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I am the extremely proud new owner of a 1967 Ariel #407, "Houdini", in Clear Lake, TX...looking for a little practical guidance in setting up properly for a cruise along the Texas coast. Questions would range as follows: what practical limitations have people discovered for provisioning the Ariel? Any routes particularly attractive--or unattractive, from the standpoint of safety? Favorite facilities or stop-overs? Thanks!
George,
I'm just moving 376 from Pensacola to Houston this week. Got delayed by the tropical storms and last week's hurricane. Haven't explored much of Texas yet. Mostly farther East (Florida). Where is your boat docked?
well, i don't have advice on cruising, but i do have advice on buying the stuff you need for a cruise.
go to Boat U.S. and sign up for their new boat owner's program. it costs $14, but i well worth it. they give you one month of "wholesale" prices. at least 20% off and sometimes more. it's only for a month, but you can't beat the pricing.
west marine has a new boat owner's program too, but they only offer a flat 10% off most stuff.
www.boatus.com has more info, and i see that there are stores in houston. this means big savings for you.
no i am not an employee of boatus, but i did go to both westmarine and boatus (in that order) and kicked myself for not going to boatus first.
-km#3
What are the cruising limits of our Ariels? Anybody know of lengthy passage-making aboard these boats? I would love to cross the Gulf of Mexico in Houdini--maybe sail to Belize or Antigua or the Bermudas. I can't see any logical reason why this would be ill-advised--am I missing something?
No reason not to...just do a search on the forum for "Zoltan", "Commander 266" or "The Way".
Dave
Let's not forget 'Aussie' Geoff's Ariel UHURU. She was sailed from the States to the great land Down Under by somebody tougher than I. I'd love to read Zoltan's story in full, not piece by piece in the glossies.
George, if you're heading to Belize, go to Ambergris Caye in the first half of Februrary. I'll buy the boat drinks. Tony G
I might add that our own Peter Theis has taken some extended vacation aboard his boat as has Sailor Liz aboard her own Commander.
Voyaging Commanders! OUT-Standing! HOO-Rah!
(oops...sorry.)
Dave
Geroge,
How far have you gone thus far? J-dock has been doing some coastal cruising and is thinking of another longer (week long) cruise. There are a number of us that go -- Hunter 32, Watkins 27, Dufour 27, Pacific Seacraft 30(?). I am sure you have done the Double Bayou and Redfish thing -- definitely NOT cruising. We have been to Freeport and some of the J-dockers have been to Port Aransas. Keep me posted, I am very interested in continuing to outfit Chalupa for more extended coastal cruising and have given thoughts to offshore cruising as well.
Ted
Have made several trips to Galveston--but, of course, that's not a cruise. Reasons for my inquiry: theoretical stability formulae suggest there is no reason for not taking an Ariel to sea, but I wonder: what arrangements have others worked out for heaving-to in storms? How have others provisioned the boat, and what are the limits to loading the boat adequately with water and other supplies without inadvertently introducing problems? What systems have others perfected for deploying anchors or drogues without taking all sorts of risks in going forward in less-than-ideal conditions? What of retrieving those items in less than benign seas? And what of the dinghy problem? How to carry one aboard without introducing safety problems?....My first short cruise goal is for Port O'Connor--just because I know the bay like my own bedroom and enjoy fishing there. But I also want to chip away at these other issues because I want to go to Belize. Among other reasons for going, there is a yard there where I can have my beloved Houdini thoroughly refitted in teak and mahogany at a fraction of state-side costs. You just have to get there and have a month to wait on the yardbirds to finish the job. By the way, keep me posted on your cruise plans--always interested in getting out for a few days with fellow Ariel devotees. Also, just completed the new dodger and bimini and will have the new sail cover in a week. All new Canvas. Also added all new docking lines, all color co-ordinated. Smashing. Stop by and have a look.
We gotta sit down and have an adult beverage and chat about these things. I spend a lot of time equipping Chalupa and asking myself these same questions. Just moved my fresh water tank under the main berth -- added 320 pounds near the center. Need to stabalize my batteries for heavy weather. Lost an anchor recently and now have three aboard. I've hunkered down in 54 mph winds in Galveston Bay and I can tell you that forward on deck in 5 foot seas is not a great place to be! I stripped a trashed out Ariel for hardware for my boat -- this other ariel was a true blue water boat -- the owner had charts from everywhere and triplicate of EVERYTHING -- anchors, air pumps, motors(3), fuel tanks, water tanks, etc.(x3). He had also crushed boat ends and ripped out the rear chain plate! Congrats on the new wardrobe for Houdini -- I'll definitely come look.
Hey Ted and George,
I made the suggestion on these boards about two months ago that we need theTexas fleet to show up at next year's Ariel regatta in San Francisco Bay. And I don't mean by trucking our boats! Seems they didn't get many attendees this year (like ONE!). George, why stop at Belize? Lets keep on going for the big canal and up the West Coast!:D
Guys,
I'm not sure Chalupa and I will be ready next year, but cruising is what I am working toward. I'm adding systems as fast as I can to get her ready to go anywhere. Anytime you guys want crew, give me a holler and we can start chipping away at this cruising thing. And I'll do the same. I'll try to keep you posted when J-dock goes somewhere. The next trip is supposed to be a week long. The last cruise to Freeport was one night at Galveston, another at Freeport, and then we came back all in one day. The boat I was aboard (sadly, not Chalupa) was the only one of the three that made the entire trip. One crew got sea sick at Bollivar (it was heavy seas), one had engine trouble in Freeport, and ours made it there and back without too many difficulties!
Ted
Now, I'm about as seasoned in being on the salt water as any man walking the lower 48, but I have to tell you: that ride north to San Francisco will make a crying girl out of Melville himself. Done that ride about 100 times between '75 and '80 for the US Navy, and when you get north, around the Farallons, it gets rough as the proverbial cob. I would do it in an Ariel (provided every last screw and key was accounted for), but you wouldn't want to come to the task with anything less than a full set to your jaw. There's still time to re-think this thing--otherwise, let's commence and show those white-cap skimmers in SF Bay what Texas sailors can stomach.
A friend of mine's father bought an Ariel when they were new and sailed it offshore several times from New York to the Bahamas and never had any problems. He said the Ariel is as seaworthy a boat as he has ever sailed and will handle more than most skippers want to deal with. Said the rational response of terror when the waves are bigger than the boat goes away once you realize the boat isn't having any problems and almost seems to be having fun. Only limitations are food and water storage, which, if you aren't taking a large crew, isn't really much of a problem. This guy loved the Ariel and was so excited when I bought mine he flew across the country just to sail on one again. On a somewhat less ambitious scale, I just got back from a three week trip up to the north end of Vancouver Island complete with an unexpected (and unforecast) 40 knot gale and 12-15 foot seas in the Straits of Georgia and the boat did wonderfully. These boats were made to go to sea and get you home again.
Tom
Yessss. A most gratifying reply and a useful exposition on the subject at hand. Thank you, sir.
Does anyone think that the commander would perform differnt than the ariel in the ocean? Because of the larger cockpit would it fill with water? Or would putting the lower board in place and the cockpit drains help?
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If you have the original Commander cockpit sans bridgedeck you would want to fix the lower board in place and diminish the cockpit volume perhaps with a water can locker like James Baldwin added to his Triton (see it at www.atomvoyages.com ).
Zoltan's Commander was the later cockpit style with the bridgedeck as is C280.
Much ado has been made about that cockpit volume, but I can only say that at an Alberg rendezvous a few years ago we jammed 26 persons and two meduim sized dogs into/onto the cockpit and Lazarette as well as the side decks outboard the cockpit. It was only the last 1 or 2 bodies that started some water lapping up the cockpit drains.
That's a lot more weight than a cockpit full of water!
Best,
Dave
Here are a couple of my thoughts. As background, my Ariel is equipped pretty much as the standard model.
As a general rule, I shoot for a maximum of three days between ports. The main limitation is ice for the beer and food - and I like fresh food. Thisis independent of how many people I have on board.
A second limitation is on the battery(s), particularly with an autohelm. The solar cells would help, possibly, unless you had a multiple day storm. As for running the engine to recharge them, see my comments about fuel.
I trail my dinghy. It costs me about a half mile an hour under motor power. The big issue is to keep the dinghy covered so that it doesn't fill with water. I don't keep mine covered because the cover blows off in the wind, but I am concerned with what would happen in a super blow and how I empty it (bilge pump is the current method). Cross off any idea of carrying a dinghy on deck. You need the deck space and the freedom of movement.
When I am cruising, I do carry a Winslow six man liferaft on the cabin top just aft of the mast. I also carry a sea anchor (not a drogue). A drogue is a bad idea and my experience is that it is dangerous. It causes the boat to sail on its hull.
The other big limitation is fuel. I carry 18 gallons with a 2 cycle (about 100 miles with a calm sea). Two cans are on each side of the motor, and one is below the steps. On the ocean, this may not be a problem and you may not need the motor because you have all the time in the world - unless your supplies are running low. Also, the winds, I assume, are more consistent than on the Great Lakes. A four cycle would double this range, I am told.
The stability of the Ariel increases dramatically as it gets weighted down. You can see this when the two lead weights are removed from the bilge. The boat becomes relatively tender. When the boot top is under water (loaded with supplies), the boat hardly rocks as you go around the deck.
One other item comes to mind. On open water, hypothermia is a real problem. You need a adequate cabin space you can get into to let you warm up when you are cold.
Hope this helps.
Listening here with great interest on the weight issue.
Can't forget Zoltan's discription of his Commander off an African coast with the cockpit completely filled with jerry cans full of gas and the outboard wide open.
And wasn't it Zoltan also who wrote, do not worry about green water in the cockpit, because in a storm as much sloshes out as sloshes in?
This is of course in total contrast to some posts in the past from skippers who remove a sail bag or coil of line to balance the boat.
A huge amount of weight in materials alone is going into the 338 remodel. It's gratifying to hear what the A/Cs can do with a lot extra weight above the designed waterline.
It's like calories, if you spread a pat of butter over two pieces of bread you've halved the fat. So naturally when adding weight to our boats it's ok if you add it everywhere, more or less equally. Two babes on the bow, two babes on the stern, two on the cabin, two below. like that?
Extra stores (stowes?), water and fuel for distance sailing, along with all the gear. is a big concern for me and 338. More, please!
I will read this thread again
Is it just a case of mind over matter??
Cruising with the Commander is possible??
Iceman :eek:
Blue Penquin is hull #264
Is there some karma happening here :eek:
Iceman
Punch SEARCH for
ZOLTAN, The perils of (just kidding)
Ventura to the Med. in a Commander called, The Way..
Has to be a book by now.
Hey Ebb
I punched Search and keep returning to this thread
What up?
Ice
First/ It's amazing how many people don't understand how important ballast, and where it is placed in a boat, both sail and power. Research ballast in boats and you wont' have as many questions!!! Honest. I know this through my own experience when I first got started in England on the Thames River and went from non tidal to real tides, swells, and ships wakes which are perticularily fun when going against a spring tide. A properly ballasted boat makes all the difference. Of course this is only one aspect of your question. Know your boat inside out and learn if you haven't how to prep and use fiberglass and other products that can be found cheep normaly used for other aplications such as plumbers. In case you are not use your brain and research. The internet is great for sailors/boaters of all types. Don't be sold on products that are designed advertising/package wise for wanna be mariners. The Pearson Ariel is a boat that was designed for some serious water. Unfortunatly it doesn't matter what you go out in. There is as they an inherent risk of voyaging on to open bodies of water. The best boats are the ones that can't sink even if broken up owing to sealable bulkheads, foam, air bags, and what have you. I think what maybe most important to to you is picking your time of year for sailing/ cruising. Depending on where you are on the globe some months are better then others. There is a lot ot consider. If your going alone it's your life. If you are taking other people it is their lives too. Remember a boat is never just a boat and the more you know (it may seem coplicated at first) the safer you are, and also those you take with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
this is what I have been told time and time again,that crossing
the ocean is for big ships and airliners.there is just no way a small boat can do it,get those ludicrous thoughts out of your mind,besides,dont you know the world is flat????what if you fall off the edge of the earth into the unkown zone???? and how are you going to deal with seamonsters like godzilla and the like???now read my post on sailing to hawaii.
Regarding the weight added for stability above, does anyone know what the weight that Alberg designed into the Ariel is? That is, how many pounds of people, food, fuel, ground tackle, blah, blah, blah makes an Ariel float on her proper lines? I know that it's PII is 529, but what weight must you achieve before it starts to sink below her lines?
I too am planning on some long-distance cruising (possibly aboard a lovely Ariel). If anyone knows the stability curve, that would be great as well. I imagine that fully loaded for bluewater cruising, the angle of vanishing stability would increase substantially and make it even more stiff, but I'm no naval architect.
Lastly, as a matter of pure opinion, I think that the Ariel's long-distance reputation simply falls under the shadow of it's big brother: The Triton. But for a couple or, as in my case, single-handing, who needs the extra two feet and maintenance costs?
:-)
fully load your boat with as many people as you think it can safely hold,then take it out and see how it performs.my ariel had lead pigs in the bilge that I removed before sailing off.I once had about 8 or 9 people evenly distributed in the boat and it was kind of sluggish.at the beginning of both my voyages on the ariel and triton Iwas fully loaded with supplies,rations,water,fuel,and there was always water comming up into the sink like a small geyser.but as I continued on these provisions were used,and the boat became lighter.the last 200 miles on the return on the triton from Oahu to Monterey that boat was so much lighter it really danced its way to the coast.motor boats usually have a placard stating how much people and weight,Ive never seen one on any sailboat :)
I couldn't agree more with ElBeethoven that the ariel IS offshore capable ! As to rating on sailboats.....my beneteau was CE offshore rated for 6 people...coastal 8.Thats the only time I've seen "ratings" on a sailboat was with the " CE " certification
Go on a licenced passenger carrying boat and you better see the placard if it carries more than 6 passengers it must be inspected by the USCG .Quote:
Originally Posted by eric
Im sure they are on any type of hired vessel sail or motor,but my experience is limmited to privately owned boats. :cool:my ariel,my triton and my current islander 29 has no placard stating people or weight bearing capacity