed, was wondering if it was something I should worry about. I tested it with a cordless drill and everything works between impeller and dial.
Was hoping I could use the original transducer because it's routed neatly, and pretty much where I wanted everything set up, was hoping to sidestep a little climbing around.
Think I'll go with a combination set up, and use a transducer that'll shoot through the hull.

Can't sail for a few months yet, so I've been spending time in her and seeing what I like and don't like. A few things I liked when I picked her up, turned out to be a pain or just plain inconvenient. Side berths for one, I'm short and can stand up in the main salon with my boots on, but those berths are too low. thinking of raising them by 3" which with cushions will bring you close to chair height. Figure it'll make the space under them a bit more usable, provide slightly wider berths, and be more comfortable to sit on.

Thanks
Ken.

Ken,

I had to replace the cable once and it ran another couple of years. When the bearings in the skeg go you will know it. The odds of finding one of those skegs is close to nil. It really is easier to do what I did and put a electronic speedlog in.

Regarding the no-hole installation of a depth sounder, if you want to sacrifice part of your underberth storage, that should be relatively flat. You will want to fabricate a box with one end open. The sender is mounted opposite that side and you fill the box with mineral oil after you have glassed it to the hull. You might find a half globe to do the same. I haven't seen one recently, but someone was making them and there are a lot of eyes on this forum. The half-globe makes it a bit easier to get the sounder perpendicular to the bottom.

I had a quick thought. Find one of those small kids rubber basketballs. Cut it in half and use it as a mold for the globe section. You will need to use a release agent but the ball is flexable enough to peel nicely off the globe. (Bows taken here)

Hope this helps. Questions are welcome. This is the place for answers.

SJ23 Tech Tip E05 - Depth Sounder Installation, Shoot Through the Hull [google]
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/23..._tips/e05.html

For oil immersion housing many people have adapted a threaded pvc pipe coupling and a threaded plug. Or a threaded cleanout.
If the cleanout pipe after carving for the slope of the hull is not deep enough then a threaded pipe with a threaded cap might be adapted.
Probably best if the transducer itself is installed absolutely flat in the housing:

Taking an idea from the techtip:
You have to remove all gunge and paint from the shoot-thru site - down to green fiberglass. You can then get some idea if there is air trapped in the laminate and find a good solid spot.* Then create a dam and pour on epoxy to make a deadflat 'waterline' level.** Putting a cleanout on solid flat ledge would then be easy, and if the ledge is oversized might allow a little moving around room to find the sweet spot (using the bag of water trick - also mentioned on the SJ23 page.)
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* if you choose a place for the transducer that is over tabbing done when furniture and bulkheads were glued in, you likely could find bubbles or plain slapdash laminations. Pearson used roving for layup and tabbing which can entrap small dots of air.
**Creating a flat ledge in an A/C hull is problematic. You may have to do two or three pourings to avoid heat buildup. Getting epoxy hot creates bubbles. My choice would be a good quality 100% solids laminating epoxy. The thinner stuff won't trap bubbles.
imco.

Ebb,

Great ideas...I am not sure I would want the transducer rattling around in a bag of water, but it sounds as though it works. I also would want the transducer to be replaceable so I would not glue the transducer down. Other than that, anything holding the transducer close to perpendicular to the bottom does the job.

Here on THE RIGHT COAST (heh) Valhalla is warmly wrapped in the finest (well maybe not finest) canvas. We had a storm blow through here so the cover blew off and I now have snow inside and out. How lucky can a guy get. Also I am going to have to find some patch material this next spring and get my needle, pliers and thread out to keep the cover going.

Spring is coming!:o