I had a Jonhson 9.9 two cycle on my boat (Ariel 194) . I could attained speed of 5.8 knots while motoring. With the nissan 6 HP with the 7 inch propeller what should I expect ?
Andre Roberge
andre@aspasie.com
Ariel 194
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I had a Jonhson 9.9 two cycle on my boat (Ariel 194) . I could attained speed of 5.8 knots while motoring. With the nissan 6 HP with the 7 inch propeller what should I expect ?
Andre Roberge
andre@aspasie.com
Ariel 194
I bet you will find the speed to be about the same.
My Yamaha 6 drives mine to hull speed, just as my
Suzuki 8 did. I think that you will be quite happy with
the 6hp.
Maybe someone on the pannel has direct expereince with
the nissan / tomatsu 6 and can report their speed.
OBTW, Welcome aboard!~
Does the yamaha 6 HP fit in your motor well
Andre
The Yamaha 6 I have is a 1998 model, 2 stroke so the cover is not as high as the 4 stroke is. I have looked at the 4 strokes, (there is a 9.9 on the boat one buoy over from me in the marina) and they look like they would fit fine though.
One additional thing to think about, I understand the only difference between the 6 and the 8 is the throttle travel limit,
it may well be the same on the 4 strokes.
Seems like someone here should have one (4 stroke) and be
able to give a more authoritative answer.
For a complete discussion of replacement outboard engines click on the search button and enter the word "outboard." The consensus on the board seems to be 6hp from either Tohatsu, Merc, Yamaha or Nissan (all the same basic engine).
I bought the Nissan 6 HP 4 cycle in June for my Ariel the price paid 1660 $ CDN. Just came back from my one month summer cruise in the Gulf St-Laurence in Quebec, Canada. I got some bad weather, 7 foot wave and never run out of power with the engine actually it did the same job as my 9.9 HP 2 cycles so I recommend that engine.
Andre Roberge
Excalibur Ariel 194
To add to the confusion: my Yamaha 2 cycle, when new, pushed me along at about 6.2 -and did this reliably. The motor, I am now told has low compression from wear, and is about the equivalent of a 6. It does about 5.8. The big difference is that it doesn't take much now to slow down the hull speed (slight head wind, waves, etc.), whereas earlier in its life, the hull speed stayed in the 6.0 range regardless. So the power of the motor affects more than speed on flat water.
I had a Honda 7.5. It broke. I bought a Nissan 6 hp. I can cruise five knots plus on a flat sea. It is slower when motoring into a swell and head wind. I like the light weight, the ease of storing it in the lazarette. If you buy one, do buy the flushing plug, and then make up a small hose length that has a reducer to match the flushing plug and fits on a dock hose on the other end.
I thought of my boat as being adequately powered until I saw the little bitty prop dangling from the outboard well in front of that elegantly full keel at haul out. You will like your Nissan 6, but see how silly you will look:
Do any of these four strokers come with a non-cavitating reversing prop? The prop in the photo generally has little drive when in reverse because the engine exhaust is fed right into the prop causing it to cavitate. It is possibly even worse when the exhaust exits through a center hub. They go at high speed in reverse, but there is minimal reversing thrust.
For those that need a strong reverse, particularly when entering or exiting their slip in a blow, the Yamaha has an anti-cavitating prop that works spectacularly. It will stop an Ariel almost instantaneously. Tremendous reverse power. Enter the slip at a couple miles an hour with full steerage, throw it into reverse and voila - stopped dead.
Does anyone know if these are available with any other motor than a Yamaha? Particularly with the four stroke?
Theis,
That's my boat in the photo. I push my boat out of the slip, swing the bow and then shift from neutral to forward. Backing is that pesky. One problem is that when the Nissan shifts from reverse to forward, it takes forever to start moving in the other direction. The other problem is that the boat just doesn't back down well with the motor aft of the propeller. As far as cavitation on the Nissan 6 four stroke, hmmm, I'll have to think about that. I can tell you that backing down is a real challenge. I was able to back the boat for the haul out this week, but it is always high adventure.
I did see something quite marvelous a couple of years ago at the Boat Show in Alameda. A fellow there had a Saildrive unit that used a Honda 12 hp motor for a top end. I thought that was pretty slick, because with a slight modification to the fiberglass housing, I think that it would fit into an Ariel OB well, and you would never have to haul the motor, but you could haul it if you wanted to do so without hauling the boat. ...no more motor lifting, and no more wet lazarette problems. The whole unit weighed around 90 or 100 lbs as I recall, which is a bit heavy that far aft, but not prohibitively so. The only downside was the price. That was enough of a downside that I walked away.... but there is a business for someone: Build a Saildrive unit for Ariels and Commanders and you will have a market for Bristol 27s and a whole host of Columbia owners who have boats with OB wells.
The problem of going in reverse with the Ariel is what I was addressing. Look at the Yamaha prop. I was in high winds today with problems both leaving and returning to the slip. The reverse really pushed the boat backwards - I think faster than if gets the boat going in forward. Coming in, I probably stopped from a 2 mph speed (or so it seemed) to zero in about two feet. I never use people power to stop the forward way.
You may have been addressing another problem with the Ariel regarding backing. The bow catches the wind and is blown around, while the stern stays on course. For example, with a wind hitting the bow, backing up is fine, but the bow will be blown down wind and the boat swung ninety degrees. The same phenomenomenonormonomon (Sp?) would happen even without a motor pulling the boat backwards, in my opinion.
We have the nissan 6hp.
We must back out of a tricky slip, we use the tiller and the motor tiller to steer. Works pretty well. we can almost spin the boat in place.
We bought one this year through Cabelas. Runs great starts easy, pushes the boat nicely although I think we should get the smaller prop. Is there a site online where one can buy Nissan accessories such as prop, flushing plug, controls, and pull-start-through-the-top thing? Also, the owners manual says not to store motor in sideways position, only upright so we have been leaving it in the water. Has anyone had any problems laying the motor in the lazarette?
You don't want to lay a four stroke on it's side. Crankcase oil gets into the cylinders and the motor won't run. For storage out of the water I built a small removeable stand that fits on the forward edge of the well that I can hoist the motor on to and secure it with the prop out of the water. I pull the motor and rest the prop guard off to the side in the lazarette while I mount the stand and then set the motor on it. It's pretty easy and avoids having to lift the motor all the way out of the lazarette and stow it below or somewhere else. It would also probably work well with the Garhauer (sp?) lift or any hoisting mechanism attached the backstay. It is NOT designed or suitable for carrying the motor while underway but I like having the motor mounted and ready to use when I go somewhere. Can provide pics if desired as soon as new camera arrives.
Tom
I think I have nursed my Yamaha 6 hp 2 stroke about long enough.... (I have only been talking about replacing it for 2 years).
I know that onlineoutboards.com has the 4 stroke 6 hp Nissan / Tomatsu / (merc) for about $1300. Anyone have a used one or know of one for sale?
Am driving from FL to VA soon, so pretty much anywhere in between would be ok.
Thanks,
Our Nissan has not been very satisfactory. Borrowed an older Johnson 6 "sail master" for last season and it worked flawlessly.
Thor Heyerdahl proved that aboriginal Peruvians navigated their balsa rafts by sticking boards down between the logs.
I wonder if an oar or paddle could perform a similar service off the bow of an Ariel. I dunno - lashed to the pulpit and anchor roller a flat board straight down close to the center line in front of the bow might give it some tooth
to make backing up at least POSSIBLE?
Ebb,
While I would love to see someone use your aboriginal Peruvian bow thruster... I realy do not think it is necessary for the outboard A/C's.
Faith will back pretty well. Better then many of the fin keel, detached rudder boats I have sailed. I think that is one of the advantages of the outboard in the well is the ability to 'vector' the thrust. It is really pretty easy to coordinate the tiller, and the outboard to gain some control in reverse. It is especally nice to be able to shift into fwd, and 'kick' the stern over when things get tight. I bet that your set up on Little Gull will work well, so long as that beautiful plug is not in place when you are docking.
-----------------------------------------------------------
JBM,
What aspect of the motor's performance were you dissatisfied with? Could it be that the motor needs to be re-propped?
--------------------------------------------
OBTW, this thread has more of the 'Outboard Discussions'.
The prop could have been the problem. It seemed to choke/overheat when running at higher speeds. It came back from the boat yard last spring with several broken parts inside - not sure who's fault it was.
Craig:
We purchased a 6hp 4-stroke Tohatsu last year and LOVE it! It has been a great outboard. Moved our little Ariel from Cape Canaveral to Wilmington up the ICW without a hitch. Fits very nicely in the well. The long shaft doesn't cav even on a major heel.
BTW I have a used Suzuki 6hp 4-stroke for sale. PM for details but it's a great little motor too! New water pump and carby and fresh paint.. 2003 model I think?
Andrew
Somewhere on this site is a picture??
The boat yard owner just told me that the parts on my moter weren't broken but that the bracket holding them on melted due to the overheating problem. Just exactly what caused the overheating, I don't know.
Failure to regularly fresh water flush an ob can lead to salt build up in the ob's water pump and its water cooling channels. Been there, done that. Almost ended up on the beach! The old Johnson, however, stopped running before it started melting anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBM
I just took a look at a Merc 6 (Of course same as the Nissan & Tomatsu) and noticed that the zinc is a TINY little square on the side of the lower unit. It look about 1" square.
Has anyone had a problem with them eroding really fast? It seems like it is about 1/4 the size of the one on the Yahama... seems like it would go really fast?
What have you seen?
On edit; Did find some discussion on OB motor zinc's here. Nothing addressing the little zinc on these motors though....
Well, I just pulled the trigger on getting the little Tohatsu 6hp from onlineoutboards.com.
http://onlineoutboards.com/tohatsu_6...oard_motor.jpg
The price was right at $1265 with free shipping. They are out of stock on both of their lower pitched props.
I notice they have both a standard 6" pitch prop (~$65) and they also carry a new 5.99" 'High thrust' prop (~$100). The high thrust prop has large flat blades like the Yamaha high thrust prop does.
So now I have 2 questions for the users of the Merc / Nissan / Tohatsu 6hp.... I am still wondering about the zink, and would like to hear from anyone who may know if the new 'high thrust' prop is worth the extra $135?
Thanks,
Craig
Hubba-hubba. Is that the extra-long shaft? With the charging system? And the verticle pull??
Long, long ago Mike made a well grounded point that the prop pitch we wanted for our boats, running a small HP 4-stroke was a 7" pitch. Something about allowing the engine to run in the proper RPM range without getting a lot of slip.
Sorry I can't add anything useful to the zinc question. Would composition of the metal the zinc is attached to make a difference in the rate of oxidation/disolution?
As soon as the O'day sells online gets a hunk of money from me too!
Got the motor in the other day. Nicely packaged, looks to be pretty good gear. :D
Couple of interesting things I noticed. First, the fuel connector is not the same on the tank and the motor. The motor connector is the 'nissan' connector, kinda like the OMC, but not quite, nor does the Yamaha connector fit (although it is close). The tank connector looks exactly like the older (round) OMC type connectors... but I bet it is slightly different too. Not a big deal, especially since the motor comes with a new tank and line.
I opted for the 20" (really 22") shaft, not the 25"(27"). My Yamaha was 20" and never came out of the water. I see no reason to go 5" deeper, and pick up more drag, probably more crab pots, and not be able to stow it in the lazy-rat....
I did get the charging system. They charged me $145 for it. Again, had it on my last motor and it was nice to get a couple amps while motoring.
I went down to the boat today, was going to motor for a couple hours to make myself obey the break-in period (10 min at idle, 10min<1/2 throttle, 2hours <3/4 throttle, 3hours at 3/4 throttle.) Was a perfect day, with 10-12k and not too warm. Ran the motor a grand total of an hour.... :p Had a nice sail though.
Motor smoked a bit, guess that is to be expected while the rings seat. There was a bit more vibration then the 2stroke had, but then it also was a 2 cyl.
I had a consistent 3kt, at less then 1/2 throttle. I have no doubt that it will push the boat to hull speed as others have reported.
I did just order the 'High Thrust' prop, it is a 5.9999" pitch, but it has the wide blades like the Yamaha 4 strokes do. I would have had the motor delivered with this prop, but no one offered swap outs. This is not the same prop as the 6" pitch prop, but a different animal all together (bet that .0001" pitch makes all the difference. :rolleyes:
OBTW Tony, I found the reommendation Mike made on the 'outboard' thread;
Quote:
Mercury ,Nissan & Tohatsu ( same motor, all made by Tohatsu ) recommend a 8x7 prop on the 6 ,5 & 4hp for displacement hulls ( the 4 comes with it ) the 6 & 5 come with a 'square prop' 8x8 ( actually 7.9x7.9 ).
My mechanic , from his experience , say to skip the 7 and drop to a 6 or 6.5 pitch . He's a licensed Nissan service center and seems to know what's up .
I'm going to buy a 8x7 try it and log with the GPS what it does then have it re-pitched to 8x6 and see what that does .
The following is over-simplified and not scientific;
at 4000 rpm the 8x8 prop is trying to go somewhere between 20 and 30 knots . Not going to happen on an Ariel .
At 4000 rpm the 8x6 prop is trying to go somewhere between 12 and 20 knots .
now you have slip and losses that can be 50% which brings you down to 6knots which is close to hull speed .
All that wasted revolutions on the 8x8 is like spinning the tires on a car , not getting you anywhere fast , the 8x6 is like switching to a fatter tire with more tread ,or a lower gear, that delivers all the bite to the road and propels you forward & stops you when you engage reverse.
The only drawback about downpitching ;
If you use the same motor on a dink or skiff that planes , it wont go as fast because you have shifted to a lower gear .
It only takes 5 minutes to switch props so buy a spare and have it pitched lower .
I also ordered a few spare zink's and a waterpump rebuild kit. I looked at the 'vertical pull' option, but at $129 I think I am fine just pulling at a bit of an angle. It is funny, I recall reading someone here say that the nissan vertical pull option routed the pull cord out the top of the cowl, the one offered now does not do that... it is just an elbow that screws to the recoil starter and comes out the front and turns up... seems like it would add a bunch of friction and chafe to me.. maybe they have some special stuff in there. :confused: For the price, maybe so.
Overall happy so far, will report the performance of the new prop when it arrives.
The new Tohatsu is sitting out in my shop right now, the oil is still draining from the first oil change. It has taken me almost 2 months to get the 10 hours on the motor, since I usually only motor a few minutes at a time to get in and out of the slip.
I had some oil burning in the first couple hours, mostly noticed it on start up. I think it was just the rings seating. I did notice that it was worse for the first couple minutes after starting, which normally would indicate leaky valve stem seals... but I think it had more to do with the fact that the motor was stowed on it's side in the lazy rat. (yes I did only stow it on the side with the tiller handle as per the manual.)
The motor starts on the second pull every time, and has a short warm up time. I like the angle of pull through the original cut out in the cockpit and am no longer interested in the 'vertical pull' option. I think it would be awkward for me, and looking at the $100 + kit I notice that it does not have a pulley to change the direction of pull, but just a curved tube. I wonder what the friction would be like... but don't think the option is something I want anyway.
I opted for the 20" shaft (really more like 23"). My Yamaha had a 22" shaft, and did not cavitate even in much chop so I saw no reason to go longer. It is a close fit in the lazy-rat hatch anyway, so I would not want the 25" shaft for fear it would not fit (or at least be tougher to put in).
I do notice a bit more vibration then I did with my old motor (2 cyl, 2 stroke Yamaha 6). Not so much that it is distracting. A 1 cyl inboard vibrates much more then this outboard.
I do like that I can close the lazy-rat hatch and not have the motor choke out on it's exhaust like the 2 stroke did. I have not tried to do this for prolonged running so I don't know that it can't happen, just that it does not happen as quickly.
I did get the optional charging system. I have seen 2.5a on my Link battery monitor, but suspect that the charge rate would be higher if my solar panel were not keeping the battery nearly full all the time.
The zink has only spent about 3 weeks in the water total. I pull the motor and lay it in the lazy-rat when I am sailing every day or nearly so. I was disappointed to see that the zink was nearly 2/3 gone after a total of 3 weeks. I used to get 6 - 9 months on the Yamaha zink but it was at least 4x as large. I also don't know how hot this marina is, so that might have something to do with it.
I Did buy the 'high thrust' prop (5.999 x 8). I changed it out pretty early in the break in period so I have to re-mount the stock (7.8 x 8) prop to do a real comparison. I bought the prop as much for it's big flat blades as anything, as the one I had on my Yamaha seemed to back better. I did notice some difference in the backing, but will do more testing later.
Let me see if I can post some pictures.
Hi everyone- I'm new to your association and the owner of Commander #4 "Robin" in Harpswell, Me. I was an Ensign sailor/racer for 20 years, and having restored Ensign 810, I knew her big sister, the Commander, would be the ideal day sailor, occasional overnight boat for Maine coastal waters. I need advice on the outboard issue- (I never had one on the Ensign) I've read all the posts, and clearly the Nissan/Tohatsu 6 hp. is the way to go, but I want to be able to lay the motor down, preferably in the lazerette, and put the plug in the well for sailing. I'm having a hard time with that outboard (currently has an older 6hp. 2 cycle Johnson) sticking down all the time, and all that water occasionally in the well. I'm on a mooring, no slip to worry about, no backing up to do. I would use the motor very infrequently, but need the safety for the sudden storm or when the fog roles in. Anyone have experience with any smaller (lighter) outboards, or will the 6hp. fit laying down? Thanks.
Welcome aboard Lou,
My 6hp Tohatsu fits just fine laying on it's side (as long as it is tiller side down).
I do find that the 20" shaft (really more like 22") is about that I would care to try to stow. It goes in prop first, and then the powerhead will clear. I would not recommend the 25" (extra long) shaft option as I doubt that would stow.
That said, I have also dropped my 3hp Johnson (the little twin) in the well. We carried it for the dingy, but it would move my Ariel.... not winning any drag races with it though. Much easier to lift and stow, but probably not suited to cruising.
Hey Lou, Welcome
You can find the weight of various outboards here
http://www.nadaguides.com/default.as...r>c=ob&any=0
4-strokes tend to be heavier, but the Tohatsu/Nissan/Merc engines seem to be very light. The 4,5 and 6hp all weigh about 55+ lbs. That's probably about the same as your Johnson 6hp 2-stroke.
The 2.5 and 3.5hp Tohatsus weigh about 41+ lbs. Not a huge weight savings (although signifigant if you're trying to manhandle the thing on a pitching boat).
http://www.tohatsu.com/outboards/index.html
To get an engine around 30+ lbs you would probably need to find an older, small 2-stroke like Craig has
Thanks for the input. Looks like a 6hp. Tohatsu is in my future. I'll try just keeping it stowed over the summer until I need it. I would love to retro fit an inboard, but the cost would be more than I paid for the boat.
Thanks again,
Lou
Here is a bit from my experience on the issue of outboard performance addressing some of the most common issues brought-up on the board:
The 'Mephisto Cat' is a 'Well in the lazarette' / outboard model' from the factory. :) I am happy to not have to deal with an oily bilge! Although I could learn a thing or two about diesels... And I salivate a the big & handy storage space that is available in the lazarette to those of you with inboards... Hmmm... :(
I can only dream of the day when a nicely suited electric motor is available!
In any case; So far I've used a 2003 NISSAN 6HP, 4-stroke outboard engine with the long shaft (20”) on the Mephisto Cat. This NISSAN model, as well as some other brands (Mercury?), is apparently made by TOHATSU so they share the same mechanicals - only the marketing bits are different...
I’ve used this motor for a handful of seasons in San Francisco Bay, as well as at Marina del Rey (Santa Monica), and on coastal voyages from Ensenada, MX, to San Francisco as described in previous posts on the Mephisto Cat gallery thread: http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussi...ead.php?t=1552
The typical issues faced with outboards on Ariels & Commanders seem to be the following:
1.- Will the motor fit in the outboard well?
The 6 HP Nissan fits quite nicely in the well being able to rotate pretty much throughout its full range. The lazarette cover closes, clearing the top of the motor by two to three inches. (I am unsure if the internal tank version of this motor would fit as the internal fuel tank cap is located at the top of the motor cover, and sticks out at least a couple of inches...)
The bottom unit is thin & slender (unlike some other brand's models) allowing for an easy fit in the well (there are maybe 3" inches to spare around the widest part of the lower unit as you lower it thought the well...) The slenderness of the bottom unit also helps in reducing hydrodynamic resistance while sailing with the motor in the motor well – which I often do….
This motor only weighs 55lbs (Per Nissan) which makes it easier to handle. I think that this is the heaviest you can go while still being able to (relatively) easily handle an oddly shaped mass as an outboard motor - especially at the point where you are lowering it into / pulling out of the lazarette.
2.- How much power do you need to power an Ariel / Commander (HP)?
I find that this motor moves the boat quite well. It will cruise at about 4 to 4.5 knots at ¾ throttle, and will reach hull-speed (~6kt) at a bit less than full throttle.
While sailing in SF bay in the past, where the winds and currents are not to be ignored, I have found the need to use the full power of this motor while fighting a strong current, or while motoring into a channel with a strong wind on the nose.
While using the motor during coastal cruising, I found that when faced with strong winds on the nose - and the resulting long-reach wind swell - the going gets slow... Mostly because out in the open, the wind swells easily kill your forward momentum.
In these cases a bit more horsepower might help, but these are unusual circumstances for these boats. AND I would argue that if you find yourself in this situation at that point you’d be MUCH better off sailing-off with a reefed main and a storm headsail as this will improve your ride and likely progress as well, so the benefit of a bigger outboard in these cases may never be enjoyed… while you’d ALWAYS be burdened by the big outboard’s weight. **
However, in my time spent in coastal marinas, such as Marina del Rey / Santa Monica Bay where currents are negligible, I found myself wishing for a little (maybe 2-3 HP at most) two stroke motor that I could pull out in a jiffy… This would be more than enough to get in and out of the marina when the winds were blowing. If I were still in this environment, I’d definitely go with the tiny motor. If you are in a lake environment doing mostly daysailing, I'd really consider this route...
** As I've learned more about this issue, I found that the ideal solution in this case (from a hydrodynamic standpoint) is not really more horsepower, but rather a larger prop diameter at a lower pitch to increase efficiency of the available force... Providing what is known as increased 'bollard pull' -the equivalent of more torque in a car engine- with the same horsepower...
Unfortunately, these motors will not physically acommodate a prop much bigger than what comes from the factory...
3.- How fast will the boat go?
6HP will get you to hull speed in most conditions. There is no need for more horsepower. - 20HP will maybe give you hull speed PLUS maybe 1 or 2 knots more, PLUS a big bow wave in front of your boat… and this while using MUCH MORE Fuel. In short, there is no need… (unless, as I described above, you will be ONLY sailing against very strong winds in sheltered waters -with no wind swell. These conditions would allow you to enjoy the extra horsepower to fight the wind, but these conditions are unlikely…)
4.- Shaft length
My motor has the 20” long shaft. (Note: For 2009, Nissan is offering a 25” extra-long shaft.)
I found that the 20” long shaft works really well on these boats. The steepest swells faced were while motor sailing around Point Conception where we saw 8-10 ft ocean swells that were far apart enough to not present a problem (11-14 seconds). Big swells are not a problem for the motor, but when these swells are reflected by the concave coast between Point Conception and Point Arguello, and become 4-5 ft swells coming in opposing directions, plus toss in a 1-2 ft wind swell… All of these combining at random can present a tall chop which can be a challenge mostly for your comfort.
Even in these conditions the prop managed to stay in the water but did suck in some surface air for an instant a couple of times as the conditions above combined to produce a steep/deep chop. Note that when the cavitation happened, it was quire unexpected based on the behavior of the boat at the time, and never due to a severe pitch or roll - the prop seems to stay in the water while pitching /rolling. What seemed to do it was simply a very tall / steep chop, in my case, resulting from a combined wave/swell.
The cavitation was only for an instant causing the revs to increase, but only for an instant. I do not think that the motor had time to reach max revs. I do not think that cavitation is an issue for the 20" shaft lenght based on the amount of time that the motor had to work in these conditions...
In short; If I were in the market for a motor, I'd stick with the 20" version...
The 25” shaft would provide a bit more of a margin against the above situation, but most of us would not be in this stuff as a matter of routine… (hopefully!!). The down side of this extra length would be a bit of additional drag while sailing, a small bit of added weight, and the 5 extra inches increasing the required storage space.
Thoughts?
I'm interested if anybody bought the extra long shaft and how their experience was. Orca's 1990 Nissan 8 seems like it has coronary salt disease and is shutting down when you run it hard so I'm thinking of the Tohatsu 6 hp. Whatever my shaft length is now (NS8B1) it definitely has scared me in some serious chop by racing out of the water. I'd be interested in first hand experiences for the 25" and how it fits in the lazarette, if at all. I've kept mine in the water over the years as I end up using it quite a bit in Casco Bay and it seemed like a pain to lift it in and out. Also, I'm at a mooring so fresh water cleaning when you pull it out is not possible and I think that salt build up will happen quicker if your always pulling it out. I arrested the pitting of the case when the tiny donut zinc dies by drilling two holes in the captivation plate and attaching a big zinc I sawn in half. It seems to last more than a season. I'll have to get out to the mooring and measure the shaft if somebody doesn't know which shaft I have based on the model.
Thanks, Ed
I purchased the Nissan 6 horse four stroke motor for my Ariel, Augustine, a few years back. My boat operates in saltwater, so I remove the motor after each sail. I use the Garhauer Lifting Davit, which was installed as per the Ariel Manual. The davit is stored in a bow (as in a hunting bow) bag, which I keep in the V berth when it is not in use. The six-to-one ratio on this davit means that you are only lifting about 10 lbs when you raise and lower the 60 lb Nissan 6 hp motor. It's a one hand lifting job.
I also flush the motor after each use, unless I am on a multi-day voyage. To facilitate the flushing process, I installed a Yahama flushing apparatus that allows a quick connect/disconnect to a garden hose. Flushing is easy that way. The motor stows nicely in the lazarette locker, although you will need a block of some kind to keep the head of the motor higher than the prop when stowed.
By the way, don't go to sea with the motor stowed in the lazarette locker. I know someone who did this. Not a good idea to have the motor head down in a locker full of salt water when you are on a starboard tack. I just leave the motor in the water while I sail. It helps to have some neoprene to protect the leading edge of well where the motor attaches, and to insure that the motor does not rock back and forth and come loose from the leading edge of the well when under sail in rough conditions at sea. Some brave souls remove their motors and stow them in the cabin. I have pulled a motor at sea with my lifting davit to replace a prop, but the installed davit is in the path of the boom, so this should be attempted only at rest or at peril.
The long shaft motor operates well in all conditions, but I rarely run the thing at sea. I primarily use it to get under the bridge and out of the harbor. I only had the motor aerate on me once when I struck the bar while in a trough when I was surfing into the harbor here one late autumn day a few years back. The boat stopped cold when it hit the bar, and the stern rose up through the breaking wave so that the prop was for a few seconds out of the water. Then the wave lifted Augustine off the bar. That was at night, so it was pretty exciting for a few seconds.
Thanks Scott, I assume this is the 20" long shaft?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Galloway
I've not been in the habit of removing my motor as being on a mooring I have no access to freshwater for flushing.
When I first started sailing my boat some 12 years ago, I recall the lazerette often filling with water. It hasn't happened much since then. I can't think of what might have changed. I have one of the outboard motor plugs that came with the Ariel but I've not used it much.
Thanks, Ed
I didn't get any response so I'll assume that means nobody who has followed the thread bought the 25" shaft version. I ordered one so I'll let folks how it fit etc. Thanks, Ed
Does any one have a spare outboard plug?
Mike Godwin posted fabricating these one time , Did that ever materialize?
Thanks
No one (including me) with the 20" shaft has reported cavitation that I recall. The 20" shaft fits in the Lazy-rat.... not sure if the 25" would. Any longer shaft then the 20 just gives more drag when sailing, so I am not sure why anyone would want it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orca
My experience with my prior (20") yamaha tells me that 20" is all you are ever going to need.
I have not run a 25" shaft so I have no first hand experience but can not see where you would gain anything but drag. If you do not take advantage of the motors ability to pivot when backing and rely on prop wash over the rudder you may see some improvement in backing.
I hope it works out well for you.
Well, the weather finally settled a bit here so I took the Nissan 6 HP extra long shaft (25 inch) down to the mooring today and installed it. I checked and it fits sideways in the lazarette just fine. I found that the top of the motor barely cleared the top of the lazarette which makes me wonder if the mounting board is higher than other boats as somebody previously reported 2 or three inches of clearance. I think I have less than 1/2 inch clearance.. I intend to visit Orca in the AM and motor around a bit. I think its a bit noisier at low speeds than the 8 HP I took out and it isn't as smooth because it is a single cylinder and the old engine was two cylinder. I'll report back on how it handles with the prop around 10 inches more underwater after I use it a bit.
Very Best, Ed
Hi: After using it a bit I can tell you the following. The 6 HP 4 cycle is quieter than my 8 hp 2 stroke Nissan but not quite as fast into the wind. It does seem to do something close to 6 knots when its calm (I'll have to wait a bit to try duing a slack tide as I rely on the GPS which showed a range of 4.8 to 6.5 knots over the ground). The clearance is less than 1/2 an inch on my boat and seems to touch the top of the lazarett when under load. The lazy rat buggered up the top of the motor a little so I now jimmy it open a little when running. My old motor was a 15 inch shaft. It had some issues in rough seas and was pretty much useless if a bigger person went up on the bow. For my money I think the 25" shaft is good insurance for some of the high chop that develops around here in the river mouths like the Kennebec where closely spaced, steep 5' or larger standing waves are a regular occurance . . . I suspect that 5" additional shaft would not be enough. The extra depth makes it a lot easier to back the boat down. The fuel economy is very good. After a few hours (mostly at 3/4 throttle or less) the little tank is still showing mostly full. I'm glad to see that the fuel connection on the motor has been reconfigured. I had to buy several of the old connections on the Nissan before I found one that worked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orca
Thanks, Ed
My Nissan 6 hp long shaft motor also has a clearance of about 1/23 inch. I use a Garhauer lifting davit to lift it into place. The Davis OB lifting strap that I use to lift the motor has a somewhat round cover that joins the two sections of the webbed straps. With that approximately 1 inch round addition added to the motor height, the lazarette barely closes and latches with some pressure, but then again, I don't normally latch the locker when under sail. Incidentally it was a great 10 to 12 knot sail out over the Submarine Canyon on Monterey Bay yesterday.
To continue on with comments on the 6 hp four strokes all made by Tohatsu, I've had mine running since 2004 and have some comments on maintenance. Everyone knows by now that its a good idea to drain or run excess Ethanol 10% gas out of the carb if you aren't going to use the outboard every two weeks or so. Gas stabil is almost a must because the ethanol absorbs water. Over the years, I've found that the common reason my motor wouldn't start or idle well is bacause of clogged jets from fuel. In Houston, with 95 degree temps every day in the summer, it doesn't take long to evaporate all the fuel and leave the gunk behind in the carb. I've cured any problems by disassembling the carb and soaking in carb cleaner. I've found that the spray cans don't do a complete job. However, I recently found that hard starting and engine dying was because of an ignition problem---- not dirty carb issues. I used a spark tester and found I wasn't getting a spark on each pull of the starter roper. I got out the Tohatsu factory manual (the real deal which I purchased from Defender) and tested the resistance of the ignition coil, the exciter coil (which sits under the flywheel) and the pulser coil-- which is at the edge of the flywheel under the starter rope hole. Most of the coil resistance tests allow a plus or minus 20% reading from the factory spec, and still be good. But my exciter coil was off spec. The exciter coil generates the low voltage current, sends it to the CD unit (that little black box with all the wires leading to it). The CD unit stores this energy until its told by the pulser coil that its time to fire the plug. The CD then sends voltage to the ignition coil (roundish black epoxy coated coil connected to the spark plug wire) which then steps up the voltage to fire the plug. The factory resistance of the exciter is supposed to be 119 ohm plus or minus 20%. Mine was reading 78. So there was a developing short somewhere in that coil, and it wasn't generating enough voltage at low rpm or, most importantly, when I pulled on the starter rope! I put in a new coil (they are about $30) an now the motor starts on first or second pull-- like when it was new. The hardest part of this job was getting the flywheel off. You can read online on how to do this properly. You can mess up the flywheel and do some real damage if you don't use the right tools. With the right tools, its easy.
As you engine ages, and it starts getting harder to start and idles less reliably, check you coils. I didn't think modern coils failed very frequently, but my experience shows that they can and do.
Has anyone successfully figured out a way to add a more significant zinc to these motors?
The fingernail sized one they come with seems to last about 15 minutes or so...
The zincs have lasted several years on my 5hp, but then I don't leave the engine in the well except when motoring . . .
I ordered a Tohatsu 6 pitch 8" diameter High Thrust prop that Tohatsu makes for the 4/5/6 hp four cycles. I was using a 7" pitch which is less pitch than the standard prop that ships with these outboards. The high thrust propeller is the same one that they put on the so called saildrive version of these small four strokes. The results with the new elephant ear low pitch prop are very good and I'm happy I spent the $69 for it.
1. Low end is much better at driving the boat
2. There is far less hesitation when throttling up when the outboard goes between the low speed and high speed jets. I think this is because there is less resistance with the High Thrust prop which allows faster increase in RPMs than the 7 or 8 inch pitch.
3. The outboard is achieving higher RPMs at all throttle settings, especially at the top end. With the old props, it always sounded as if my 6hp was "lugging" and not getting up to 5,000+ RPMs. Now the lugging sound is gone.
4. The wide open throttle has now gone from 6.0-6.1 mph to 6.3 mph. So no loss of speed, slight improvement, but without the lug on the engine and without the hesitation and potential stalling that happens with the old props.
This is embarassing. Thought I was doing everything right.
Laid boat up on hard a year ago after the trip to the Bahamas. Flushed and drained motor, ran it dry. Left it in place but wrapped lower unit. Took out plug squirted in oil and put back plug. Now I'm getting ready to relaunch.
Here's problem; motor turns, but with difficulty. Is it just that the oil i put in is turgid [I think that's the right word.]? Should I drain oil, put in some diesel or kerosene, turn it over by hand to flush thickened oil see if that loosens things up.
The motor is only three seasons old so I don't need to take it apart...unless what's making it hard to turn is rust, in which case I assume there's some risk of scoring moving parts and causing unecessary wear. Anyone been there? Have advice. Thanks Maikel
I don't think you did a bad thing at all, are you trying to turn the engine over with the sparkplug in?? If so, remove plug and spin the engine and let the oil squirt out the plug hole. Put a few squirts of Marvel Mystery oil in the cylinder , let it soak for a short period and again spin engine letting that exit the plug hole and you should be fine.
Had plug out when i tried to start it. Didn't put in enough oil for it to squirt out plug hole. Motor turns, but not freely/fast enough to start. MM oil is good idea.
also do not forget to clean the oil off of the spark plug. The oil will not allow the motor to fire if left on the insulator.
I've been using the Tohatsu 0utboard 6 HP long shaft for two years now in the S.F Bay and Half Moon Bay areas. It'll push Ad Astra, Ariel #75 at 3 knots dead into a 25 knot wind. More than adequate power and astounding fuel efficiency. One caution: the pull-to-start cord has a plastic T shaped handle. Inside that plastic is a V shaped metal insert through which the pull cord is run with a half-hitch stopper knot on the bitter end. The hole in the metal insert is stamped and has a sharp edge. The condition of the pull cord at the bitter end is invisible since it's tucked away inside the handle. Mine cut through the pull cord after a few dozen pulls -- leaving me holding the T handle whilst the pull cord went "zing!" and wrapped itself back inside the engine. Very inconvenient. I replaced the T handle with a piece of wooden dowel with a hole drilled in the middle so I can now see and inspect the bitter end of the pull cord. That configuration has lasted several hundred pulls with no signs of wear.
When installing the engine in the engine port, if the engine is offset to the starboard side and you tilt it just a little as it goes in, you will snap off the gear select lever, which is just a piece of plastic press fitted to a short metal shaft. I installed vice grips on the gear select shaft (which will rotate out of the way if pressed upward) and that has worked fine for two years.
I leave the engine in the water - after calculating that a new engine is cheaper than either back surgery or contraptions like a lifting davit. The drive shaft has survived two years of immersion in salt water!
If you find the engine deflects water into the engine compartment while under way due to it tilting in the water flow, attach anchor chain around the drive shaft that's fastened to the engine port. If the engine climbs up the mounting board, install a piece of aluminum bar stock across the outer forward top of the engine port to prevent the mounting plate from climbing. Those mods made peace between me and the engine.
I just purchased a tohatsu 20" sailmaster. Fingers crossed! Ill report back when I have used it a few times. It seemed to be the best deal, and it will charge batteries while running. I see the 20" version of the sailmaster was not offered in the nissan badge. If they are the same engine, I wonder why it is available in one brand and not the other?
To those that already own this engine, how good is the charging system using basic necessities? Example, vhf, gps, led cabin lights, anchor light.
> To those that already own this engine, how good is the charging system using basic necessities? Example, vhf, gps, led cabin lights, anchor light.Beware: the output is unregulated half-wave (uni-polarity) AC. If you look at the output of a typical outboard generator on an oscilloscope, it's half wave pulses that peak around 18 volts. Unless that model is more sophisticated than most - the generator is intended to power incandescent running lights on a skiff that's underway at night - not sensitive electronics like radios and GPS receivers. Incandescent bulbs are rather insensitive to the non-uniform current, and their filaments stay hot when the voltage dips to zero for tens of milliseconds at a time (which is why they work as well on AC as DC current).
LED lights that are rated to handle 24 volts or more (most these days have regulators to allow dual 12/24 volt power) will probably tolerate the spiky voltage, but you won't like the flicker you'll get at low RPMs, without a battery to smooth the voltage. For powering ONLY LED lights (not electronics) you could use an electrolytic capacitor in place of a battery to stop the flickering, but to be effective at low RPMs, it would have to be huge.
While it can be used for short duration and occasional charging of a battery that is large enough to absorb and smooth out the pulses (multiply the generator's rated output current by 10 - you need a battery of at least that many amp hours), be VERY careful that no situation can ever exist where the battery becomes disconnected so it is no longer regulating the voltage spikes and the generator is powering sensitive electronic systems directly. If it ever does - you may have a very expensive smoke generator, or at least a mysterious source of failing electronics. Transistors don't like transient voltage spikes. Also, you will only get the rated output current when the engine is running at top RPM (in neutral) and making a sound that will likely drive you nuts.
I'd also suggest installing a fuse at the battery terminal rated for the full output current of the generator on the lead from the generator. The generator should have a fuse inside the engine, but if the wiring becomes shorted along the run downstream between that fuse and the battery, there's nothing to limit the battery output current.
If you want to verify what I'm saying and you don't have an oscilloscope: get an 8 ohm speaker you don't care about ruining, connect a 100 ohm 1 watt resistor in series with either speaker terminal (to limit the current), and then connect the generator output to the speaker through the series resistor. Start the engine and listen. If it's DC, the speaker cone will just move one way or the other once and not produce any sound. Instead, what you'll probably hear will sound like a playing card running through the pokes of a bicycle, with the pitch varying with engine RPM.
Have the same motor in Louise Michel. Took out an old Gray Marine inboard that came with boat. What a nasty job that was. Haven't regretted it once. Have about a thousand hours on the engine, including an eight month trip to Bahamas -Norfolk to Miami, down the ICW, eight hours a day, day after day, that little motor ran like a top.
I have the charging system but haven't used it. Instead we use a 80W solar panel mounted on a raised stern pulpit, with a 15A contoller and two 90AH deep cycle batteries. Powers cabin lights [ some incandescent, some led], running lights when needed, VHF [not always on], GPS. Run laptop, battery chargers [AA, cordless drill etc] and FM radio via a small inverter. Anchor light is a rechargeable lantern hung on boom.
Doubt you'd be able to power all the items you list, about what I have, from engine charger without running it just to recharge batteries but you have to do the math...add up all the items times hours of use, figure in the formulas for inefficiencies, rate of discharge etc.
So what is the unregulated charger good for? I could get a charge controller or just use the system as an occasional battery charger. I could isolate 2 batteries with a solenoid that is only engaged to the house system when I want it to be while monitoring the charge. I don't plan on motoring much, it is a sailboat. I still feel I did well even if I don't ever if rarely use the charge feature, because I got the high thrust prop and that has made up or broke even in cost. What would you do with the charging system? I can not find out how much oil goes in this thing anywhere. The owners manual covers what type but not the amount. How much oil goes in the engine? How much and what kind of oil goes in the lower end? Its not even stamped or written on the engine anywhere.
Is there any reason not to install the (semi permanent) steering lock on this motor? As mentioned in my intro I am new to sailing. Last week I was out practicing docking when the motor slipped loose thus causing a few hair raising moments for me at my new marina. With the exception of losing the ability to use it for maneuvering tight quarters I think it would be fine. And in the remote chance of losing the rudder it does unbolt easy enough. I used the search function and did not turn up anything salient to my inquiry. Thanks.
I installed a strut from the lazarette wall to the front of the motor. The strut bolted to the motor handle with a wing nut so it could be quickly detached [in close quarters, especially going in reverse, we 'steered, by turning the motor]. The other end of the strut was simply clamped to a flange to allow for adjustments.
PS.The wing bolt on the back of the motor is there to adjust friction not clamp the motor in place.
The only practical way to steer while moving astern is to steer with the engine. The ability to spin the engine around in its port to assist in steering is a great advantage over the inboard version of Ariels. None of the Alberg designed boats were designed to show finesse and grace while backing up. And while the Ariel - with her modified full keel - has a tighter turning radius than a battle ship while moving forward; in the close quarters of a marina, you may need to hasten her turns by twisting the engine. You want some resistance/friction to the engine's uncommanded turning in the port, but not so much friction that you can't turn the engine at all. When the eventuality arises that you need a really tight turn, it will be an emergency, and any delays may result in a collision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caferacer59
Ariels have a great deal of yaw stability, i.e., resistance to turning. That is a wonderful feature in sharp ocean swells where they track like a train on rails, but not so good in a tight marina.
The biggest problem, at least with my Nissan Sailpro, is it's tilting while underway. The long shaft dragging in the water causes it to tilt way back, and to such an extent that the pull-to-start handle is buried out of reach, you can't shift into reverse gear from neutral, and the shaft angle contributes to shipping water into the boat. I found no way to correct this -- until I resorted to installing a piece of anchor chain across the shaft to prevent the behavior. Apparently Nissan thinks an engine that's marketed for use on sailboats still needs to tilt freely to prevent damage from a grounding -- as if it were installed on a dingie. The tilt "feature" is worthless on an Ariel, and I presume all other sailboats where the propeller isn't lower in the water than the boat's keel.
The only situation I can envision where the tilt feature would be helpful is when running over a crab pot line where it slips under the keel and then gets stuck on the forward surface of the engine shaft. And the engine still can't tilt back far enough to free the line. I have a knife on a pole ready for that situation. It's also good for fending off pirates ;-)
The friction on my nissan o/b never really worked well... I eliminated the issue completely by installing a couple of tiny dinghy cam cleats with fairleads on small blocks of teak and I then epoxied this onto the bulkhead - One each on each side of the motor. I ran small 1/8" or 3/16" lines with a stopper knot through the holes on the o/b 'handle' and into these cams via the fairlead. It worked like a charm...
This Secured the motor straight as an arrow, but it could also be released completely in a fraction of a second when needed. The lines came off tthe motor for starage right away as they were only help by the stopper knot - I highly recomment this route.
I'll look for some pictures to post... I'm pretty sure I took some at some point... I must have!
Rico: Photos, photos, please . . .
Thanks for the thoughtful responses. I think I will throw a few wing nuts on the engine locking bolts, that should allow enabling of the motor in a pinch. (Written from a slightly larger ship heading south and skippered by a mouse named Mickey) hmm. Taking one for the team.
Rather than a knife on a pole - I suggest using a boathook and a knife from your pocket. That way we can re-tie the crabpot lines back together after freeing ourselves while not screwing the owner out of making a living or doom generations of crabs to a useless death.
PHM
-------
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbryant
Pulling the crab pot line aboard, up through my engine port, in ocean swells, or dangling myself in swells over the stern while trying to snag the line with a boat hook, while the crab pot acts as an anchor (requiring hauling the boat astern to the crab pot - provided the pot doesn't haul me overboard first) can be a difficult and dangerous process. And no, I am not going to try to back down on a line astern with the engine in ocean swells - while hauling it aboard through the engine port just inches away from my prop. As much as I might like fishermen, I'm not going to try to haul the line around to the bow or risk falling overboard or an entanglement with my prop.
I don't mind saving the fisherman's pot if I can do so without risking my life. Provided the crab pot isn't placed in a marked navigation channel, in which case it's as much a vessel trap as it is a crab trap. I have seen many of those around Half Moon Bay. Some clearly abandoned with what looks like years of overgrowth on the floats, meaning there's nothing but crab skeletons inside the traps. Archaeologists will be studying those non-biodegradable floats and line in a thousand years. There should be a maximum amount of time pots can be left in place, after which, people should be encouraged to pull up the abandoned traps, and if they are stuck on the bottom (which is probably why they were abandoned) to cut the lines. Maybe a bounty on cut and turned in abandoned traps and floats would help clean up the mess. By the way, the California Fish and Game code states that crab pots not serviced, or placed in a navigation channel, are a public nuisance.
The environmental laws prohibit discarding plastic in the ocean. Some of those (plastic) floats and (plastic) lines are clearly discarded. And the people who abandon them without removing as much of them as they can (at least the floats) - aren't fishing - they are littering.
As I write this, recreational season for Dungeness crab doesn't start until Nov. 1st, and commercial season doesn't start until Nov. 15th. There shouldn't be any crab pots anywhere. But take a cruise around Half Moon Bay, and you'll find enough of out-of-season pots to turn your cruise into a slalom course.
Maybe someday the technology and requirements will have lights attached to the floats so they can be seen at night. Meanwhile, there is nothing preventing fishermen from applying retroreflective tape to the floats - if they really care about vessels avoiding them at night.
I have a Nissan 6 HP outboard (model NSF6). There are two annoyances that I resolved.
1) The Ariel's engine mount, a block of wood, allows the engine to slide up that block and pop off it entirely. It is very unpleasant to have the engine flopping around loose under power. In reverse gear, I’ve had it fly up and nearly slap me in the face. Even though there are deep divots that have been worn into the wood by the mounting clamps, to prevent movement, the clamps still have to be torqued down so hard using tools to prevent slippage, that they eventually break. And swells pushing upward against the engine lower shaft eventually loosen the clamps and walk the engine off the wooden block regardless of how severely the clamps are tightened.
I solved this problem by installing a stainless steel bar across the top of the engine port mount. Carefully measured to allow the round clamp pads just enough clearance to pass under the bar when the engine is installed, the bar retains the engine while allowing only very slight movement, and I can install the engine and remove it (which I do after each sail) without torquing the mounts excessively. When the clamps inevitably loosen after a long sail, I only have to reach in and give the clamps another twist. The engine stays put.
Attachment 9380Attachment 9381
2) The Nissan has a “feature” that allows the lower shaft to tilt back when the engine is in forward gear. Referring to the attached drawing, the reverse lock arm (32) engages the thrust rod (12), but only in reverse and neutral gears.
Attachment 9383
In forward gear, the engine is allowed to tilt back freely. This is a useful feature on a skiff that prevents prop damage when the skiff is run up on a beach, referred to in marketing material as a "Shallow Water Drive." But the free-tilting behavior is completely useless on a vessel where the prop is higher than the keel and will never strike the ground (you’d have to back into something to strike the prop). Plus, the tilt range in the Ariel is too limited to be of any value – only a few degrees before the engine cowl slams into the forward wall of the engine compartment (damaging the cowl).
This free-tilting behavior becomes a major annoyance when you discover that, after raising sail, your speed through the water causes the engine to tilt and force the cowl (engine cover) against the compartment wall when you select idle thrust while in forward gear, and that there is no practical way to restore the engine to vertical besides stopping the boat.
When docking, it becomes a major hazard when you try to go repeatedly from forward to reverse. If you have any forward speed, the engine will never return to a vertical position because the lower shaft is dragging through the water. As you throttle down in forward to switch gears, the engine will tilt aft. When you select reverse, the reverse lock arm can't engage because of the aft tilt, and the engine consequently slams and see-saws back and forth in the engine port.
The kind folks at Svedsen’s solved this problem for me. Referring to the attached photo, they removed the semi-circular swashplate (area marked in orange) so the push rod end (circled in red) cannot engage the reverse lock arm to move it out of the locked position. They then welded a cross piece (marked in green) to the top of the reverse lock arm. Alex in the chandlery came up with this solution. The engine now remains locked in the vertical position in all gears. The modification can be reversed by installing an original reverse lock arm.
Attachment 9382
And with a team of Navy divers, I might have accomplished that. If you watch my video (link below), you'll see my predicament. There was:Quote:
Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey
- At least 100 pounds of tension on the line trying to pull my engine down through the engine port into the sea. The swells were adding shock loads that were way beyond anyone's ability to pull the engine up out of the port. I would have broken my strongest gear trying to haul the engine up against the shock loads. The crab pot float was jammed between the anti-cavitation plate and the prop.
- Ocean swells were boarding my stern. I was effectively "anchored by the stern in swells." Boats sink that way from waves boarding astern.
- I had no way to reach the line, or even see it.
- The line went vertically down into the water, so it could not be accessed from any angle over either side or the transom.
I'd been bobbing around for over an hour with swells boarding my stern, pooping the cockpit, while trying every other method to access the line, including keel-hauling a line from the bow to grab the line (the swells just forced the line forward of the stern).
It was now sunset. With daylight nearly gone, what would you have done?
And for the record, I don't believe I cut the line, but instead impaled the float with my knife and forced it to slip under the engine shaft, as the video shows. Since there were two floats on the line, the fisherman should still have been able to retrieve it. Not that it would be worth very much, after I dragged it half a mile across the bottom.
Crab season ends June 30th. Until then, I'm going to add a tree trimmer (http://www.harborfreight.com/media/c...mage_17978.jpg) to my gear. This happened in very mild swell conditions - 3 to 4 foot swells. If it had been the usual 8 foot swells that I sail in, I could have lost my boat from waves boarding astern. I've spent $600 on LED lights placed on my bow to spot crab pots at night. I've done my part. But it's a mine field out there! And I see very few crab pot floats with reflective tape on them. Apparently the fishermen don't care enough about losing pots to add $1 worth of reflective tape. I do care about losing my boat and my life.
https://youtu.be/Nj8oXKjRZxE
Holy Moley! You are freaking MacGyver, Paul! I'm further impressed that your GoPro didn't record a river of expletives to go along with your quick thinking fix. Glad you're OK.
Attachment 9533
Yup, the first one eroded very quick a (about 2 months) and then the bolt broke off trying to change it, then I drilled through the plate with a bigger one that was sacrificial enough, so I ended up ruining the lower end. Tohatsu 6hp long shaft #1.
Above was in reference to the the question some time ago about the zinc. In a more general review of the Tohatsu/Nissan/Merc 6 HP I will say that they seem to have really small jets and I am having trouble keeping the motor running more than 4 weeks. I started the season with new gas after having had the engine serviced for trouble last season. I treated with Stabil Marine and within 4 weeks the carb was clogged with white mush. I cleaned it a few times and used Sea Foam. It started running again but 4 weeks later it was so clogged that I took it to a marina along with the line and the tank. They pronounced my gas fine, cleaned the carb and now 4 weeks later the carb bowl has white mush in it again and the motor wan't run. The marina talked me out of using aviation 100 low lead saying it would clog the rings but if I get that thing going I'm switching to ave gas and if that fails I'll sell that and move on. Which which other motors fit because I've had enough of this one? I didn't have much time to use it so basically this ruined the season. I've had guests waiting on board the last few times which we aborted when the motor wouldn't run. Basically we can't make a motor on its third season run more than occasionally. I'm going to take the carb off the old tohatsu with the ruined lower unit and try to make it to the marina to pull out for the season. AAAGH!
Zincs, aluminum OB's, white mush.
White mush could be aluminum oxide,
or corroded aluminum mush.
Maybe yer zincs aren't working,
or missing, or too small, or too large.
Zinc is in place and neither I nor the marina could remove it last month (it is the little square one that is OEM) because it had swollen a bit in the square recess but was still present and when I scraped it it still has some meat. They said we'd try to remove it at the end of the season, basically next week. Maybe it is corroded aluminum mush. It is in the aluminum carburetor after all.
Be sure to disconnect the fuel tank line from the engine at the end of the day and allow the engine to run until the bowl is emptied and the engines stops from fuel starvation. The owner's manual actually recommends this. The procedure accomplishes two things: it allows the engine some cool-down time to reduce thermal shock and -- more importantly, it empties the carb bowl so the fuel doesn't evaporate in the bowl every time you run the engine and eventually develop a residue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orca
100 "low lead" ("100LL") av gas should really be called: 100 lots of lead. It has more lead than leaded car gas once had. It will foul your plug. Yes, 10% ethanol gas will absorb water, but I doubt the water content is causing the fouling.
I only ran the motor twice after the carb was serviced and I ran it dry. I disconnected the fuel line and tank and put them down below on the cabin sole in case water was permeating the line or something. I've been running 100LL in my scooter for about a month, I'll pull the plug and see what it looks like. Quite honestly if 100LL cut the life of my motor by 30% I'd never notice it. I seems like it would last a real long time never running which is the present situation. A plug would be easy to change, carb, not so much. I did think of keeping an extra carb on board though as its a real pain in the butt to load that motor into a dinghy from my mooring and row it to the beach.Quote:
Originally Posted by pbryant
I installed a "Racor SNAPP One-Piece Snap-In Fuel Filter Water Separator - Filter Assembly w/ Bracket & Drain - 2 Micron" between the fuel tank and the engine two years ago. It has a clear bowl that allows you to see if any water has accumulated. Pilots will know this device as a "gasculator." They're common on most airplanes. I have yet to see one drop of water in the inspection bowl. But it made me feel good to install it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orca
The engine problems I had were:
1) I failed to recognize that after the engine is shut down while bouncing around in swells that the fuel would run down hill out of the carb bowl back to the tank - making me pull the cord about 10 times before the fuel pump would refill the bowl. Solution: squeeze the primer bulb until it's "stiff" before restarting the engine.
2) Since my fuel tank is slightly below the carb bowl, fuel doesn't feed the carb by gravity. The fuel pump MUST be able to draw against a partial vacuum to be effective, and... I wasn't getting an air tight seal where the fuel line connects to the tank. Solution: clean the connection at the fuel tank regularly with a wire (bronze) brush.
3) The fuel cap was a fancy CARB (California) approved type that required a partial vacuum in the tank before the air vent would open. That vacuum was too great to allow fuel to flow. Apparently, California thinks a few fuel molecules evaporating out of the tank is a major source of pollution. I discovered this after the engine died about a dozen times -- always obeying Murphy's Law by failing at the harbor entrance, near rocks, while crossing in front of big boats, or on final approach to my slip, -- and I finally saw the sides of the plastic tank pop out when I removed the fuel cap - along with a loud whooshing sound when air rushed into the tank. Temporary solution: screw the cap on very loosely. Permanent Solution: Find an old-style cap that fits the tank that has a simple non-pressure controlled vent (please don't report me to the CARB).
I have about 300 hours on my engine, using 90 octane / 10% ethanol fuel (it does seem to like 90 more than 87 octane - but that might be my imagination), and I've had no problems yet besides the problems above that someone smarter than me would've spotted sooner. I always let the engine run out of fuel at idle throttle at the end of every sail.
I've been fighting the ethanol fuel issues for several years now . I was happy to see that Tohatsu now has a new 5 hp/6 horse power propane fueled engine similar to the gasoline powered one in all respects. Since it was designed based on the same motor that we all have and love, it shouldn't have the mechanical issues of the LEHR propane engines which are cheaply manufactured in China. I don't know – – it looks like they made the tiller 5 inches longer which means it may not fit in our well anymore! The dimensions look exactly the same as the models most of us have however, the length from the back of the Motor cowling to the very front tip of the tiller goes from 26 inches to 31 inches, 5 inches more. And this isn't just on this propane model, it's on all the models and it looks like they have increased length of the tiller. Hmmmm. If the tiller only rotates as far back as my current motor does that would leave a couple inches of the tiller sticking up preventing closure of the lid to the well. If I were to try to put one of these motors into the well with the tiller facing into the cockpit and sticking through the opening instead of vertically, that may be hard to do or maybe impossible. I guess I'll have to see . Anyone have one of the new models with the longer tiller? How does it fit? These motors are very reliable mechanically. But I'm afraid that the gasoline we have to put in them causes us to have to take exceptional actions to keep them running reliably .
Carl Alberg designs are legendary for their steering instability while motoring slowly astern. Will it go port or starboard? Toss a coin!
One of the great features of having an outboard in a well is the ability to rotate it for steerage while motoring astern at very low speed. Tightening the rotation friction on the engine to prevent it from wandering around while motoring forward prevents rotation in reverse. So, if you use this friction adjustment, you must reset it constantly. And at least with my engine, the friction can't be set tightly enough to stop wandering while underway.
If grease from the rotation housing ever contaminates the friction adjustment, the adjustment becomes completely ineffective.
Here's photo of how I solved the problem.
Attachment 10280