Self steering systems - Wind Vanes
Hi there,
Well my boat is high and dry, i hauled early, about a month ago, so I could start martime school. And I hope to use the association as a resource for a class. And for my ariel, here in Maine. I would like to add a simple self steering system, that uses the wind and the existing rudder. I have read about some but know not of any. Does any one have one? Or know of a good company? Please let me know, and I will writting up my findings for the class and for the news bulletin.
Thanks
Elie #20
Windvane and Crusing Gear
We had a Windpilot on our cruising boat. Fantastic equipment.
Mine was damaged in shipment - the folks did not bat an eye, just replaced it. All the way from Germany.
The Windpilot, the Maxprop, the Schaeffer Roller Furling, The Autohelm Tiller Pilot and the Yanmar engine made our cruise.
By the way, you can never have too much fuel or too much horsepower on a cruising SAILBOAT. Nor can you have too many GPS's
Jim
We have also been known to employ.....
We have also been known to employ that method in the south.
If said fender pops, set in the shade on the bank for a 'spell' and wait.
(water temp on the surface was 91f on Sunday afternoon) :eek:
self steering for the Ariel
If anyone has been searching for affordable light weight wind vane self steering this may be a good choice, it is the one I'm favoring.
http://www.mistervee.com/?q=newsletter/subscriptions
With the discount and the EURO exchange it may be hard to beat.
make your self-steering into a book....beyond a web project
Scott. You have at least 50 to 60 photos there
at least half of which should be half page or larger
to get your text across.
Don't know what numbers of pages the text has
if laid out in brochure form. But in book form you would
ace the web project. A well designed book would bear no resemblance.
You really have, as I say, a unique monograph
that would find readers and users with all kinds of plastic classics.
who would want a copy..... if available in book form.
An editor might suggest setting the book up as 'voyage' of discovery.
Showing how considerations of balance and wind and materials showed you how to
psyche out the perfect self-steer system for any sailboat.
It might even be desirable if you found someone to diagram
and illustrate certain rope tricks you have there.
Make your piece into a picture book.
In my considered opinion, a direct download -
at least in what I'm able to do by hitting the print button -
in no way does justice to your ideas & presentation - the photos are just too small.
Detail is too hard to see, for the most part.
I would venture a guess that your thoughts as well
have a larger and wider audience of owners of many later boats than ours.
'Gail Carriger' self steering
Ok you guys, I can assure you that the shenom would agree
that of our 3.2 billion live genes there isn't one squiggle for Imagination.
How many daughters of geniuses are geniuses?
Lisa Manelli? (come on, be real). Rosalind Hicks (Agatha Christie)
The offspring is the result of her own individual sequencing
for which there is no equation or computer program.
If aye should make a claim, it is that as the incurable curmudgeon
aye never got in her way!
Even Way Back When.;)
weighing the 13kg Pacific Light*
(1) The articulated cast Almag35 main servopendulum unit - without attachments: 19.25lbs.
2) Coated ply wind paddle 'vane': 1.25lbs.
3)** The bag of blocks, line, chain, mounting bolts, bronze chain catch, etc.: 3.25lbs.
(MINUS the .65lb of three supplied hex wrenches.)
4) Hollow airfoil aluminum rudder: 3.50lbs.
Total without mounting flange: 27.25lbs.
5) Alternate standoff mounting (F 1) flange: 9.75lbs.
[what is the weight of standard P.L. mounting (F 0) flange, sans bolts?]
6) Line spreader bar: 2.20lbs.
Grand total weight this Pacific Light: 39.20lbs.
The vane came with a spare unpainted ply wind paddle (1.10lbs),
bolts for the mounting flange included, as well as assembly tools.
Tools, spare wind paddle, and plastic shipping bags not included in this weighing.
**3) Integral tiller fitting, light chain link, line & blocks might not all be counted in the manufacturer's aft-of-stern-rail total weight.
It is hard to know what is included or not in the Windpilot brochure weight of 28.6601lbs (13kg).
13kg minus Pacific Light's Sonoma California tally of 27.25 = 1.4101 lbs. Is this near the weight of a normal (F 0) flange bracket? Doubtful.
[Ebb, UIC
ungratedful incurable curmudgeon.]
You know, I'm not putting Pacific Light or anything down here, just trying to find out stuff.
And of course you, gentle reader, might be interested in some of this stuff.
Stuff sometimes doesn't reveal itself until you ask questions.
Asking questions about stuff can reveal how stupid you can be at times.
But I'd be many times more stupid if I didn't ask. SO, ENLIGHTEN ME, please.
Doesn't matter if I'm seen as stupid. Rather be stupid than wrong.
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*on a brand new fully charged Legal-for-Trade digital platform scale.
ocean's thirteen windvanes
Horizontal servo-pendulum windvanes tend to be the smallest, lightest, most efficient self-steering pilots. OK in light wind over two knots - come into their own as wind increases.
Generally cannot be used as an emergency rudder, paddles are too small and light.
(See windvane paddle as a remote trimtab to the boat's main rudder.)
Boat's rudder shaft bearing must have no slop and tiller head little play. Control lines from the unit must be a non-stretch line (Dyneema), rigged out of traffic with no chafe, thru a minimum number of light free-running blocks.
In 2012 expect to pay around $2000 for a ready to bolt on windvane. Plus or minus $500, or more - it can vary widely - with unexpected addons - and work time if you buy one in kit form - or used.
Shipping costs, taxes can substantially jack the total cost.
Imco it's well worth the extra bumph to have a vane shipped from Europe by UPS or FedEx directly to your door. They handle paperwork, customs, language difficulties, the visit to the airport, parking, & so forth.
Quest began with indentifying the lightest units first, followed by cost, ruggedness, materials, maintenance.
Focus is on vanes that might be most appropriate for a 26' Alberg sloop. Favor pilots offered by upfront individual INVentors.
Here are the suspects arranged lightest (advertised) weight first. Kg/lb.
1) MrVane (Netherlands) 7.5/16. www.mrvane.com/
2) VectaVane (UK) 9/20. http://www.vectavane.co.uk/
3) South Atlantic (Argentina) 12.5/27.5. http://www.south-atlantic.com.ar/
4) Windpilot Pacific Light (Germany) 13/28. http://windpilot.com/
5) Navik (defunct) 13.6/30.
6) Bouvaan (Netherlands) 14/31. www.hollandwindvane.com/
7) CapeHorn (Canada) 16/35. www.capehorn.com/
8) Neptune (UK) 17/37.5 www.windvane.co.uk/
9) Sailomat (California) 20.5/46 http://www.sailomat.com/
10) Monitor (California) 24/53 www.selfsteer.com/
11) Voyager (Canada) 25/55 http://vwsportleagues.ca/windvanes
12) Norvane (California) ?/? http://www.selfsteeting.com/
13) Fleming (Australia) ?/? www.flemingselfsteer.com/
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1) MrVane. Sven Heesterman inv. $2074USD + shipping $175. Extras? Carbon & frp tube, foam paddle, plastic vane.
Kit assembly, 2-3hrs. There are various upgrades & configurations.
2) VectaVane. Rusty Lea inv. $1508. Trimtab on paddle. S.S. AL castings, nylon bearings. Blade does not tilit up. Boat needs to be still to remove unit.
3) South Atlantic. S-301 orffshore kit. 4bolt mount, one bolt removal. $1618. Looks like Windpilot. Euro market. Wood/epoxy vane & paddle.
4) Windpilot. P.L. Peter Forthmann inv. (from experience) flange mount option might add significant weight. $2350 included EVERYTHING needed to sailaway. EVERYTHING included shipping the PacificLight to my front door !
5) Navik.Defunct. $100 to $1250 (per current examples) s.s and lexan. MrVane has parts for Navik he has made. Manual avalable Plastimo online.
6) Bouvaan Holland Windvane. Sm kit $1028USD, requires 60-100hrs plus welding. Ball bearings (rather than sleeves) Finished $1811, assume factory. Supply own leadmetal, blocks and line.
7) Cape Horn. Yves Gelinas inv. $3460 standard model. Usually installed with horizontal axis glassed thru transom for keel-hung rudders like Albergs. To a quadrant OR lines to tiller. Other configurations, weight? Lots of personality to website with good info.
8) Neptune $2500, accesories extra. LM25AL castings, 6063 tubes, 316 shafts, teflon impregnated bearings. Paddle, frp. Airfoil, ply.M790.
Open and revealing website.
Sailomat, Monitor, Voyager are great windvanes but imco they belong on larger boats. (Litlgull originaly came with an auxillary rudder Auto Helm ! Anything is possible.)
May have just missed the data, but presenting your windvane for public sale without disclosing weight is BS!
Fleming Global Equipe. $5000USD. Norvane Model 12 (to 26'). $1890.
Wouldn't it be fantastic to see all 13 collected together - you know, side by side, see what's what, see what really stands out......then......
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Both Scanmar(Monitor) and Windpilot sell SOS Rudders that are useless in an unplanned emergency - like when you accidently disable your boat rudder - by rotten luck - in howling winds and troubled waters. These rudders reguire expensive pre-installed flange mounts, a flat calm marina, a break for lunch, and maybe some prime time on the hard.
A real emergency rudder is one deployable when the boat is in real trouble!
BUT for the bluewater adventurer there was a credible emergency rudder IDEA floating around for awhile (may have been posted on the Pacific Cup site) that requires a cassette in the form of a long and strong open wire rod basket hinged to the transom into which you drop a foam composite blank with an airfoil shape on the part in the water. Gudgeons (or XHD T-track) are permanently prefixed on transom, the cassette/scabbard has pinions, one long bolt, or track slides as part of it, which allows the basket to be hung on the transom befor the blade goes into the water stream. The 6' long blade THEN inserts into the basket, which when fully housed reaches the proper number of feet into the water. Also extends above stern-rail for tiller or lines to steer by. Imco a great idea... with design problems to overcome... if developed and made workable could be a real emergency rudder cruisers are looking for.
Transom has to be cleared quickly & easily of anything that's in the way of swinging the extra rudder - as well as its tiller.
www.pineapplesails.com/articles/
www.pacificcup.org
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:DNeptune's description of servo-pendulum removal:
"Main shaft spigots into a mounting boss held in place by a 12mm capscrew
which locates into a dimple in the shaft. Loosen screw. Whole gear can be lifted off.":cool: (pure techno poetry!)
CapeHorn VS The Remarkable Course Stability of the Pearson Ariel.
CapCraigsuh,
Never looked into the Galines pilot very thoroly, because A338 has an OB well and cannot have a vane mounted thru the transom.
I favor inventors over corporations, too. So the edge goes with sailor putterers....who have personalties & telephones.
[I'm not interested, however, in his mast climbing steps, which are clever - but for somebody like me, too dangerous!]
Imco the CapeHorn is too heavy to be mounted outboard on the transom of a boat as light as ours.
That's just a feeling. He may have reengineered over time and lightened it up.
Have to say, because CapeHorn was designed for a full keel Alberg 30....it has, for us, provenance.
I think Yves can be found at yearly Strictly Sail shows.
BUT I'd look seriously into the lightest windvane on the list here.
Can usually have conversations with your windvane supplier!:cool:
Inventors are marked in the list with INV.
I'm really disappointeed, because I wasn't sharp enough to ask what the special stand off mount it needed would weigh
before I purchased Pacific Light.... about 1/3 more extra weight over advertised..... unacceptable at this point in the game.
Things might have been different but for a missed communication!
I think TOTAL weight for a windvane on our 18' plus waterline - 26' - 2 1/2 ton - cruiser, should be no more than 26lbs.
A pound a foot. Modern materials can make that happen.
I'm very impressed with pbryant's "The remarkable course stability of the Pearson Ariel"
found on the Sailing and Events Forum 9/28/2012. NO WINDVANE.
I'll experiment with A338's course keeping capabilities befor I hang any wind pilot.
From pbryant's YouTube demos (two or three!), it certainly looks like it's not necessary to go that route.
.... if your boat is balanced.....and you know the boat like pbryant. (and the boat knows pbryant, too!)
Pbryant's 'bravura' adjustment tuning gesture may be required for everyone to get the same results!;)
Non gear assisted course keeping would make revealing discussions with other A/C sailors, coastal and offshore.