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Hello, I am a new member of this forum, as well as the new owner of Hull #304. It is definitely a "fixer upper," but is in sound shape. Any observations would be appreciated based on the photos. Especially any tips on getting the green carpet up and refinishing the deck. Here are some photos.
Welcome aboard.
I would suggest a wedge to chip the golfball from the cockpit to the foredeck. Then its an easy putt into the cowl vent.
Just kidding. Boat looks like it had some care and attention. We've seen MUCH worse around here.
I'm sure the carpet was put down to cover a variety of evils. Just going to have to be scraped off and see what you've got. The carpet people use a heavy scraper that looks like a flat shovel or edging tool. I doubt the original nonskid is going to be worth trying to save.
Then you have to decide whether the deck needs a recore.
Then comes grinding and painting. The carpet glue might cause some problems.
But, we're getting ahead of the game.
The cracks on deck around the rudder post are fairly typical.
Great you're aboard. This website is a huge resource, hope you find what you're looking for using the Search button on the top of the page. But you may want to come right in with your own questions and advice.
You may have to invent your own method for removing the carpet, don't think I've ever seen that befor!!! :eek:
My guess is that the DFO used flooring adhesive. Now you can always go buy lethal mastic removers with good ole methylene chloride, and almighty caustics in them - poisonally, I would research the brand REMOVALL, and there's a KleenStrip remover in a green can. Haven't used either. Don't know what's in them - maybe based on citrus acid. Both say 'environmental' on the label. But better ask them if it's ok to use on old polyester gelcoat. Removers are specific, so it's the right one you want. And ones that won't dissolve your lungs and the meat off yer fingers.
Might pry and scrape a corner up and see if naptha will clean off the residue left on the gelcoat. If it does then look into the "green" removers. Might cross hatch the carpet (what? 2" squares?) with a utility knife to try to get the remover under the turf. Or try BOILING WATER. Or a heat gun, tho it might melt the plastic. You might be able to rent a pole scraper, a kind of longhandled chisel for stand-up work. To avoid naptha for final cleaning, there's a biodegradable cleaner called KRUD KUTTER, that supposedly is very good. GOOD LUCK!
I find old boats are like young kids....you'll find you have less free time , they can be frustrating and aggravating but fun , rewarding and will give you a sence of pride too.Have fun! There is a ton of info here...as well as a wealth of knowledge and Ebbs good humour :) .Ask direct questions and you'll get lots of answers. Must be cold where you sail....I've never seen an Ariel wearing a sweater! COOL !
[size=3][size=4]Welcome aboard![/size] [/size]
<O:p</O:p
[size=3]Looking at the switch panel, it looks like it is an inboard model. [/size]
[size=3]I see an outboard hung off the transom. Is the A-4 still installed? <O:p[/size]
<O:p</O:p
[size=3]The really nice thing is, no matter what lurks beneath the turf you have bought a good boat that is worthy of the work she may require to bring her back.[/size]
<O:p</O:p
[size=3]I highly recommend the manual that the association sells. It is a great 'companion' to this forum. I am quite sure that between it, and the volumes of information buried here, you will find the answer to any question that you might ask........[/size]
<O:p</O:p
[size=3].....That is except for 'how to remove astro-turf from the topsides?' [/size]
[size=3][/size]
[size=3].... No, I don't think anyone here has faced that one yet. http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussi...lies/smile.gif[/size]
[size=3]Seriously, you really have bought a great boat. Congratulations![/size]
Ariel #304 formerly resided in the SF Bay Area -- inboard engine and all. Had a yellow hull before it left for Texas. Next appeared in Oklahoma. Our new owner has failed to include his location when registering, so we're not sure of the boat's location.
This boat was the first to have its strongback reinforced by the method shown in the manual (first and second editions). The owner was an engineer who came up with the fix.
Outboards on transoms are frowned upon by yours truly. The reasons are posted and can be found by using the search function. Bottom line, it's dangerous.
I appreciate all of the input thus far. I browsed this site prior to purchasing the boat and found a wealth of information I felt I could rely upon in fixing the boat up.
My name is Bret and I live in Norman, Oklahoma. The boat is slipped at Lake Hefner in Oklahoma City. Prior to my acquisition of the boat, it sat in the slip shown in the pictures for two years without ever being untied. I thought she needed rescuing. I have taken it out several times and am impressed with her.
Thanks for the info Bill regarding its previous owner. Where can I learn more about what has been done to it? Secondly, the boat does have an internal A4, however, the previous owner said it needed a rebuild due to leak in the water jacket. Not sure about what that means yet. My intentions are to rebuild the A4 and get the outboard off of the transom.
Bill, you said the outboard was dangerous, is there a hidden danger, or the danger inherent in every outboard? I am a pretty safety conscious guy and want your feedback.
Lastly, I have pulled up the carpet in a couple of corners and old, dry, brown adhesive coats the deck. I think I will have to find "an inconspicuous corner" and start experimenting with getting it off.
Again, thanks for the input. Bret
Make sure you become a dues paying member and order the paper manual
Its invaluable material
You will like this association :)
Iceman
A transom mounted outboard is nice because you get the engine out of the water while sailing or docked.
On the downside, the engine could be swamped motoring in very rough conditions. You've also got weight at the extreme end of the boat.
On the Ariel, you have to sit on the lazarette or lean over it to operate the engine, which could be awkward or dangerous.
But, your boat has a pushpit so I don't see a real problem for the time being. It works, use it, go sailing, have fun.
I agree with "commander Pete" that they can be swamped in rough seas , but an even more dangerous trait of a "bracket hung" outboard is their inability to keep the prop IN THE WATER in big stuff.I've had several boats with them and the screaming engine as the prop breaks free of the water at the crests of waves is not a nice sound. Nor is the loss of momentum or the extra wear on the water pump.Bracket hung outboards and rough stuff is a no no in my books.#50
I can't figure out why the boom has extra rigging in center. I understand this one has sailed to Hawaii, was this a protective measure, or just extra rigging? I was contemplating removing this extra hardware or rerigging so I can raise the jib from the cocpit. Any suggestions? I have searched the archives and looked for ideas. Any favorites? Bret
Can you verify that?Quote:
Originally Posted by legalair
Iwas told by a previous owner that 304 sailed from Sausalito to Hawaii and back and that this was recorded somewhere, possibly at the club in CA this boat belonged to. The previous owner told me this club either kept records or had some information regarding this trip. It would rather nice to verify it though, any ideas? Bill, you seemed to know about the previous owner who did the strongback conversion, is there any place to find this info?
Any help on the rigging? :confused:
Need a better picture. It could be a vang/preventer setup similar to the "Dutchman" (I think it's called that), but a photo of the setup would help. Nice to have for long, down wind sailing.Quote:
Originally Posted by legalair
Looks to me like the same set up as is on French's boat. (pretty sure that is where I saw it).
Might ask him for his impressions.
preventer, yes!
Keeps the boom from flying from one side to the other, during accidental Jibing.
Before I knew what mine did, i was told it was a Vang, mostly racing stuff. So I took it off. Sailing in light to medium wind no problem. But in big wind, handy to have! One less thing to worry as much about while dealing with strong unstable winds.
Many boats to not have one, so it is your call. I ran with mine off for a year, after I needed it I put back on and kept it. Came in handly, but I'm still a toddler sailor :)
Well, I finally removed all of the "astro-turf" from the deck. I guess my wife can't affectionately call her the avocado boat anymore. As you see from the pictures, the adhesive left a rather big mess. 3M adhesive remover doesn't even put a dent in it. Because the non-skid not so non-skid anymore, I was thinking of just sanding the deck down and reapplying a new non non skid surface. There a lots of threads regarding non-skid, by my novice searches didn't turn up any info regarding the proper methods to remove the old non skid and finish. What do you experienced refurbishers suggest?
I have seen a few threads on recoring, but I have no soft spots at all that I have found and don't feel it is necessary to gut the deck and start from scratch. There are a few repairs in places you see on the picture that probably require it, but nothing extensive. The hardware was bedded down very well, so I think the core is fine.
A few suggestions about non skid choices and finish removal procedures will help. I have a sanding block, a belt sander, an orbital sander, etc. Is this the way to go. Do i just take the finish down till the non skid is gone and stop there?
Also, my coamings are very dried out and when i tried to remove them to refinsh, they are hopelessly (maybe) stuck to the sides of the cockpit. It appears to be a silicon bedding or something keeping it stuck. I also noticed both boards have the beginning of a split where the cockpt stops. Can this be reinforced with some filler or are they a write off and need to be replaced altogether? I think I would break them in half if I applied the force to remove them.
I sailed the boat extensively over the last 9 months and have found the boat to be a sanity saver. Its time to pay it back with some lovin' care. Bret
my before picture is here:
http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussi...achmentid=2214
Hello legal air,
338's coamings also split at aft end in relation to step cutout. Depending on what your refinish plan is, eg strip all the old finish off befor sanding, you might get close to the cracks with a magnifier and see how the splits clean up. If you can move them by hand you can do something.
338's coamings were also held on with silicone. Make sure you have backed out all 8 screws (per side) along the seat. Make sure all other screws are out also. Screws go into wood blocks (cleats) so they shouldn't be too hard to move. Use a dental pic or an awl to clear the slot of the screw. An impact drill (you can afford the $240 Hitachi?) with a bit that exactly fits the slot or an old fashioned brace, again with a bit that fits tight in the slot, and steady pressure should start them.
The silicone on the 338 coamings was very sloppy, and not everywhere. If you decide to slip a wonder bar down in the crack, feel and tease it befor you start prying. Might get movement by slipping the crooked end of the wonder bar under the bottom edge. Easy,now. Also slip thin bendy spatulas in the crack to help cut the rubber. 3 or 4. Slide them in. Make sure the ends of the coaming are free. Slip spatulas in all the cracks.
You'll have a grand old time getting the rubber off. Slice and push with a sharp strate scraper. Then a pull scrapper, the best have carbide blades.
Pay attention to the splits by leaving them alone a much as possible. A mild chemical remover might be good here for the old finish.
When the wood is as clean as you want it, see if you get movement in the split ends. Hope you haven't forced any goop into the crack. Dental pics. See if you can close the splits so the surface is as it was in the beginning! If the stripper requires a water rinse, a toothbrush might help clearing the crack.
Dry. Suggest TiteBond 3 to glue it up. Bend the crack open by hand, a little helps. Squirt glue in. Might bluetape the margins of both sides of the crack. Leaving just the crack exposed. That would allow wiping off the squeeze out easy. Don't want to smear glue on the mahogany.
Clamp flat side with softwood battens (make sure nearly all of the squeeze out is wiped off.) If some of the batten glues to the mahogany, you'll sand it off. Then clamp edge to edge. Clamp the flat sides lightly, first Slowly fit the split back together. This might have been a dry run, first.
When set, sand. Pull scrape the hard glue. If you didn't get that exact match, use a sharp scraper to remove wood, rather than trying to sand it even.
If you have coamings that are 3/4" thick, now you might use some metal pins up into the split from the bottom edge as mechanical keepers. One or two 2 1/2" s.s #8 screws would do it. Good luck on drilling straight holes. Find modern screws that have straight shanks and drill the holes bigger than normal, just enough for the threads to catch. Might drive them in with a little polysulfide on the threads. Use round head screws, no countersinking!, you'll never see em.
Even if you don't get a perfect rejoining of the crack, with all that varnish on there, who will notice?
When you finally get to seal and varnish do all six sides of the coamings.
That's one way.
There's ten other. ;)
I got the coamings off sorta how ebb describes, pounding several putty knives one next to the other behind the coamings.
I remember Nathan mentioned somewhere about making a garrote out of a guitar string and dowels. Pull it behind the coaming to saw through the sealant.
On the old adhesive, I'd be a little concerned about grinding it into the deck. It might cause problems with the paint adhering in the future.
I'd probably feel better if the old adhesive was hard instead of rubbery.
Maybe nothing to worry about.
Trying to strip it off with chemicals is going to be time-consuming or ineffective, as you're finding out.
I'd probably sand it all off and down to flat gelcoat. The clean it up with a few chemicals including a solvent wash like Interlux 202. Then give it a final sanding and wash.
The deck hardware has to come off. No way to get a good finish otherwise. This way you can tell whats going on in the core. If you need to recore or "drill and fill" an area, this would be the time.
You'll be overdrilling and epoxy filling all the hardware holes, which gives you peace of mind in the future.
All these yellow boats popping up here lately :) What deck color looks good?
A lighter shade I think
http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/a...tid=3010&stc=1
I was thrilled to get the responses, Thanks! Since the pictures have been taken, I have taken off most deck hardware and will begin the overdrilling and epoxying this weekend.
Coamings: I do play guitar so I will spend a little time with that method. Ebb, I appreciate the tips on restoring the coamings. Teak is a little pricey and hard to find in the dimensions I need. Definitely worth trying. I do a little woodwork so I should be able to give it a good shot.
Carpet adhesive: The adhesive is hard and not rubbery at all. I tried using a hard plastic bristled stipper brush with the stripper and it didn't work. I thought of trying it again with a bronze brush to get into the non skid. May work. I just wonder to do this right, that I just shouldn't take it down to flat and redo. i am going throught the trouble anyway. I do need to do some glass repair on the aft starboard side anyway.
As far as the yellow hull, that is as good as gone. I am thinking about a midnight blue or deep "Sooner" red color for the hull. In addition, the name of the boat will revert back to "Endeavor" from the current name "Ronny G." I don't know any Ronny G's anyway. When I found out the former name was Endeavor, I was thrilled. Being an Aviation Attorney and aviation nut, it was fitting to have a craft named after a fine ship of another type. My dog's Gordon and Cooper (Gordon Cooper) can attest to this trend.
Lastly, what a blast it has been to sail such a wonderful boat. Not just thrown together like some boats today. I look forward to keeping this thread updated on my progress. I just gutted the interior of all the teak trim and the, yes, carpet glued to the inside of my boat. It's kind of exciting starting the project out. My wallet isn't as excited as I am though. Bret
Bret,
Sorry didn't mean to patronize. In wanting to help, I tend to get too complicated not knowing another's skill levels. Have thought bringing up methods would get many responses from other readers - like BS-ing in a bar - not always the case - but we often get a quorum on this forum.
Not a resident expert. Only a scurvy enthusiast.
Have fun on Endeavor's upgrade!
Good to know, isn't it, a lot of us are (working) in the same boat?
Ebb, your information was exactly what I needed. My woodworking experience only goes so far as working with new wood, not restoring wood. I always wondered whether split wood could be made strong again and you gave me hope.
As far as the group goes, I don't believe I would be attempting this restoration if not for the timely, informative responses and various methods all of you provide. Thanks! Bret
That's right! C'pete sez
be a little concerned about grinding off old adhesive.
Silicone can only be laboriously scraped off.
Avoid driver solvents like acetone to clean the surface of the gelcoat where the coaming was mounted.
Naptha is about the limit on the boat or the wood. It is better to abrade the surface impetuously with like 36 grit to remove stubborn rubber crumbs, then 80 grit. No machine heat.
One great woodworking tool is the Nicholson #49 cabinet rasp.* Jamestown has consistent better pricing for this gem. If you did end up with a bulge on your coaming restoration, you'd grasp this baby in your fingers, on the body of the tool not out at the tine or handle, and gently work over the bulge at 45 degrees to the grain as a sort of shaving tool. Just until you start scratching the flats. Then the sandpaper wrapped around a flat block of wood or a 3-M rubber sander.
The rasp is dead flat itself, or should be. IE one side is flat, other side rounded. Its's better than a low-angle plane or rough grit sometimes to establish a flat plane. Has endless uses. It'll get you out of trouble a hundred times befor it gets dull! Great for fiberglass.
*[If the japanese made this tool it would be made exactly the same - but the teeth would be pointed the other way. :rolleyes:
Would guess it's handmade by its price and feel. And look, it looks like a fine japan tool. Very often use it by holding the front end. The teeth are sharp but you get used to the pain.]
I dont know the hooz or wize any one would put ass-pro turf on any boat.it doesnot shed wah-wah... it retains it.and it has no non-skid properties at all.I hoid of someone using it on the deck of a large tri-moron.it was found capsized(very stable in that situation) trying to get around Point Conception (conniption).his body was found face down not far from it.Az foar as I am concoind,duh only place fer any carpet on a boat is under the batteries.
I am in the process of sanding/grinding the cabin for refinishing. I need to get the laminate off the berth bulkhead that is currently under the strongback conversion plate. Is it safe to dissassemble the conversion with the mast up?
Secondly, I was considering non crane methods to lower the mast. Cranes are $300.00 a pop to use, so $600 altogether. I thought of devising two poles with a U shaped fitting at the top and a strong handle at the bottom. These two poles would be fitted under the spreader attachments, close to the mast where the fitting is strong. I would have two strong gentlemen lift the mast up with the poles and then have several people help stabilize it and walk it down.
If someone has tried this method and died, or if it is just plain stupid, please let me know.
I am also considering right now how I want to refinish the interior. I haven't decided whether to relaminate the bulkheads and sides of the seats, or whether to paint them. Any comments by those who have gone before?
Again, I appreciate all of the help. Bret (pictures will follow)
$600 to unstep & step the mast is pretty steep.
There's a few discussions about unstepping the mast around here. You need to lift the mast straight up to clear the mast step (and the electrical conduit on the Commander).
You also have to prevent the mast from falling fore and aft, or toppling to one side or the other.
I'm thinking an A-frame arrangement would be best. The bases of the A-frame could be secured to the lower shroud chainplates on either side. The top of the A-frame would be above the spreaders. Some sort of multi-part tackle would hoist the mast up and then lower the mast as you walk the bottom of the mast forward or back.
That's my theory at least.
On the laminate, I'd just fill the holes and paint it.
Edit: Here's what Tim did
http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/s...ghlight=unstep
Here as some of the latest photos of the boat renovation. I had cracks in the large portlight frames welded and powdercoated a bronze color, then ordered the small bronze portlights and winch stands from Southern Lights. Pricey, but nice. Should be done in about two weeks. I hope.
Do to the condition of the teak on the boat, I had to remanufacture all of the teak except for the traveller base. Lot of time, lots of varnish, lots of unique cuts with the tools that extended my previous skill level, that is for sure. The most challenging was the coaming blocks where they attach to the cabin. Not fun without old one as guides. Didn't have one that wasn't destroyed in the takeout phase.
Looks GREAT !!! love the deck colour.Sure looks like a new boat.
High carumba! That is one nice looking boat. The teak work is top notch, bar none. It seems like years since this thread had some action and you've made up for it. More pictures, please.
Red has the longest wavelengths of light sailors can see.
That red is the redest red whot red can be.
Next to that red in the light spectrum is INFRARED.
One extra stray wiggle of red from off that hull....
I believe your Ariel will become only seeable with goggles.
Bits and pieces looking good too!
I was just thinking...with that nice biege deck colour...please don't ruin it using green indoor/outdoor carpet. Just recently saw a nice light brown sample that I thought would match much better when you get to re- applying it :) PS..Ebb....that be "Ferreri Red". Looks mighty fine
o o o o p s :)
A very far cry from how you found her - well done!
When is launch day? :D
Very nice work! I now have teak envy.
One caution - I can tell you from experience that you may want effective siphon breaks on those thru hulls below the transom. It took me a couple days after my first launch to figure out why I kept nearly sinking. My automatic bilge pump was the culprit. It was only a problem with 3 or more people in the cockpit or while motoring in following seas.
I'll second that - good advice! It's happened to me on a couple of occasions as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorcave
Jeez-o-pete.
I am continually amazed and impressed by the level of skill and artistry exhibited by our membership. I only wish that each of you had slips adjacent to mine, such that I might garner just a bit of each of your abilities.
p.s. I could repeatedly post this comment in every one of you A/C artisans' threads. Cheers to the preservationist in the lot of you.
WOW!!!! Looking good!!!!
Man I love looking at your 'after' pics. The port trim will look awesome once installed. That cream deck is great. I'll probably copy your deck colour. Please keep posting pics. I remember when you 1st came along..out of the blue and posted those 1st pictures with the green turf decks...then nothing for 3 years. You've sure turned the frog into a princess. We all chuckled...I'm sure you along with us when Commander Pete replied back then with his standard wit and humour we all love.."I would suggest a wedge to chip the golfball from the cockpit to the foredeck. Then its an easy putt into the cowl vent." (anyone that hasn't looked...check out post #1)....well...you sure have the last laugh now.She's a beauty. Ya gotta show us once the ports are installed.
Thanks all for the nice comments. And Ebb, I "red" your comments about my choice of red and assure you two things . . . . It isn't as bright as my flash makes it appear, and two, my wife is a Oklahoma Sooner fan so I really didn't have a choice in the matter, if I wanted my boat restored!!!!
Here are some new pics, some of the teak work I did for the companionway and some of the portlights!
I think it is still a few weeks off for launch. I have a "newer" atomic four that needs some tweaking, I have to rewire the whole boat, and lastly, there is alot of detail work.
I will soon have a $15,000 dollar boat worth 7K. Yee Haw!!!!!! Be sure I will insure it based upon all my receipts!!!
As far as remanufacturing the Teak Companionway pieces, the footboard was the toughest. (Top right pic, left most piece) Lots of router and plain old chisel work. Don't want to do this again!
I will take that into account, thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorcave
Here are the Portlights from outside, inside and looking down at the outside.
Next are the coamings. I have them cut but they need to be sanded, attached to blocks, and finished. Will post some pics when done!!
BEAUTIFUL!
Wow, she sure is a looker!
I LOVE those ports. I bet they were spendy.... I would like to have some I could open without fear that the corroded knife edge would leak and the fragile hinges would crumble!
Man that brightwork is wonderful! Thanks for taking the time to take / share the pictures. Look forward to seeing more!
Righto! NICE lights.
And personally I like them au naturale. Or non buffed.
Have you got bronze frames for the windows too?
Gorgeous.
Beauty...............ya gotta be proud.
I looked at that, but it was over 800 dollars, so I took the old alluminum ones, had them welded where broken, ground down, then powdercoated the color you see, the closest to bronze I could find.Quote:
Originally Posted by ebb
The last of the brightwork. Except for the Coamings and a few inside pieces. Good riddance!!!!
A little intimidating at first, but a good quality #50 rasp makes all the difference.
Got the bottom coat on, the windows in, most of the deck hardware installed, boom and mast painted. Starting to come together.
Not the best shots, but the light wasn't great.
Lookin G R E A T !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Flippin' Hay-they're looking great!!!!
S W E E T. :)
I am almost done. Here are some updated photos! I am going to make a teak header to go over the strongback and put three nautical weather dials in the header. Bought some brass accented bulkhead lights today also. Just hadn't put 'em in at post time. You can see the A/C duct in the starboard cabinet. Marine radio/cd is going to left and up from that. Speakers will go at the beginning of the shelf.
Here is a pic of the A/C cabinet and the new berth cushions.
Beautiful - a great job!
I enjoyed looking at your quick progress!
I noticed the color of the mast... Is this the Ariel mast?
So... What are your plans? Where will you be sailing? Are you contemplating an ocean voyage, or do you have a lake nearby?
Beauty !!!!!!!!!!!!
Great job on your Ariel....! I just pulled mine for refit, you have given me hope!
Original mast as far as I know. Just launched her into Lake Hefner, I local lake here in OKC. Getting her rigged up tonight and tomorrow. Will update later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
Any reasonable offers for my baby? Comes with a trailer also. I hate to even consider selling her but my slip will most likely be unavailable in May. The slips on the other side of the lake are very prone to theft and vandalism and would hate for anything to happen to her.
Some amenities include, marine heat and a/c which is super quiet and efficient with programmable thermostat. Keeps the boat at 75 in 100 degree outside temp.
Flat Screen TV with built-in DVD on swivel mount for viewing in cabin or berth.
All new interior lights. amenities
High end Harken traveler system, all new hardware, sheets, etc.
Contact this poster, Wanted: Pearson Ariel Later;)
Thought I'd bring this old thread back to life. Where have you been? How does she sail? Any adventures? Too pretty a boat to not use.
She sails awesome. Was able to keep the slip on the good side of the lake. Sailed her quite a bit this year. Always get alot of stares for sure! Handles this Oklahoma wind with ease!
legalair, what lake are you on? Sirocco is on Oolagah.
Lake Hefner. Boat still for sale, any takers?
I've been looking for an Ariel for a while now. What more can you tell me about #304 that can't be seen from the photos? Specifically, it appears you've done much of the restoration. In your opinion, what still needs to be done? Engine type and condition? Also, do you have a ballpark figure in mind?