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Ebb’s WayWide Tender thread is an off shoot from the Tech forum’s "Tenders" thread and is occasioned by his empirical research into "nesting" tenders. As the following photos show, Dr. Borregaard’s results provide a strong basis for further research and testing, All board contributors are invited to submit their research results to the Tender Question Committee. Dr. Borregaard’s report follows.
RESULTS OF INVESTIGATION INTO THE QUESTION OF THE FEASABILITY OF DEVELOPING A FUNCTIONAL ARIEL TENDER ABLE TO NEST ON THE FOREDECK by Ebb Borregaard, DCS (Doctor of Carpentry Science), 24 Feb 2007.
The initial research protocol was designed to determine if a 35 pound prototype tender shell will fit on the Ariel’s foredeck. For this purpose, the prototype tender shell was constructed from 1/4-inch Luan plywood and the surfaces were glassed inside and out.
For this winter construction program, I used a conveniently available workspace. :rolleyes: The first photo shows hull with the transom opening for the forward end of the Ariel’s cabin trunk. The second photo shows the transom cutout in process. Third photo is the completed dinghy.
The next phase of the project involved fitting the dinghy to the Ariel. Here are a couple bow-on views, one of which definitely showing a good deal of foredeck around the dinghy.
The bow-on photo from the port side attempts to show how low the dinghy fits in relation to the high bump of the cabin.
Here we have a close-up of the dinghy transom fitted to the cabin and showing the mast step.
This photo is a port deck view from amidships showing the dinghy’s transom in relation to the cabin window.
To complete my research, I conducted a test using the ultimate empirical testing protocol – water immersion!. But first came the carry test. As the photograph illustrates, the WayWide prototype is easily transported by one (rather large) person.
The float test was next and the WayWide also passed this test with flying colors. Note seat . . .
The last and most critical tests were the weight and balance tests. Was the WayWide stable and able to carry my weight? As the photos illustrate, I was supported both paddling and rocking the dinghy. Of course, the test protocol might be considered a bit unrealistic, what with being conducted in a swimming pool.
Ebb's final thoughts. There are a number of additions and changes to the design that I have in mind,. These include double skegs (acting as rails when the boat is upside down on the foredeck) and possibly a little more 'forefoot' on front to help it row better, plus a number of thoughts on the inside design.
Since the nose of the Ariel cabin intrudes into the pram's interior space when on the cabin, it's going to be a challenge to figure out how to make this little baby unsinkable. It won't be possible to have a rear seat. It's only 6'4" long but 54" wide at the transom. Since I cut the middle out it is now definitely triangular in plan view - breaking ALL the rules of boat design!!!
But it does a pretty good imitation of disappearing when mounted on the Ariel, doncher think?
THANKS BILL!
Process at this point is not important unless someone else here is doing this project too.
The first form of the shell was way way way wide. 1st photo. The next photo shows a pie-wedge piece being taken out from the bow and the whole length of the pram - cutting it completely in half.
Only with stitch and glue can you do this. Could put something back, too. The first form was really too huge for me to get a handle on it. Obviously the back transom could not be smallified, so the front had to go. The result is a wedge shaped boat whose middle is not wider than its end.
I took a little too much out of the front. Would prefer a wider bow. The second shot shows the weird results when it's glued back together. Notice the center creases front and back. A new transom was stitched in infront of the creased one, same for the front. And the 'old' (couple days) ones uncermoniously excised. Amazing. This shortened the boat to 6'4". It began longer, think it was 6'8" or 6'9". Where it ought to be. Doesn't matter, just finding what the parameters are.
Housed on the Ariel there seems to be plenty foredeck foot room. Could sit on the pram bow while hauling the anchor in. Best of all, standing in the cockpit, looking forward, the housed tender looks like it might be an extension of the cabin. It's not an issue. The view is wide open! Like I say: WayWide could even be a little longer and a little wider and become more versatile.
I figure that with skegs one could lurch around on the foredeck and feel safe enuf to fall on the dinghy, grabbing at whatever, without destroying an odd bodypart.
OK, it has just sat there/here since winter...
There is a removable transom now that is gasketed and held snug to the boat with 6 rubber jeep-hood latches. Haven't tank tested yet. I'm mulling over 'boxing' the sides to get positive buoyancy and stiffness - and maybe stowage. Sort of double the hull along the sides. Could do it with inside dinghy air bags like the Optimist sails with, I guess. The transom, where if I was overboard I would try to put a leg over to get in, could also have foam attached. Foam would float it if you lost it.
I guess there has to be a stubby saddle seat rather than a thwart. If the boat can sail at all, you'd have to sit in the bottom and legs (two) go forward without going over a cross seat or crammed underneath. Stubby because the seat can't go aft where the nose to the Ariel is when it's home on the fordeck.
But while I'm putting down takeapart boats like the Stow-hopper and the Pry-abot and even the roll-up airboat: first thing you notice about this baby is the big transom that has to be fitted on to the pram befor it goes anywhere..including launched over the side. That's crazy in itself. If we're smart, there will be enough built-in flotation to fiddle with it when the pram is floating open ended in the water. The transom is way too wide for that Then there'll be the rig (hopefully we get it to sail, huh?), the oars, the rudder, the tiller, the OB, the dagger board.... weighty issues. DinghyDogs necessary to clamber onboard from the water, which if thought of as life saving, the WayWide should be unsinkable anytime it's in the water.
Need 1/2 ton buoyancy in a six foot boat!
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Gee Bill, Don't have no protocalls -
BUT when you compare that first flacid float shot with the second photo in #8, there was a tempest in a teacup brewed that impressed the tester and got im wet. I mean I could have been dumped, and tho it doesn't look like it..... that photo was taken in the dead of winter!:D
Ebb...your thought process,fine work and abundant patiance continue to amaze me. You definately 'set the bar' for the rest of us.
Damn! That ebb does nice work. Very clever, as usual.
Maybe if you installed the oarlock holders on the outside, they could be used for anchoring the boat down on deck.
I'm placing an order for Hull #2. The rest of you can get in line.
Yeah, but he's made it to fit an Ariel foredeck - you'd have to special order yours. :D
Ditto the others' remarks Ebb! Fantastic!
How about inflatable tubes? An inflatable seat you could move it aft and use it as a backrest when sailing...
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If you made it a "nester", instead of attaching the transom, you'd be attaching the mid-ship bulkheads. You could get more hull length that way. Although, I'm sure you've already thought through this one though.
PS. Love the handrail / skegs idea!
Fine ideas, fellas!
Holding the little boat on the Ariel is a big deal.
Not only does it need to survive the big greenee, but be able, as we are reminded on a cruising site, to be cut away in a minute.
Eyes of some sort will be needed for the bridle that lifts the pram, turns it right side up and finesses it overboard. Somehow, hardware (eyes, oarlock sockets) has to be below the sheerline of the pram so that, if necessary, it can be dragged onboard [Or launched over the rail!] without gouging or snagging something. Haven't figured it out, yet.
Probably should have a nice soft bumper all round it. And, being lazy, dragging it downside-up over the rail on something soft and slick will be my way, fer sure.
The git-in-and-go aspect of the WayWide has to be balanced with its self-rescue mode.
The Dinghy Dogs available that are mounted to the sides of an existing tender do promise to add a huge margin of safety. (And $400.)
[WayWide is a bit tippy, my excuse is that the thin 1/4" panels need curves and the boat needs curves for strength. If the pram was translated to fiberglass, more flat and less rocker could be designed in for stiffness. Any pram this small will be tippy, I think.] ]
They would be deflated and ready to go on the WayWide when housed on deck. Great idea. They, I'm assuming, would make it easier and safer to get into the tender from the water. From a cruising standpoint something like them would be mandatory. They may have to be part of the primary design!
Although, like putting the PFD inflatable on, are you EVER SURE the damn thing will INFLATE properly when you really need it? Or it'll have a slow LEAK:eek: while you're tredding for life....crimenee!
The tender has to be designed and still function without tubes. Could be there is a fine line here that needs development. Help! Had a look at the Walker Bay tube sided dinghy at the boatshow. It has an uninviting hybrid-morph-designer quality to it. Needs chrome davits on a power-boat. It's not the regular Walker Bay tender that has a name for itself. Shouldn't a dinghy be comfortable and inviting, even in all white plastic?
The hard part is getting all the other parts of WayWide tender integrated. Been distracted and haven't concentrated on it.:o
Just an observation....if ya didn't know better...from those pics, ya'd think that was Larry Pardey playing around with that dingy :D
Ebb
looks fun, will the sheer of the final dink reach the deck of the Ariel when installed?
I can't wait to see the optional sailing rig!
cheers,
bill
What do you think, bill,
better that it goes all the way to the deck??
Less likely to be stripped by a comber. That's good.
Could take that nice (to me) sheer and have it sit nearly flat on the deck. Donoboutthat.?!
Couple more inches in the sheer of a bitty boat this size wouldn't hurt none.
When would it start looking boxy and ungainly?
Can stretch this hull some, start loosing anchor and sail handling on the Ariel bow.
Longer hull on the pram, higher freeboard might be more natural.
Would be nice to squeeze two adults in WayWide, regular sized ones, and some groceries - and more freeboard might be just the ticket to ride.
?
Frank,
Shoot mon, could put Larry under one arm and Lynn under de other. Scale has always been a problem here. There seems to be a sliver of snubnosed scandihovian resemblance, but he has the high smoothe forehead of a wise and fortunate man.
Fine job Dr. Borregaard!
The beautiful shape you have come up with can not be any less rowable then my current injection moulded 'affordable nightmare'.
Really look forward to your going into production on this fine boat!
Fine job Dr. Borregaard!
The beautiful shape you have come up with can not be any less rowable then my current injection moulded 'affordable nightmare'.
Really look forward to your going into production on this fine boat! Please put my name on the list!:D
Thanks! Craig.
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WayWide was developed over a form. Learned a lot about fair curves in individual 'planks'. I would love to spend full time on the tender as a project that would lead to a versatile support boat with a removable transom. Has anybody done it befor with the transom? If you see one like WayWide let us know.
Maybe software could be invented that would generate custom open transom prams for other small sailboats like Ariel with dog houses and coach roofs. There are plenty of them still around.
Maybe two WayWide's could be attached end to end? [If the transoms were vertical, yes.]
It's essential to have a rigid form to find the boat you want. Cut it here, fur it out there, a little deadrise here, some rocker over there! Soon it's the boat that's telling you what it wants.
Every plank has its double - usually the first plank has a doorskin pattern. Right now most of the boat is standing up in a closet. After full testing we'll set up the frame again and come up with the next generation. If time don't run out. Doorskin patterns come out of that process. A set of final patterns is made from which the shell is cut. Infinitely reproducible.
So I'm saying the patterns exist. An Improved WayWide could be a very different boat.* So we'll be doing it again, if time don't run out. Anybody interested, talk with me about it, OK? If you want to try developing one yerself, well you know me, tireless! Know what not to do with good ole stitch and glue.
When you buy a kit boat you don't need the frame anymore. Just two transoms (or two points like a kayak) and a temporary center frame that could with clever planning also become part of the tender. And you find a suitable flat place and wire it together! Man, what a revolution good ply, good wire, good glue, and good cloth makes happen. By the way, stranded picture wire instead of copper works just fine.
I can tell you it's rediculously easy to stitch these thin planks together. Really.
I think with a dvd accompaning the kit specific to the boat, anybody could put one together. If you see it you can do it - some good tips and it's a piece of cake. Putting the cloth on was pure magic! I found out what bias was all about.
Engineering? Now, that is another thing - making it sail and row and putt, that's the thing. Maybe that's each to their own discretion once the shell is agreeable.
Making and marketing a kit isn't a reality. That's work!
I believe all dinghys are public domain.
A better dinghy is always a wet dream.
Hope time don't run out......
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*For instance: IF the bow transom is widened - and because the sides are bowed - widening may bring the dinghy back to a more traditional shape where the mid section is as wide if not wider than the rear transom.
Removing that long wedge-shape from the middle of the shell took away a piece of flatter bottom. It brought a couple outer planks in that had more deadrise. Sewing the shell back together gave the front underneath there a suggestion of a deeper forefoot. A rowing boat has to have a longer keel, and a forefoot, for better tracking. WayWide's rocker couldn't be erased, with its rising norwidgeon prow. So manipulating those planks could 'push' them down some and make them deeper. Benefit.
OK. If you have this wedge shaped boat, how do you configure the dagger board(s)? Could have a centerboard. That's true, but it's in the middle of everything. Totally innovative or totally stupid would be daggerboards on the sides, even hidden away IN the positive buoyancy space - BUT because the wedgey dinghy would sail on its chine, would it be feasible to have boards more INLINE with the chines??? They would not be parallel if both were down, would they!? THAT would be weird - maybe they could be adjustable to parallel in their boxes IF the distinctive wedge shape of WayWide doesn't change.
Like that.:confused: