Njord Commander Hull 105

Mike Goodwin showed me his Ariel and I guess I got the bug again. I havn't sailed sinse Seascouts (ship 19 Delanco NJ) and my 4 year hitch in the Navy cured me of boats;however, the beauty of the design of Mike's Ariel and some very good memories of sailing on the Delaware has me back at it.
Mike found for me an Pearson Commander(hull 105) in great shape, ready to sail. I have removed the old peeling/powdery bottom paint and repainted it. I have replaced the worn out tiller and handholds on the cabin. I plan on painting the cabin and hull also. The deck areas will get an application of Tufflex which will make them better than new and hide some very minor stress cracks. The hull had no blisters. The decks are in great shape.The boat came with 3 almost new sails and a new spinnecker sail. The winches are original and worn I plan on installing new self-tailing ones- any ideas? I can't wait to sail her.

Congratulations. Sounds like you got a winner there.

One good piece of advice I got is that, when you first buy a boat in sailing condition, you shouldn't do much work on it for a year or so (except safety issues).

Go ahead and sail the hell out of it. See what works and what doesn't. Your plans will change.

Naturally, I didn't follow this advice. I ended up regretting one or two "improvements" and having to re-do others.

Self tailing winches are great. Once you get them, you can't go back. But, if you buy them new, they will probably cost almost as much as you paid for the boat. Don't buy Harkens. You have to remove them from the base to fully service them. A real pain.

Defender offers a "trade in" on old winches if you purchas new Lewmars. Actually, they don't really want your old winches:p I purchased a pair of ST16's at a great "trade in" price. Give 'em a call.

Assuming the ST16's replace the cockpit winches, what size would replace the winch on the mast?

I would go down two sizes from the 16.

If you are getting rid of the #1 winch for the jib halyard, let me know if I can have the winch handle. I need a spare. Thanks.

Any original parts that I decide to replace will be offered to the association membership before the dump :D

I'll be keeping the winches for now...I was just asking for future reference. I do, however, have handles for both size winches. I stumbled across them when cleaning out #66. I also came across a number of other goodies, including wooden shroud rollers (in need of varnish, but otherwise in great condition) and the cap for the vent in the bow.

Now if I could only get that vent off...

Well , Robert has moved #105 closer to home . Went through it with him yesterday .

A regular creampuff.

Wasn't this the boat sold by a guy who bought an Ariel?

Please note that that when repainting your hull not to preclean it with mineral spirits before painting! It will cause the paint to bubble and form fisheyes when drying. It seems that mineral spirits leaves a residue. Use a detergent to clean before painting or better yet denatured alchohol. I found out the hard way and will have to wait for the paint to cure and resand the hull before painting it again. I had hoped to be sailing long before this.My wife Pat is a rep for Seaguard Marine (Sherwin Williams), I should have asked her first before painting.:confused:

Just to keep in touch, Commander 105 renamed Njord, has been pulled and repairs have begun. Found new spreader base and other damaged hardware, the Commander logo was ripped off, I rememebr sending off one to have castings made for the forum group but have not recieved original back yet. Will replace the old portlights with W&C 5" brass portholes, have installed one on the port aft cabin bulkhead. The starboard toerail damage is extensive and there is a deck hole, using pvc pipe to form base for new toerail fiberglassing it in and molding it to look and function as original. The pushpit was damaged almost beyond repair..it was swiped from the yard..does anyone know where they were made or can be bought..is useful for hanging things. The damage to my boat from the hurrcain is hearbreaking...but its my boat and it will sail again..I'm even going to take some sailing lessons with my family crew.:rolleyes:

These photographs were taken in early September, the portholes are 1938 c.Wilcox & Crittenden 5" bronze replacements for the damaged original ones destroyed by Isebel. Half of the toerail has been rebuilt along with the stern quarter. I installed a larger rubrail also. The cabin has been repainted sinse a warm beige. The decks are repaired and will be Navy Gray. Have also added Harken mainsheet traveler with a mahogany traveler track bed that fits the curve in front of the outboard motor hatch. (can't spell lazeratte) Will take new and better photographs soon. The boat needs a new tiller may carve one from single piece of ash...any ideas.

Nice choices. Boat looks Great!

Winter storms bringing any trees down?

Once made a sinuous pattern of a tiller out of doorskin, one I considered ideal, and one I wasn't going to find at the marine 7/11. Just happened that a convenient honey locust came down in one of the first storms that year - befor the branches got whacked went around laying the pattern on limbs until, magically, there it was: the tiller still in the limb. Cut it roughly flat and square section on a band saw to air it out a bit. If it's already got the shape and you haven"t straightened it out too much it won't change that much either as you whittle on it as it dries.

What can beat a grown tiller of Ash or Cherry, Walnut, or any of the nut or fruit woods. Osage Orange. Elm, Black Locust, Etc. Ended up with square to the tiller head, then eight sides ending in points to the long rounded 'S' curved shaft in an exceptional gratifying taper to a carved knob at the end.

Considering the symbolic ramifications here of making your own personal boat handle and looking forward to the times spent grabbing it. why would a sensible skipper accept an imatation lamination?

Besides, don't you need a tiller that in the down position misses the knees there sitting in the cockpit? Is this not so? So that unfair forces are not put on the tiller to tiller head connection like when you steer with the almost straight one? There have been posts on this subject. ;)

That's what I'm talkin 'bout!

She looks great, Robert. Those new ports may not appeal to everyone but I think they look like the real deal. These hulls just look fantastic. I can't wait to sail one! :D You know I'm always surfing the gallery looking for pics.

Couldn't agree with you more, Ebb. These knees are already knobby, scarred and creaking. Didn't Carl plan on turning around or weather helm?

If you guys will just excuse me briefly here while we close the loop. Seem to have no luck posting these ugh's but here goes:

http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...eid=boyles0007

OK, this is an essay by a skipper who has pedestal steering but wanted a backup tiller for his Pearson. Like many P. of our era the ruddershaft comes up out of the deck in the back of the cockpit. His project is knarley but what you might like to see is the shape of the tiller (there is a photo) which starts bending upward as it leaves the tillerhead fitting. What I have in mind. Looks fine for a Commander. Ariel might want an even more radical bend.

The maker of the tiller is also mentioned. Might be an easier way to go. Be interesting to find out what a custom tiller costs these days. Looks to me like a pattern for ours could already exist in a woodworker's shop.

Ebb
Yes, I lost a big tree in our garden it took down our brick wall and we had flooding, replaced floors and things, could have been much worse. Seems like some of my nighbors have caught the sailing bug like I got from Micheal Goodwin when I saw his Ariel. Its a new thing for me, I find that new things keep me going. I have just finished with the staunchens and safety lines so Pat won't fall overboard. Trying to figure out the Jib track and hardware now. The new tiller was broken in half by the 32 Ft sailboat that was on top of my boat...it suffered much worse damage. The original tiller had been repaired two times and has come apart again. West Marine no longer has them, looks like I will be making my own. I plan on adding a small wheel to the cabin for the outboard motor plus simple controls and someway to raise the motor out of the water, I'm too old to lift it in and out all of the time and there is a storage problem. Have recent photographs If I can remember were I put the disc. Next rerigging the mast, replacing broken parts, lighting and wireing. thank goodness the sails are in great condition. New Sphinx acre but need pole.

Tony
I hated to replace the original portlights but they were badly damaged, corroded, couldn't see through them and leaked plus they did not open. I had two old bronze Wilcox & Crittenden 5 inch portholes and found three more on Ebay for $150, one needed new glass cost $85 to replace one inch thick safety glass. They make a world of differance, fresh air, you can see through them, they don't leak and won't corrode. The hard wood rings that they are bolted to were a real problem to cut out(used epay wood that is like teak)had many rejects, even tried to have them made without success. The cabin was already damaged, I had no choice but to make changes, it was real work but worth it, I now hate sanding and fiberglassing. They do make the boat look somewhat differant but its more important that they do the job and are as seaworthy as these old boats seem to be. The hull was painted black because my wife works for Sherwin Williams Seaguard Marine and thats the color she got for me, they make and sell marine coatings, good thing that she did't have hot pink or mustard yellow. :o

What tree, what tree?? Wrong kind huh? Conefir? Yew would be good.

By the way, Tim Lackey wrassels with tiller making in his online book, trying also to get some knee room. Steam bending and epoxy.

If you are going to steam bend (or soaking in boiling water) choose a live American hardwood like white oak, pecan, hickory, elm, etc. The problem with store bought lignum is that it's already cooked in the kiln. So it's kind of tired already. Fresh wood is by far the best.

Making an 'S' curve approachs impossibility even with very thin laminations. Tim does tell us the best trick of all: which is to glue three pieces together first to get the shape. Then keep adding singles so that you don't squeeze the epoxy out, and aren't fighting the shape, and the slipping and sliding. 338 came with a single bowed mahogany delam. In a shop environment you could glue up with resorcinol and literally use carjacks and hammers to clamp it. Still, you'ld have to use veneer-thin wood. After you squared and tapered it you'ld still have to dress a top and bottom on to cover the outs. Lot of work.

A tiller what has straight grain running beginning to end thruout its curves is strong and can be skinnied down like a baseball bat handle. But unlike modern lathed turned bats that seem to break alot on TV there'ld be no short grain in that lithe and limber homegrown timber tiller.

Aluminum, anyone? :eek:

EBB
I was told that the tree was some kind of ornimental, it was soft wood, good for nothing and green. Yew would be great, they used to make bows from yew wood, what does a yew look like, were are they found? I'm looking at ash but have a pretty good piece of mahogany, 4 " thick by about 6' long. I like the tiller instead of a wheel, it's not a racing yacht. Know where there is a 20-24 ft catboat thats needs some work, boy they are impressive , would be perfect for the bay, seems like a very rugged boat, but it's wooden.

Robert - the round protals look fantastic! Very salty looking little boat. You fixed my least favorite part of the Commanders, the little portals! She kind of looks like a Cape Dory Typhoon Senior - very nice! Now you've got me thinking I may start looking at Commanders as well as the Ariels...
Mike

mbd
There is a resturant here in Portsmouth, near the yard where Mike Goodwin keeps his good boat, that has at least 25 old bronze portholes on thier walls as decorations. There must be thousands of bronze portholes in good condition in all sizes that can be had cheaper then replacements for the orginal stock portals. They clean up real good and even if the glass is broken can be replaced for little money. The trick is making the hard wood rings that fit on the outside of the cabin. Placement is no problem, use part of the existing opening for the old portals and carefully fiberglass and fill the entire old portal opening. Carfully re-cutout the exact size of the replacement portholes using as much of the old solid material as possible for strength. I used a thin core material, fiberglass cloth, west system with thier best filler. That was a little tricky but I did a lot of reading and planning before I began.

Some more photographs encluding upgraded main sheet traveler system and damaged mast spreader. Note the bronze bit, I have an arthritic condition in my hands and this helps me tie up faster without too much pain.

Pictures speak for themselves.These were taken after I rowed out and towed my boat back to what was left of the dock. My boat, my watch. Hope/will put out a good strong mooring before the next storm or take the boat to a better situation and ride it out myself.

More photographs. One is of a more or less vertical ouboard motor lift that in all probabiliy would not fit in the lazeratte. I may have to design something and have it manufactured by one of the ship repair yards my wife supplies with paint. Another shows my boat and the one that piled on top of mine. The owner had not secured it before Isabel.This one shows the boy accross the street and I sailing, taken by Mike Goodwin. And another shows a neglected boat at the yard that my wife wants...let her do the work...I just want to sail and have fun.

Robert

Good to see your craft looking really fine again after that awful bashing she took last year. I moved my ariel from Pensacola to Houston two years ago, spent one year on the rehab. Ironic that if she was to have been left in Pensacola, she'd now be on the bottom of Chico Bayo with a few workboats piled on top of her. My mother lives in the hardest hit part of Pensacola along to coast, just to the Southwest of the old downtown, and man, everything was destroyed. Luckily her home is a one story nestled behind some really big homes right on the bay. They lost their roofs, but protected her home--- almost no damage. My dad bought our boat when I was a kid, and it looks like we narrowly dodged a bullet with Hurricane Ivan. Its fate.

Kent
Glad that your family and good boat were safe. Life and living are more important than material things.That being said, I feel it important to :o preserve good quality works such as these boats and other things that were made in America in a time when quality and American workmanship ment something. Your boat is part of your family history and I'm sure that you and others enjoy that very much. I look forward to sailing this spring, I have lived in many Chespeake Bay communitys over the years and look forward to visiting them in my own boat. Good safe sailing.

Here's another gruesome photo that was posted in the past.

From the photos it looks like you had one spreader gone and a lower shroud chainplate just about pulled out of the deck. Backstay chainplate bent like a pretzel. I'm amazed the mast didn't come down. Tough old girl.

Very nice work on the rebuild.

I would of shot that neighbor of yours, accidentally.

Commander Pete
Yeh, he was a real screwball. I'm spashing the boat next weekend minus the stick. Someone has just "borrowed two" of the old turnbuckles; however, the boat came with 3 new unused ones that seem a size smaller but that shouldn't matter too much. Wife asked me to make a wish list for Christmass... push pit, two Harken wenches, pullpit...zodiac tender... Boy that would be a wish list. The back stay is being manufactured a little larger then the old one...I was able to bend the old one back but I didn't trust it...seems like a real important piece of hardware. All of the standing rigging will be replaced size larger then the old. Enjoy good safe sailing, I have enjoyed reading about and seeing photographs of your boat and all of the members, you all have inspired me to keep on. Oh, should anyone need to, and I hope no one ever needs to replace/rebuild thier toerail, I found that pvc pipe is very handy and more than strong enough to use for the center of the toerail. Easy to bend and fiberglass in with West System products. Good as new. :D

Look at that! Those round-eyed port lights are so damned salty I can't even blink. Yesssir! Now I smell styrene and have begun to itch a little. Even the Nearly Perfect Wife agrees. About that tiller--might I suggest a most noble and tough and rot-resistant wood: bois d' arc, aka osage orange. Members of my family have fence posts of the stuff more than 120 years old. Just won't rot. Beautiful stuff, too, when sanded to a glassy surface and varnished. In the sun it will eventually turn a purple-black. Bright yellow to start.
Good job, sir.
Houdini. Ariel #407

Pvc pipe in the toe rail for rebuilding it a really great idea!

Inspection of the masthead sheave (pully-wheel-thing inside the top of the mast) shows that it is somewhat worn. Though it still seems to be mechanicaly sound I would like to replace it along with the spreaders and spreader bases that i now have parts for. Dwyer aluminum mast company has aluminun replacements (were I purchased two spreaders thanks to Commanderpete). Does anyone have any experience replacing the sheave, or any suggestions? :confused:

Funny enough, I looked into this recently. I have my mast down, and I removed the bolt that holds the upper stay tangs on. That bolt also holds the masthead sheave (but I wasn't thinking about that).

Anyway, a few weeks later I came back and found that the masthead sheave had disappeared. I figured it fell down the mast. After cursing for a while, I started thinking about a replacement/ upgrade. I didn't see any large sheaves at Dwyer (did you see any?) I found some at Harken

http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.u...&409Z56LC5HLRU

look under "Big Boat sheaves" and "high load sheaves"

I don't even think they have the right size, and the prices were outrageous. I think our sheave is 6 1/2", I forget.

So, I decided to fish the old sheave out of the mast. Actually, it turned out the old one had fallen out of the mast and onto the ground and rolled away.

I pulled out the aluminum cheeks that are on each side of the sheave and I'm cleaning them up a bit. The sheave should roll more smoothly. Otherwise my phenolic sheave is in good shape and I'm going to re-use it.

How bad is yours?

There's a little bit on page 21 of the Manual about installing a bronze bearing. Still thinking about that.

My sheave is somewhat worn but its also original which means that its 40 years old. As a kid my first job was in a rope mill (Wall Rope) and there were similar sheaves on some of the machinery which needed replacing every so often. Dwyer Aluninum Mast has them, click on hardware at the top of the web page;however, none of them are the right size though cheaper than Harken, Mike Goodwin says the original sheave in my mast should be alright.Mike and I went to a used boat parts auction last week, Mike said that there were some sheaves there the right size but we didn't wait for that lot to be auctioned off it would have been hours. I hate not replacing it but "she who must be obeyed" wants the boat back in the water so she can fish. The big Commander cockpit has plenty of room for a little fishing. Also replacing the damaged back stay tang with one that is thicker and a little longer so I can add an extra bolt as you know mine was completely bent over and had some hairline cracks. :o

The masthead sheave on 338 is 6.50"d x 1/2", grooved for wire. It has been frozen in the box. Someone fabricated a nice s.s. tang over the aft side of the dead sheave box for a halyard block.

If you wanted to restore the original external halyard over the sheave why not cut a circle of 1/2" delrin and find someone with a lathe to pare in a groove? Any ideas on this?

Any thoughts on a smaller offset sheave or two or three that would go internal? Someone is trying to persuade me to do this.

That's what I got--6 1/2" by 1/2", rope groove.

You should be able to get that sheave working ebb. You just jiggle those aluminum cheek plates out of the mast.

I scrubbed everything up and sanded off the corrosion on the cheeks where the sheave rides against them. I'll spray everything with McLube.

If you wanted to get two sheaves up there you would have to widen the slot in the mast.

If you wanted to use smaller diameter sheaves then the line might chafe on the bottom of the slot where the line enters.

Going internal would just complicate matters.

I did run across this guy who'll make you any size sheave you want

http://www.zephyrwerks.com/pricing.asp

Wow, the COSTS!
Don't even know if your guy goes up to 6 1/2" - 82 bucks for a 6". Another 1/2" and it'll skyrocket.
Extra for UV Delrin, Hell, HAS to be UVed up there.

With a router and appropriate bits, and given the large diameter of our sheave, it would be a piece of delrin to make one! Wouldn't be science, but close enough.

This someone one I mention cannot be questioned. He's a national treasure. I think the mast has enough in it with the electrics, and pointy fasteners. And there is a strong arguement for foaming at least the top of the mast as a safety measure. If you get flattened the mast could fill.

Cruisers, maybe everybody except racers, also like the ability to visually check the halyards and ease of replacement. Maybe my authoritive friend was just floating a comment to see what reaction he would get. Certain tricksters around here do it all the time! :D

Don't try to goad me into taking on yet another project this year ebb.

All of my projects result in at least one crazy snafu.

That might amuse you guys, but its very painful for me.

like probably said already:
it's not the snafu itself.
it's how you go from the snafu to your next snafu! :o

Here are some recent photographs of my Commander #105 (Sparkey) renamed Njord, that was damaged in hurricain Isebel. I am now sailing, it was worth the effort, thanks to all of you with your kind advise and insights. :)

Nice mooring bitt. Did that come with the boat?

No, I found the old bronze bit on good ol' Ebay, I have an arthritic condition in one hand, and the bit makes it easier to tie up. It is solid bronze, about 100 years old, so I'm told. I also found three Wilcox and Crittonden 5" portholes, I had two already, my stock portlights were dameged in Isebel and needed to be replaced, they open and let in air and are very water tight. Note the thicker stainless steel back stay chainplate, the old one was bent over and cracked. :(

Robert, I said this before when you posted another picture, but those round portals look fantastic! And your boat looks even better in the water too! :D

Have you redone the interior at all? Because, you know we'd all love to see some pictures of that too...

Photo #126 shows what appears to be an upgraded stern chainplate. And, an indication of some past forward movement. High tension on the backstay or the Gene Roberts effect (hitting something while moving causing the mast to spring).

Bill, during Isebel the docks came apart in the wind and tidal surge a 35 ft. sailboat that had broke loose road up the backstay and crushed the pushpit, also it bent over the old chainplate. I had this one made of thicker 1/4" stainless with a few extra bolt holes, ugly but stronger. The mast did not distort,though I lost one spreader and spreader base, if it had I don't think that I would have kept the boat. I replaced the toe rail in places, one of the staunchens punched through the deck and the stainless rubrail rolled up on the starboard side among many other damages that has be repaired. My boat, my neglect to find a safe place to ride it out, it will not happen again. I'm looking into putting out a mooring this spring for storms and tidal surges.

mbd, I will post some photographs of the interior soon, I need to paint some things and finish some wood work that I started. The interior will be simple, I don't have a sink or galley. I have started some wood working projects that need to be finished. It dosn't appear that this boat ever had a water tank. The v birth and side bunks/seats are new, they were custom made from heavy foam and materials that were left over from some Navy admiral's yacht that a friend of my wife's had in her shop.

Robert - she does look nice! Very shippy. :)

mbd.Here is a photo of one of the portholes from the inside and the porthole on the portside rear of the cabintrunk from the outside. It is real nice to have cross cabin ventilation. I can now do some of the work that I had planned on doing to the interior, ventilation helps when painting. Went out by myself for the first time, used only the main sail, good strong winds from the west, checked and tuned the rigging, what fun, except for tying up... out going tide, chop and wind. Hope the next time I step a mast it is many years from now. :eek:

Last summer I single handed my ol" Commander most of the time (which wasn't very often) as I will this comming summer. I want to make sail handling as simple as possible and sail a lot more.I think that the Hoyt Jib Boom could make sailing single handed for me more easy and in our light summer winds more efficient. I have a working jib that is in good shape and shouldn't need much if any adjustment. I don't plan on changing to a furler at this time. I will be pulling my boat to clean and repaint the bottom in the next month or so and that would be a good time to install the jib boom. Any thoughts from you old salts would be helpful as I have been very much taken in by the Hoyt Jib Boom vids on the Alerion web site. By the way the Alerion 38 is very impressive and so is the price... for only $315,000 you can sail one home today. I believe that the lines of our Commanders are just as beautiful as the Alerions. :confused:

Robert:

I have a Freedom 30, which has a self-tacking jib but not the Hoyt jib boom which had not been invented when my boat was built. The Hoyt jib boom is a lovely piece of equipment, but is not inexpensive, even if you install it yourself. The self-tacking system on my boat involves a few blocks, a much lower cost option. However, the biggest problem with either my system or the Hoyt jib boom is that it limits you to a fairly small jib. There aren't too many times a year on the Chespaeake when I don't wish that I had a somewhat larger jib.

Al Lorman
Former Commander owner

Al:

do you have a drawing or a picture of your self tacking system?

Richard Pearson

Al, I know what you mean about our Chespeake summers, hot, humid and hazy with less moving air than doing boot camp in the summer and the only breeze you got was when a company marched past you... and you were thankful for that. I will be keeping my clinched on sails for now. I have a very good Genoa and an almost new spinnaker with a pole. My boat is rigged for a spinnaker. I believe that with the jib boom in place I should be able to set the genoa (130%) or the spinnaker. If the jib boom works as well as Mr. Hoyt says and everything that I have read; I will then install a jib furler with the smaller working jib. I can buy the Hoyt jib boom for my Commander for about $900 plus shipping. Placement is 10% of the "j" length from the bow stem. My idea is one day to be able to handle all of the sails single handed from the cock pit. I would really like to sail the Alerion 38 (sail drive)...but $315,000 base price for a day sailer when I am very happy with my ol' Commander dosn't make sense.

Richard:

I've never posted photos on this forum, so I'm not at all sure how to do it. In any event, the description is fairly simple. Please note, though, that the Freedom 30 has a CamberSpar inserted into a sleeve in the jib which helps maintain sail shape. The self-tacking part, though, could be replicated without the CamberSpar.

Instead of jib sheets attached to the clew of the jib, a single jib sheet deadends at a padeye on the port side of the cabin top. It then goes up through a block attached to the clew of the jib and down to a turning block on the starboard side of the cabin top, and then back to the cockpit. When you tack, the jib moves to the appropriate side of the mast on the block attached to the jib sheet. Tighten the sheet and the jib is close hauled; let it out and you are reaching. As noted, it probably won't work as well without the CamberSpar to maintain sail shape, but it would still work. If I were doing it from scratch, I would use the Hoyt jib boom as well.

Al

I just got back from Lowe's hardware store. Looking around the plumming section, this may seem crazy, I belive that one could fabricate their own jib boom from stock (large) pvc pipe without much trouble. I don't think that there would be a weight or strength problem. The other hardware needed would be off the shelf marine. Except for the right angle of the boom to the base , it would not look all that bad.:rolleyes:

That's the spirit we like around here.

I have bent 1" PVC pipe with a heat gun, but had trouble forming a nice curve. It wanted to bend at a right angle.

I think the real advantage of a jib boom would be having the jib poled out when you're running downwind. Not sure if its really worth the effort though.

You would also have to remove the bow pulpit.

Commanderpete: Yes the bow pulpit would have to go, but I have wanted to clean up the deck...remove the lifelines. The pushpit has already been removed because of damage...Mike Goodwin has it somewhere.I was looking at the 2" pvc pipe and fittings...it seems that everything that would be needed to put together a jib boom is stock items and cheap. When no one was looking I tried to bend a 6ft section with an elbow..should be more then strong enough and the elbow would be the right angle. There is even some stock fitting (other sizes)that with little modification could be attached to the deck as a base with a below deck secured section. The boom itself would be cut to a custom length for the Commander and it's jib instead of the Hoyt stock lenth. From info on the Hoyt-Alerion web site there should be a gain in power on most points of sailing comparable to sailing with the genoa. The Commander should sail something like the Alerion 28 and be self tacking. A little slower. Except for our long deep keel instead of the Alerion's fin keel our hull shape is excellent... should work. I don't plan on crossing the Atlantic anytime soon or racing, so I may give it a shot.:rolleyes:

Gonna be pretty scary up there on the foredeck hoisting and dousing the sail. Once you get the foot attached that pipe will be bouncing around.

I'm sure somebody has tried to make their own. Have you googled around?

You know how sailors are. Somebody will post a question:

"I need a new mast"

Somebody else will respond:

"Aw, just go out in the forest and find a straight tree. That's what I did. It was EASY"

Ok...
I am in the process of re-assembling my mast. The next step is to intall the main halyard sheave and the plates that go with it.

I took the uppermost bolt out. This bolt goes through the plates and also acts as the shaft for the main halyard sheave. Upon taking the bolt out, the sheave fell out right away.

The plates stayed in, and were later removed by one of the guys helping me...

Here is the glitch; - Now I can't recall how these went together...
Below are some pictures that prompt these questions...
The first is of the PORT side of my mast BEFORE disasembly and shows the jib halyard (Blue) on its block, attached to the jib bracket. NOTE the holes below (to the right of the picture) just below the slot for the plates/sheave.

The third picture is of the STARBOARD side of my mast prior to disasembly, and it shows ONE lonely screw... I have no idea what this was there for... I suspect it served no purpose, but I am not sure...

The second picture shows all the holes in this area as they are today.

Do any of you guys recall if they are only held in place by the bolt and the bracket for the jib halyard block?, or are they also supported by something else related to the screw in question?
Thanks!

On the mystery holes---somebody might have installed a halyard restrainer up there at one point, for use with a roller furler.

Just the big bolt holds the sheave/plates.

Did you re-paint the mast? (middle pic) Looks spiffy

Thanks commanderpete. I feel better about proceeding... - I should plug those holes...

I did re-paint the mast. - Went down to Bare Aluminum... Interlux Perfection followed. (Following you very lead, if I remember correctly... )

More picts and details on the "Mephisto Cat's" (C-155) gallery page soon.

And thanks to everyone who posts on this board and Bill who keeps the board neat & tidy... This board is indeed a great resource. The bulk of the work I've undertaken has been only following and learning from other's posts on this board.

We did talk briefly on the thread 'Spinaker question' about this original equipment sheeve that on Little Gull is about to be taken apart.

This 6" sheeve sits in the middle of the mast in a rather too large hole.
Wouldn't mind closing it up.*
I see on some other posts masts that have a curved stainless plate that holds the block that hoisted the main on 338. The plate is positioned at the very top of the mast and kind of hangs a bit over the top of the huge slot the old frozen sheeve occupies (for but a short time left.)

OK, I can see that this plate can do the job. But I'm not happy with it either. It is fabricated of the same 3/32" plate the tangs are made from, It shows no wear and looks like it is installed properly as to corrosion showing, but it only holds the one block. I'd like a second halyard block up there - even a third.

The sheeve bolt on the sides of the mast has caused some corrosion that will have to be taken care of. When I take the sheeve out, I'll try closing the holes off with Durofix solder.
But the slots are a different matter. I'm thinking plates could be positioned over the slot on the front and back to close it off.

How does one normally rig extra main halyard blocks without their fouling? Figure the close-off/repair plate is an opportunity to create an ideal fitting to mount back-up halyard blocks AND the main halyard block. What blocks would be used?

Anybody have any ideas???
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________
One reason to close off the sheeve is to keep sweet water out. If mast wires go through the deck under the mast as they did on 338, the holes could cause balsa rot under the mast - as it did on 338.

We have solved that problem but I'm persuaded by L&L Pardey's advice that the mast must be closed off so that it does not fill with water and turn a knockdown into a disaster by keeping the boat on its side.

I would like to solve that by having no open holes in the mast. Except for the drain at the foot.

Been removing all hardware except main track from 338's mast.

I've noticed on pictures of other Ariel masts on this Forum that at least two have had a special curved tang fitting added to the top of the mast over the sheave to hang the jib halyard block.

Found EXTENSIVE CORROSION behind this fitting.
The aluminum has been eaten away from the sheave-box hole to the top of the mast!!!
A hard white filler* was used to pack the difference in radius between tang and mast. It is here the aluminum has been eaten away - a 3" X 3" area between the slot and the end of the spar. The slot is a 3/4" X 7" hole (repeated on the opposite side) now extending to the top.

While none of the varieties of stainless steel screws used to fasten cleats, eyes, blocks to the mast show any real galvanic corrosion, in this case the area holding the tang screws has been completely compromised.
Mild white corrosion sometimes but not always shows up between a fitting and the mast. Nothing seems to have happened IN the threaded or drilled holes (stainless steel to aluminum contact - no obvious tef-gel remnants) - only on the interfacing areas. Behind a small block used as a cheek block on a section of the extruded track flat a filler was used to stabilize it. Pit corrosion on the flat occurred here also.

The aluminum pole style spreader mounts were also mounted with goop to created a curved interface with the mast. This stuff is a hard brittle black substance that rings an old dim bell. No corrosion whatsoever - in fact where the stuff skipped the original smooth anodized surface is perfectly preserved.

Noticed that the mast track was applied over what looks like plastic electic tape, there being a piece of it still hooked into the sheave hole. No corrosion,
And because all other threaded holes turn out to be OK, I'm gonna assume the track is good to go.....another 40 years!


Urge anyone who has this halyard refit to immediately check it.
This tang must be original as it is so prevalent on our masts.
There is no provision for a jib halyard block on the mast crane.



DO NOT USE THIS FITTING TO GET UP YOUR MAST WITH A BOSUN'S CHAIR OR WEB CLIMBER.

Until you are sure it's OK. What looks like four #10 coarse thread machine screws attached this fitting. Mortified to think I could have attempted to climb the mast. Realize there is NO failsafe with this type of fitting - if it comes off so does everything attached to it. Think I'll make sure to renovate the big mast sheave!
Lucky to be lazy.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________
* Edit, years later (2012). I would now, having been educated by renovating the A338 mast - record found on other threads in this Forum -
that the "hard filler" was actually packed hard poultice corrosion. Hadn't seen anything like it at the time, or since!
Pretty obvious that the fitting had never been removed since the time that Pearson, OBVIOUSLY the responsible party, planted that really
badly designed halyard tang over the sheave box, carelessly mounting it so that the stainless screws would corrode the aluminum spar.
Casual inspections did not pickup on the danger lurking behind the plate.

That's a noteworthy alert.

A couple of times a year I stop and look at the mast trying to figure when is a good time to begin addressing that can o' worms. Now there is a legitimate reason to start poking around at the fittings and such.

Thanks, Ebb. You may have just cost us a bunch, but, you may have saved everything!

Would anybody have any thoughts on redoing the masthead sheave?

There are a number of alternatives. Or very few as you see it.

The phenolic cotton Tufnol sheave from 338's 1966 mast is 6.5" D.
It is 1/32" less than 1/2" wide. (12mm?)
It has a wire groove for 3/16" max.
The groove bottom diameter is 6 1/16".
The top plus 6 feet of the mast shows wear from the long-gone wire.

There is no way that the sheave can be made over for rope (Let's call it rope for clarity here.) unless you want to go with a substantially smaller diameter than 7/16" or 1/2" rope. For hand use I require these larger diameters and I believe most people do.
There may be a quick fix in finding an O-ring to fill most of the wire groove. But the 5/16" rope that might fit would not be supported well.

I don't feel that the inside groove diameter for running wire was sufficiently wide enough.
The Delrin sheave sizing pages on www.zephyrwerks.com
allows a 5/8" wide sheave for 1/2" rope.
Depth of groove from 1/3" to 1/2". Let's say 1/2" depth.
That's a 7" grooved disk. I'd want 1/4" overhang in and 1/4" overhang out.
Adding it up: 6 1/2" diameter groove
plus 1/2" sides equals 7 1/2" sheave. I really think that groove should cup the loaded halyard best it can. It spends important time under high load in one spot,
A Harken 7" sheave will cost $750
RigRite has 7" and 8" aluminum and Micarta sheaves with oilite bronze bearings but wrong pin diameters. Didn't check the wallet waster.

Looking at Ed's Zephyrwerks Pricing Sheet as a starter: It's $120 for a 7" to 8" sheave and it comes with an oilfilled bronze sleeve bearing. Have to talk with him about the pin.

Pin material can be 316 s.s. 655 bronze or titanium. I'd argue for bronze because of the bearing. Bronze also doesn't have lack of oxygen problems that s.s has. Admittedly 316 has the best rep. of available stainless.
I'm not happy with what I found used for a pin on the mast. It was an ordinary s.s. bolt that had the threads riding in the mast hole on one side.
That side also had a tang riding on the threads. It worked... but it really irked. Smooth, sized-with-the-bronze-bearing pin is the way to go.
I'm convinced that a 1/2" rod/pin with threaded ends and castellated nuts plus cotter-pins be the most secure up there. IS THIS OVERKILL ?


Main purpose of the square aluminum pieces on either side of the sheave is to support the sheave. The sheave runs on a 1/2" hole. It's support comes from friction bearing on the aluminum sides that lines the slot. Having them easily removable cuts down on maintenance. The squares are held in place by the sheave pin. 338's are badly corroded. Not a marine grade material. The laminate sheave shows little wear on the sides. But one side is new looking, the other scuffed.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++

OK. How would you ladies and gentlemen proceed on this? Would you go with a new Delrin sheave and bushing. Will you go with a bronze or stainless pin or bolt? Would go with the same side pieces in the sheave slot?
Or as I suggested elsewhere make an actual box for the sheave?

Although the holes in the mast are none the worse for wear from decades of galvanic potential, they do look old (tired?) and there is that bit of rash on the wall under the tangs. Still, you vill izolate the pin from the mast it passes through.
I've looked into the possibility of bushing the pin with a plastic isolator. PEEK (polyetheretherketone) is used for sleevebearings on rotating arbors. Very hard tough stuff, and available from McMCarr. But maybe not so good - as the loads on our pin are static from the halyard on the sheave and the shrouds on the tangs pulling down.

Anybody think this is a possible idea?
There's an opportunity to shorten the mast with a raised maststep. Cutting a bit off the top of the mast would lower the sheave hole into fresher aluminum. Good thing imco. Of course the place of everything else on the mast would also move up. As the track. A regular 1/2" inch through hole could be done what? maybe 1" lower? OR the bushed holes could be enlarged in the present location. Whot you say?

What about adding TWO NEW GIANT DELRIN SHEAVES???? The slot would become at least 1 1/2" wide. That's a big hole. AH... but TWO main halyards! Can the top take it? Could it be reinforced. (I have to band with added aluminum, or do something with the nasty corrosion on top of the slot.) The top fitting, which insets the tube, is held on with machine screws and surely adds some integrity to all the busy-ness of this split-top mast.


The old Tufnol sheave shows no obvious deterioration from four decades in the sky.
Micarta and Garolite are available versions of the material in phenolic, melamine and epoxy forms.. Can't find clear enough information, from McMCarr for one, on what high pressure laminate it is that has stayed fresh as a daisy all these many years of Ariel history. I cannot make out which of a number of materials a substitute would be. I'm pretty sure the old Tufnol sheave is a phenolic linen or cotton laminate (LE) but McMCarr does not have a exterior rated LE Garolite. So it goes. Delrin may be a good way out, though it is a lot heavier.
Thanks.

I found that my mast did have a few markings either from a fitting on the wire, or from the wire itself. However, this was minimal and posed no issues. Once the mast was painted, this was well hidden by the shiny paint... This sort of wear could easily have been prevented by proper stowage of lines while at the dock.

I had a suspicious look at the sheave, pin, and plate arrangement while I was renewing my mast. In the end I decided that this is a pretty simple & practical solution - considering C-155 purpose of coastal cruising and hopefully SF Bay soon... I am amazed at the great condition that the sheave is in... It seemed almost new! I think that this material is most affected by the sun, as some of the original blocks made from that same material were not nearly as nice looking, although, apparently in decent shape... These were replaced.

My biggest concern with regard to the mast was the lack of compression struts (pipes) for the two thru-bolts that hold the spreader brackets and the lower shrouds.
(-I will post my solution to this issue in the 'Mephisto Cat's" gallery page shortly)

I decided to leave the sheave alone as i think it is adequate for the 3/8" line I'm using for the halyards. If you want to go with 1/2, then you may have to modify as you describe. You may resolve the wear issue by trimming you halyard to shift the area where the line meets the sheave.

Quote:

---

I'm convinced that a 1/2" rod/pin with threaded ends and castellated nuts plus cotter-pins be the most secure up there. IS THIS OVERKILL ?

---

I also considered this arrangement. I agree with you thought of the pin & nuts, but considering the function in this case, the bolt works just fine. I ended-up buying a 6" or 6.5" bolt and trimmed off the excess treaded portion...

I changed nothing more since the current set-up worked fine and suffered no ill effects for 40 years+

I have to say that I did find that the same areas you indicate had a bit of corrosion, but I definitely did not find the degree of corrosion that you describe. No goop, or other suspicious substances...

I did find the plastic isolating strip behind the mast track. This did a brilliant job in protecting the Aluminum, so I followed the thought and replaced it with two layers of UV resistant sticky vinyl material on top of the thick paint and then I installed the track with SS Rivets with a generous helping of lanocote to ensure these were as inert as possible. A random few of the original ALUMINUM rivets were badly corroded, but they held well for the length of time that they were employed against the SS track. Again, some pictures and specs of this work will be posted in my Commander's pic thread.

I ended-up painting my sheave plates to keep them nice & smooth...

How to proceed?
It depends on your intent for the boat. The dual sheaves in a box would be the most innovative convenient & durable. (The box may be necessary in this case to strenthen the mast top...) but again, this is a major mod that implies that there is a differrent intent in mind. (I think you must be headed for a world cruise!)
There may be a used mast available which is in better condition if the corrosion is as severe to impact it's integrity...

I do not think that the load on the holes in the mast is an issue at all. I found no deformation at all in mine. This is from 40 years of sailing. I am relying on the paint and some dielectric to prevent corrosion. I would stick with SS for the material for the bolt /pin.

Cheers!

A~

Rico,
THANKS for taking this forward.
Haven't time just now to do justice for your ideas and obs.

I will pursue the double sheave box idea with a 'doorskin' mockup.
Thanks for the 'blessing'!
Nothing like a full scale 3D model to let you know if something is feasible. -or not.
I'm not sure how easy thin sheets of aluminum (6061) can be bent like guage steel can. But if it can then the box can be fixed with screws and be removable - something that down the line would be useful. A wide box would really constrict the top of the mast. Any bearing plates could be upgraded to a 'box' form by simply bending a right angle flange into the bottom and top of the plates. That certainly would close up the hole in the inside of the mast. The box could be tabbed to the out side of the mast with small machine screws. Not so simple, if I recall, AL has to be bent with a radius to avoid stressing the metal. Also across the grain and experiencial stuff like that.

The top internal sheave system doesn't really need an internal anti-compression tube. It could be designed in but the bolt or pin would have to be enclosed in a tube. I wouldn't use stainless in that upgrade. And there are other design issues like the sheave bushing. Zero wobble has to be acheived for the wide wheel.

The spreaders is a big issue imco. There should be a tubes in both bolts. But were not put in. It seems like a pretty simple upgrade until you realize you are encapsulating the bolts. One of the spreader socket bolts on 338 was obviously 304 and rusty. The other I assume was a 316 with no rust. Both nuts came off without fuss.
655 is the obvious first choice for tube encased bolts, or titanium. Don't know. Also we have an ongoing relationship with stainless and aluminum. We know how pretty much to isolate these guys. Adding bronze to the mix might get complicated. Like a menage a trois. Don't know, but how many fools do you know that are putting bronze bolts in their masts?

I'M LISTENING TO 40 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE!

I'm extremely impressed you removed and rebedded the track. I'm going to take the Hitachi to a few of those screws and see what happens. The tag end of tape that was still tucked into the sheave slot the guy used to hold the tape as he unwound it.... is very brittle. Probably should be done. sigh
:cool:

I'm curious, What is so detrimental about using the rope/wire halyard? Also, the rope/wire when lowered to hoist main, doesn't the rope ride in the sheave? If this halyard is not the primary main halyard,but just a spare why not run a 1/4 " line and keep the rope/ wire stored below deck and just used when necessary. It seems this would be a better alternative to a $$$$$ sheave replacement. Some of the working loads on modern 3/8ths line seems plenty strong if you went that route.But then what do I know ?? I'm just a 55 yr. old kid!! As a note, on A-259 the main sail track is secured with phillips headed SS screws. Carry on!

Hi Carl,
Can you imagine if the sail track was put on with slotted head screws....? Wholly Jumping Jehosephat - thank you, Phillip.

I don't know why the wire to rope halyard became unfashionable. But it did. And it caused one crazed all-rope-halyard DFO to attach that stupid stainless halyard tang with 4 miserable screws that was ready to fall off with a chunk of the mast when I actually looked at it. I really went sailing with it like that!

If you are using the sheave for what it was intended, the wire holds the load in the groove with the sail up, Correct? I'd say the wire was very happy in that sheave at that time. There's no real load when the sail is being lowered. Wouldn't matter what the rope is doing in the sheave as long as it is being guided over and not hanging up like with the splice having to pass through the top. But the sheave is a wire sheave and would be OK only for 3/16" rope, nothing larger.

To me having all fat braid is a luxury for my hands. And not having a rope to wire splice is one thing less to go wrong. 3/8" will work of course but take a look sometime and you'll probably see the line gets distorted and is not supported. Does it show any wear where it rests on the sheave with the sail up? Or do you always use the wire tail? Interesting you have that choice.

But I understand not going through the change, and keeping the original set-up happening. I do. The mast in my case needs metal work done on it... so other possibilities reared their expensive little heads.

If you're thinking to convert the existing sheave to all 3/8" line, I would go to McMCarr and get a pack of 10 1/8" Buna-N 6" double-seal O-rings(they are sort of square) for $9 and try one in the groove as a filler. 3/16" square O-ring is too much rubber, and the smaller one might actually cup when stretched in the sheave groove and fill in the deep part making 3/8" line more happy. Imco. It's an idea.


Besides these what-ifs and willy-nillys bring you sober, sensible, sailing skippers to the Forum to keep us slackers straight.
And it's whole bunch more fun than sitting in the corner over there mumbling in my beer.

Ebb
There have been so many modifications done to my Ariel I sometimes don't have a clue what came from the factory and what came from WM. One of the main reasons I enjoy the photos.I also own a Pearson Electra that has been in storage since 1987. This little boat has no owner mods. from what I can tell. This boat has the rope/wire halyards and the halyard uses the 3/8 line for the main and jib. The mast sheave appears to have the same groove size as the Ariel only on a smaller sheave (smaller diameter mast) Even after 20 years of no use this sheave rotates freely
My Ariel mast problems are at the base, 1 foot sawed off, the top appears to be in very good shape.
Some thing for you to consider if fabing a mast sheave box is, most tight bends are done with soft aluminum and then are heat treated for hardness after being bent and shaped. I have friends in the aviation repair industry who taught me the process. I can get you the alloy numbers if you need them and also the temperatures you need for the hardness you desire. "G'day mate"

Carl,
I still think you could tabernackle that spar.
Build a peg leg for it.
It doesn't HAVE to lower or raise, just make the mast usable.

You know, hopefully you still have the original casting for the mast foot.
If you don't, what the hell: 'cast' a temporary one out of fiberglass.
You got the form right there.
Put it on a pedestal. Make it so it can be changed out later -
by you or the next.... care-taker!:D

Ebb,
I had convinced myself to weld the mast back together and simply have it stepped at the boatyard every year. After joining this site and reading comments form several members I'm now convinced that my thinking was flawed and costly. Your comments about a cruiser being able to raise and lower their own spar has changed my mind. Comm. Pete photos of his mast raising with a minimum of hardware cemented the idea.
My thinking now is to anchor the 1 foot stub to the deck (cabin roof) and build a tabernacle system to raise the mast from the forward position when on the water or the hard and from the rearward position if launching from the trailer.
I do have the mast heel.
What I have to do now is find the lazyist person I know, to come up with the easiest way to do this..... LOL.

Carl,
Your challenge may be how to fulcrum the upper shrouds with a tall tabernackle.
With a tall tabernackle you'll be able, if you want, to lower/raise aftward.

As to the materials...what the hell do aye know....you can get 6061T6* plate from OnlineMetals or probably cheaper from McMasterCarr in about the quantity you want. 1/2 plate, say, that you can inset into each mast section end and screw into place with machine screws. Might even get fancy and do it right with a nice rebate. Like the original casting has.
*T6 is the hardness rating. I don't think that I should mess with the annealing on thin sheet (for the sheave box, say). Like how to harden it back again after bending?

I have a Buzz Ballenger stainless tabernackle for my proposed masting. Calling it a tabernackle is a stretch because it is a merely plate with the usual angled up sides with holes for turning blocks - AND a couple uprights forming a 'U' for the mast to sit between - with slots in each - welded on to the plate. No moving parts.
This is a 'Santa Cruz' tabernackle. For forward lowering the front 1/3 (for our coach-roofed boats) of the mast foot is rounded with a pin put through the mast that will follow the slot as the mast is moved. It's a totally simple right-on system with two moving parts: the bolt and the mast. Nothing moves or is hinged so far as the tabernackle itself is concerned.

That foot support in the mast bottom seems to be a problem for me at the moment because it is not a simple flat plate. I don't think I'm willing to go through a casting procedure. But I think the piece should be cut from a chunk of aluminum. Don't see how the rabbet can be done - at the moment - it ought to be done that way and without welding. I'll see what Mike and the shop might be able to do here on the estate.

If you pegged the one foot piece to a solid fabricated aluminum base on deck, then you might use this modest rounded foot idea to raise and lower at the one foot height. The reason the compromise rounded foot is used is that a hinge at the forward or aft edge of the mast-foot raises the mast too much for control because you have to loosen the uppers to get over the hump. This method allows lowering without loosening (I believe) and gives the operation a 'feel'. You are coming off a flat zone that the mast bears on, using the weight of the mast going over the mild hump or round and keeping full side control with fairly taut shrouds. Sure like to see it in action.

I brought a complicated model of a full half rounded tabernackle for Buzz to see and hopefully bless. He avoided any commentary (thankfully) and I believe he raised his eyes skyward. But he did point out that from a practical standpoint the lowering and raising would be too smooth and have no 'feel'. Not his words. But that is the idea. When upright the santa-cruz mast has its foot and is stable and supported. When lowering the mast goes trough its slight hump and is eased by the small rocker of its toe.

I'm convinced. Sure like to see it in action!

Whether this hinge idea can be adapted to a mast section is a definite challenge. There are all kind s of forces that seem to make it impossible.
If you had the santacruz gizmo at the one foot level you could be home-free.
Using the cutoff may be plain impractical. But designing a pedestal that looks right is an even bigger challenge. Aesthetics raises its medusa head.

Splicing this mast section back onto itself may just be a matter of an internal collar. Or an internal collar combined with an external one. This action is all taking place conveniently below the sail track.

Tabernackle pictures from sailing photos on webshots (google)
sports.webshots.com/photo2332182000100122919gqINRS
Good luck on this coming up. Shows a typical tall euro canal type tabernackle that might jog into a good idea.



Hey you guys , help this man out!

The easiest way to proceed is to renovate the sheave and side plates.
Rico painted the side plates. Use the same system as for the mast.
An oilite bushing** could be added and some polyethylene sheet washers.
But the sheave itself seems good for another 40 year.
There probably would be no dimensional changes necessary when you go with 3/8" halyard and the slightly undersized 1/2" wide Tufnol sheave.
Skippers who use line alone in the combo sheave that has a deep groove for wire rope say that the profile does not harm their line.
Gotta polish up and wax the scabacious aluminum plates befor reassembling. C'pete's post #6.

There may be a scooch more room after sanding and smoothing the old plates to put in 1/32" 6"D washers of HDPE on either side of the sheave. Imco that would insure the sheave keep turning over time - but becomes a maintenance issue - have to inspect seasonally. As it is, the slot cut-out is 3/4" wide and fits perfectly in the 3/4" wide track flat of the mast extrusion.
The slot width defines the space between the plates available for additional washer/spacers and could be carefully widened a bit with a file. The sheave has to be free turning yet snuggly supported by the side pieces.
Centering the sheave for redrilling a larger hole for the oilite bearing is an exercise in precision. It can't be offcenter. Also the new bearing would have a precise 1/2" hole for the pin that may require the more exact diameter a rod can give than your usual s.s bolt. I have found modern 316 hex bolts to be very exact. The materials are available from non-marine McMasterCarr.

I've drawings to scale of an 'up grade' - to see what changes would occur. Using 1/8" 6061T6 alloy sheet from McMC an actual box could be welded up that would house a 5/8" delrin wheel* ( 1/2" line) with 1/32" thick HDPE polyethylene sheet washers.* The box ends up being slightly wider than 15/16" and 7 3/4" OD, a bit longer than the original because adding a little to the wheel diameter so that the halyard would be 1/8" further out from the mast. That's a sheave with a D of 6 1/4" inches in the groove. 6 3/4" overall diameter. The box would have radiused ends covering the sheave. This would go a long way to keep rain-water out of the mast. The box would be inserted like the separate plates are and held in place by the sheave pin/bolt.

If I'm going time and trouble and expense of welding up a single sheave box - what does a double sheave box look like? It's the same length and 1 3/4" wide.
Couple things about a double sheave option.
The lead of the halyard from the headboard on the track to a sheave is slightly skewed to one side. Would a not-so-fair lead cause some kind of chafe? The halyard does go up to the sheave top only at a very slight angle.

Anyone's thoughts on this?
[word drowning ALERT, anybody above their eyes here should exit NOW.]

The problem is that when the main is hoisted and under load, the line will end up in the same position every time in relation to an off-center sheave and be subjected to the same high tension and any wear every time.
The double sheaves are each only slightly off center in relation to the mast track. Is it a problem?

A second consideration is that a 1 3/4" wide slot is a BIG hole in a 3 1/2" wide mast.
Convinced that the box should be removable for access into the top of the mast, it can't be welded in place. It's not that access IS needed - but what if you had to get in there and it had this implant in the way?
Yet a welded in sheave box would add greatly to mast-top strength. The slot is right there at the top where everything else is happening: upper tangs, shrouds, stays, halyard blocks, wind forces yanking on all the sails terminating there, the spinnaker, masthead crane with its furniture, etc.
It's really a hard working mast-top!
All the mast-top sheave boxes I've seen on the net recently are welded in.
Not being welding compis, an aluminum welder would have to be lured to the mast, wherever it is, and that is probably expensive

Self sez to self, that a single sheave box is probably the best way to go.
What would one have to do to have a strong backup halyard block rigged permanently up there? I suppose a block could be hung from the truck?
Seriously.

It may be possible to make a tang like the one that caused the corrosion on 338's but give it a full radius coming around from the sides of the mast - a kind of hound fitting through-bolted in the manner of the sheave and spreader fittings. Good for a block and add reinforcement to the top of a tired mast extrusion.

UHMW polyethylene is a dense low friction waxy and tough plastic used by woodworkers for jigs and fences. It isn't made as thin as HDPE, which is available in 1/32" (nor is it 'Ultra') but it ought to do well as a sort of lubrication between the flat sheave and the flat aluminum box sides.
Tufnol/Garolite is the hardest laminate made.
Our sheave which has lived neglected outside for 40 years almost looks new. If the waxy plastic doesn't appeal to you, Garolite is available in 1/32" thickness. Maybe that can be buttered with something lasting and used as the buffer in the sheave box.
There must be some non-oily lube, or DRY lube in a spray can that can be squirted in there occasionally without having to take the system apart.
If you make the sheave pin assembly easy to take apart, then it'll be easy to pull maintenance on it.
Kind of a no brainer if you will haul you and your body up and down with it.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________
* C'Pete gives the source for a custom delrin wheel in post #7
(Ed Louchard of Zephyrwerks says no washers are recommended - his delrin wheel is fatter at the hub and a bit thinner in the body and rim.)
**ALSO checkout cjackson's 'Hull #387 "Althea" refit' thread.
post #18 shows our old sheave refitted with a new oilite bushing.
At the end of the thread are some shots of a crazy amish mast raising party using NO ropes, NO lines, NO guys or ginpole.
Maybe big guys and beerpoles is more correct!:eek:

After a couple of rounds of surgery these last three years and not sailing my Commander for two years, it is in need of some maintenance. I am looking to share my boat with another/other sailors who appreciates this boat and willing to do the work or form a group to sail it. The boat is docked at Nautical Boats here in Portsmouth, Virginia. Motor has less then ten hours on it, a Nissan five horse, four stroke and is need of maintenance. I am doing very well now but need partners keeping up this wonderful sailboat and expenses. :rolleyes:

Glad to hear you are doing better, Robert, but also sorry to hear you went through some rough spots. I sincerely hope you find some suitable partners to rub Njord the right way. It sounds like a generous offer and a great opportuity for someone to get their feet wet. If we were only closer.

I know a few sailors here in the bay who rely on their crew for sailing AND boat maintenance. It is actually a great scenario - for BOTH parties!
- I did lots of my pre-Mephisto Cat sailing in exactly a this sort of set-up...

This site is a bit limited geographically - (I do hope you get some replies here!) However you should try sites like craigslist; they have active sites in several cities in Virginia. It is free, easy to do, and you can find some good people (also a weirdo, or two! - but you can sort them out to end-up with a good reliable group.)

Good Luck!

Robert,
I am interested and know exactly where your beloved Commander is. I have walked the docks all over Hampton, Portsmouth, Norfolk, Virginia Beach, etc., and have seen your boat in her slip. I have not been on the water in over a year. Actually it was last spring that I brought a Pearson Commander down the Chesapeake from Saint Micheaels, MD to Elizabeth City, NC. If my memory serves me correctly it was an eight day transit. Anyways, I have sailing experience but am always looking to learn more. I just want to get out on the water. I also am competant on the maintenance side of the house. Please see my work on "Ceili" Commander #256 for examples. Although I don't have any spare money to contribute, I will devote some of my time and experience for a mutual beneficial partnership. I can be reached on my work cell at (252) 435-7219 Monday - Thursdays (generally) and evenings at my home: (252)336-7441.

This spring I will be putting my old Commander on the hard and restoring/refitting it again. My health has returned and i miss sailing the old boat, but have I have another more important reason. I am a member of the DAV Chapter # 22, Disabled American Veterans. I met a young Marine at a 7-11 here, a few blocks away from the Naval Hospital Portsmouth Virginia, The young Marine was missing the bottom part of one leg, and still bandaged. No one in the store helped him in the door, most ignored him turning away their eyes, even though he was having trouble getting in the door...I got to him from my car and helped him with the door, he seemed very despondent. I gave him my card and told him I lived near by and if he needed anything Got to talking while getting him coffee and found out that he sailed but thought that it would be too much to sail now.
I told him that he could still sail and tried to encourage him. I told him that I wished that my boat was sea worthy and would have either taken him out for a sail or lent him the boat for a day. Well, I am going to get my boat back in shape and make it easier to sail and donate it or offer sailing outings/lessons to our returning and disabled veterans. The Commander is the perfect day-sailer for doing that with the large cockpit and comfortable cabin and I cannot think of a safer boat. I plan on doing somethings to the rigging besides the usual chores, maybe a furler/hoyt jib boom, small Yanmar in place of the outboard, and whatever else I need to make the boat safer, easier to sail and more comfortable. I also like the idea of a gull-wing sail without a back stay....any ideas would be appreciated.

Good on ya, Robert.
Getting involved was a great thing to do!
Giving your new friend an opprotunity to get sailing is wonderful, no matter what he says, and if you persist, he is in for experiences that will take his mind off his tradgedy.

I might have been one of those in the shop that didn't know how to react - or maybe even not understand his predicament. We don't want to get involved because it might be insulting to the man dealing with his reality. Hard to imagine what the guy is going through, maybe
he doesn't want to be patronized.......and all that sort of stuff, rightly or wrongly.

You saw it correctly. Hope Njord gets back in the water fast!
Maybe he'd like to see the boat on the hard.
How much fun it is putting a new bottom on the boat (Tom Sawyer style!)

At some point he'll be fitted with a prosthetic
and will easily navigate getting on & off and sailing!

:cool:Best to you both and the club.

This being the "Gallery", how about some pix?

Hey Robert, glad to hear you're doing better and intending to get C-105 back on the water. Maybe Chance is still available and can lend a hand to get her ship shape and ready to host some guests? All the best to you veterans - your service is truly appreciated!

Robert,
While most of my disability resides between my ears, I still have enough of the right stuff there to say, Thank you. You did the right thing at the store. Who knows why some paths cross and others...merely pass by. Like the venerable, older Njord, the young marine is lucky one in that chance meeting. My hat is off to you for your efforts. November 10th and 11th are marks of pride and pain for many.