proposed bronze tillerhead improvement
Capt skylark,
Great photos. Great photos to work from.
We can assume that your s.s. strap plate tiller holder isn't going to find itself broken, because it can't get bent like the much softer bronze.
If some of us salts are going to insist that a bronze tillerhead is appropriate for a bronze rudder shaft then the tiller holder part has to be improved in such a way that the ears do not break off.
Imagine that the channel (which probably was thought of as an improvement over meer straps) was meant to stabilize the tiller But to stabilize the ears all that is needed is to connect them over the top. Just like the straps. In other words you just continue the channel to the back over the hinge bolt. It would go over the top of the shaft part.
Then, instead of making the straps even narrower as we see in these photos when they leave the tiller wood and become 'ears,' why not make them wider so that the ears bear against the flat sides of the part that is connected around the top of the shaft when the liller is raised. It might be seen as a modest triangular quadrant shape matching the raising of the tiller with the hinge bolt the apex.
And in the case of the original Ariel tillerhead, let's make the channel a little wider and a little deeper, and put the carriage bolt attachment holes thru the top of the channel. Of course.
At the same time the casting could be lightened up, so that the increased metal would not necessaryly mean extra weight.
alternative tiller to tillerhead attachment
Beating a dead horse again, but consider this:
WHY NOT DRILL HOLES THROUGH THE TOP?
Then you will clamping those laminations together.
If your 'original' is like my original you have only 1 5/16" width for the wood in the tillerhead. It would be better then to use all the wood you have in the tiller coming out the bottom of the fitting. Two - 2 1/2"?
[Imco bigger bolts will weaken the bury of the tiller even more. There's plenty of over kill in the design of the tillerhead. Once you fit the end of the tiller into the metal it's not going anywhere. The bolts are there only to hold the tiller in place. There's hardly any way you can cinch the sides tighter to the tiller. You want to fit the wood in tight.
If you insist on drilling out the side holes in the tillerhead to make them round again I would use sleeves in the holes, and use the same 5/16" bolts. You will risk weakening the tiller even more with larger bolts. It's really impossible to believe that the holes in the massive sides (plus 1/4") got so out of round that they would still not have enough integrity to work good enough. Maybe holes in the tiller but certainly not the bronze!]
I would seriously consider putting 5/16" bolts in through the top.
You could square the holes by filing and use easy to find silicon bronze carriage bolts for their nice round top. Actually the install would look better. Except, of course, for the empty side holes - maybe glue in wood plugs?:) Or weld them closed and file them smooth. Little Gull's will be this way.
I will use oversize washers.
OR actually I have some 1/8" bronze strip left over from another project, which I'd use in one length instead of washers underneath. Still use split lock washers, This will help support the wood against the time when the tiller is pushed down too far by someone one leaning on it. This is probably why the delamination started in the first place. Not to say the 3 bolt zipper through the lams wasn't the cause!
Even if you put 3 bolts in a line through the top (which is hard to avoid!) the zipper effect is nullified by the immovable sides of the fitting. In fact lining the three bolts up would look good.
I would prep the 5" at the end of the tiller as in ebb's post above, and put it in the metal as snug as you can using bedding compound.
If bronze is too expensive, you can always use 316L stainless.
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If there is objection to this idea I would really like to hear it.
with a sigh of acceptance
Thanks All, I guess I will not risk drilling out the holes unless I have another fitting in hand. (Which of course if I did I would just put it on:))
I had read the other threads but since I didn't see what I wanted I kept hoping;)
I did consider filling and redrilling, but then again the risk factor makes me shy away from that idea.
I will try some of the interim remedies suggested as I really don't like the slop in the steering.
I am about to order a trailer and later in the summer I will be moving her up here from Sausalito and at that time look into a permanent solution.
Tim
Tiller Fix / F style tillers from Defender
Mike, Great photos of your tiller rehab. Just what the doctor ordered for those damn delams.
It's too bad so much carving has to be done to get the tiller to fit the head.
Current online Defender catalog pictures only "F" style tillers from H&L. Some look like they are 'on sale.'
These do certainly seem to be the tiller style that MaiTai has. I don't know what size Bill has. They come in different lengths and widths. And at the moment Defender seems to be offering all the non-custom F style tillers that H&L makes.
I don't know what is best. Believe that racers might want a tidier version because of extra knees - while a cruiser might go for a longer one to make it easy to reach areas of the cockpit and still have a bodypart on the tiller.
Perhaps the time has come for that spare?
I've ordered the big one. Figure I can always cut it shorter and trim the sides down.....
Defender H&L 'F-style' Class tillers
612322>Mod130F (Santana 22/27) 45"L - butt 1 5/16"X2"H........62.99
612323>Mod1251F (J-24) 48 1/2"L - butt 1 12/32"X2 1/8H.........64.99
612324>Mod1252F (J-30) 54 1/2"L - butt 2 3/8"X2 1/2"...........102.99
612318>Mod101F (Cal 20/21) 60" - butt 1 5/8"X2"H..................68.99
612319 Mod105F (Cal 25) 48" - butt 1 5/8"X2H........................63.99
612320>Mod112F (Ranger 26/28) 43"L - butt 1 1/2"X2""............62.99
I'd call H&L and ask what the rise is for the tillers you are interested in.
The rise is, as I understand it, the height the S makes measured from the bottom of the butt. Maybe they have a fax-able data sheet???
So if you had that measurement and have the length and assume a fair curve (because tillers are bent wood the S curve won't be too radical) you could fake a decent representation of a tiller on cardboard - and see if that is what you want in the cockpit. You need two measurements: the rise and the length measured along the same horizontal the butt rests on.
It's an assumption this group of H&L "F" tillers are all proportionate to their length. In other words that they are all scaled versions of one another.
Seems unlikely considering these are class tillers and may have to conform to original designer specs and class racing rules. While Defender has 6 'F' tillers listed online (and the lowest prices), pyacht lists 16 class tillers in the 'F' design - more expensive but not near as ridiculous as rigrite.
I felt the Cal 20/21 was too long and skinny for me and ordered the J-30 because of its extra lams. Have other ideas for a tiller head and felt I needed a hefty tiller to play with.
Shortening one of these tillers, if so desired, would consist of cutting short or long on a fairly healthy length of butt-end these tillers all look like they have.
The 5 footer may well be the ideal off the shelf customizer for the Ariel. And the Commander too.
INPUT...INPUT...NEED INPUT... PLEASE RESPOND..
It's important to have a comfortable tiller. When you're reaching around for it in the dark you'd want it to be there above seat-level, easy to grab, right where it ought to be.
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These are current Memorial Day Defender prices 2008. (and they may have changed.) Copied the data as best I did, but it may be screwed up.
Gas prices this holiday are above $4gal and rising - all prices are skyrocketing. The only thing that'll be cheaper tomorrow is the dollar.:eek:
New questions on tillers -- H&L looks to be out of business
My tiller has some fixable cracks in it. I plan to buy a new tiller, and then, fix the old one and use it as a backup.
For the new tiller I have two questions:
1. I see the drawing on page 83 of this association's manual. It sounds like people like the shape and it looks better than my current tiller, so I am thinking about going with the drawing. Have others had good experience using the drawing?
2. Do forum members recommend any new tiller companies? In my web search I found Rudder Craft in Idaho (they have a Commander Tiller) and Anytiller in Georgia (they will make you a custom tiller). Are these good companies or does anyone have a different post-H&L favorite?
Tiller Update -- With H&L out of business. Has anyone found another good Tiller Co?
My Pearson Commander tiller has some fixable cracks in it. I plan to buy a new tiller, and then, fix the old one and use it as a backup.
For the new tiller I have two questions:
1. Do forum members recommend any new tiller companies? In my web search I found Rudder Craft in Idaho (they have a Commander Tiller that looks similar to my current Tiller) and Anytiller in Georgia (they will make you a custom tiller). Are these good companies or does anyone have a different post-H&L favorite?
2. I see the drawing on page 83 of this association's manual. It sounds like people like the shape and it looks better than my current tiller, so I am thinking about going with the drawing. Have others had good experience using the drawing?
BTW, This forum is hugely helpful and so is the manual. I thank you all for managing the forum and keeping it active. I hauled out my boat and had all the bottom work done as specified in the manual. Thanks!