Dropping the mast by hand

Have any of you non-tabernacled A/C owners done this?

The yard where #370 is located is wanting $570 :eek: to load the boat onto a trailer - almost $400 of that is for the demasting alone. ($145 for a crane, $250 for a Licensed Rigger :confused: to stand by...)

I'm thinking to splash the boat, and with the help of a couple friends, drop the mast elsewhere, by hand. I sure hope that we can do that without a Licensed Rigger... ;)

I've dropped my CP23 mast by myself, in the slip. It has a small tabernacle at the base of the mast, where I don't see that same thing on an Ariel, so one would have to worry about/deal with the mast base kicking out. Some line should take care of that, and with 3 of us there, I don't see any reason its not doable by hand.

Can anyone point me to a thread with a picture which shows how the mast base is set onto/connected to the step?

From what I've seen, it looks like the mast has a protuding lump on the base which fits into a notch shaped in the mase step. Is this right?

Thanks!

It sure seems outrageous, doesn't it.

Sure, cranes are exspensive to buy or lease or what ever, and I guess if it's a licensed rigger they they gotta get paid a fair market value. There's probably some sort of liability they have to cover. It's almost conceivable that 500+, hard earned bucks is justifiable. Or else it's *#!#*near larceny!

This link came up some time ago. It might help. I'm thinking about some contraption that is lightweight, easily breaks down for storage and has rigging for stepping and unstepping the big stick attached. And I bet we can build it for $146 or less.

http://pearsoninfo.net/26/unstepping...ast_photos.htm

That is a P26 and not an Ariel but you'll get the picture.

Good luck and congrats. Tony G

"From what I've seen, it looks like the mast has a protruding lump on the base which fits into a notch shaped in the mase step. Is this right?" Yes.

In my limited experience unstepping the mast, three of us used a dock mounted crane at low tide and attached lines around the mast at the spreaders and then lifted. It was then the fun started as the mast base wanted to change places with the mast head :eek: And oh yes, the mast was a lot heavier than anticipated :o

Let me tell you guys what I did this fall. My marina removed the poles and block and tackle that we had used for years and I wanted to bring my boat home. So I had to rent a crane or enlist a couple friends, which I did. We rafted three boats together, mine in the center, used their halyards, and lowered my mast to deck. Piece of cake and most importantly SAFE.
Jim

Around here a good price to unstep the mast is $6 a foot of mast (30').

The problem is the boat is already out of the water. The boatyard probably can't unstep the mast using their normal procedure. I don't know how much you would save paying to splash the boat, then paying another boatyard to unstep the mast and haul the boat again.

To do it yourself you have to rig something higher than the spreaders to lift the mast straight up a bit--like that ladder. I've also seen pictures of A-frame arrangements.

The mast only weighs about 80 lbs., but its clumsy. The real danger is somebody taking a header off the boat to the pavement below. Not good.

Here's a pic of the bottom of the mast. Those two "keys" fit into the slot of the mast step.

Looks like Ballenger's hinge costs about ONE unstepping of a 100# mast.

Whatz that..... $2 a pound? $6.50 a foot? Like the gas prices, you think the yard is going to get cheaper?

Besides being an extremely strong device, you get the convenience of a builtin turning block organizer. Commanders would have to make a larger pad like the Ariels have, I think, but there's nothing wrong in spreading the load on the deck a little wider. The hinge is 1/2" (closed, mast up) that would have to be allowed for.

So there is some fiddling that has to be done. AND IT WOULD BE THE GREATEST IF SOMEBODY TOOK PICTURES OF THEIR REFIT OF THE MASTSTEP AND RIGGING AND POSTED IT RIGHT HERE FOR THE REST OF US CHICKENS. blok blokblok BLOCK!

Thanks for all the replies, ideas, and advice. I think I'll wind up back at my original plan, which was to bring her down by water in another month or two (wah!). For what it would cost to trailer, I figure I can put new wire and Stayloks on her, all the way around. :)

That ladder-crane is a really neat idea, thanks for posting the link! I may end up using that method in the yard down here.

I'm glad I finally got to see how the mast stays in place on deck - I'd been wondering that. How long are those tabs on the mast foot? Judging from pics and from what I saw on #248's base, I'd guess an inch or so?

I'll definitely get one of the Ballinger organizer-tabernacle-base-thingamajigs for when I restep the mast, post-deck recore.

Thanks again, everyone!

I have stepped 54' masts using the boats alongside's method, it works , go slow and have 5 or 6 people available.
Also, shear legs work too , if you know how to rig them.
Another trick is a bucket truck or 'cherry picker', the mast isn't that heavy.

a few other ideas if there is a near by bridge you can get next to without much current or boat trafic

once the mast is down get a double plate double hinged step
should be under $50 as they were $30 some years ago when I bought mine

or build a proper tabernacal out of SS or heavy alloy or even steel if you like to paint
two triangles about a foot by 18" and a bottom
and a big SS bolt for a pivot pin
should cost less than a $100 + welding
even in SS if you can buy scrap SS localy

then you can rase or lower singlehanded on a whim

I would like to hear about the mast lowering as well. Kuan Yin (268) needs to be restepped, and I'd rather do it at the marina without time factors on how long it is taking. BTW anyone in the Bay Area know a good place to pickup a new/have one made step ??

Berkeley Marina:
I was there last week checking out my new ride/float. Some of the spaces between the docks are small, but for an Ariel should be no problem to get out of a slip and turn. Clean place.

Fee: The rate on the slip for the I-29 I'm getting is 185.oo per month.

Looks like there is lots of interest in unstepping mast, so I will briefly describe my procedure and then later I will put together something more detailed. Sorry I didn't get any good pics, I had full intentions of taking lots of pictures, but I only had a couple hands helping, so I was too busy.
Disclaimer:The mast is fairly heavy, so use this method at your own risk, if careful attention to detail while rigging is maintained, you or your helpers could definitely take a fatal knock on the head and or damage your or another boat.
I would reccomend at least two people for this job, 3-4 is optimum to have lots of eyes on the job. Also if possible move your boat to an area away from other boats to avoid the risk of damage.
You will need:
1. A strong, stable ladder about 20'. The top rung of the ladder needs to be at least 15-20 inches above the spreaders when placed. I made the mistake of having too short a ladder and it created some difficulties. The base of the ladder was placed on top of the cabin. If the legs of the ladder are not wide enough to go outside of the hatch sliders, I would reccomend using a 2x6 placed accross the sliders. You could also put the base in the cockpit if you have a very tall ladder.
2. 4-5- 3 or 4 to 1 block and tackles with a good 40 feet of stong line. I used my mainsheet and boom vang for a couple of these.
3. A couple 30 foot lines to suspend the ladder, the jib sheets worked well for me.
4. Lots of shorter lines for securing the base of the ladder, spreaders and the base of the mast.
Procedure:
1. Prepare the base of the mast, I secured 2 block and tackles on the port and stbd. side of the base of the mast. This will allow you to swing the base out in a controlled manner. I secured mine from the jib track. Try to get the block in tackles directly in line port & stbd along the centerline of the mast. This will prevent mast from kicking out uncontrollably.
2. Set up the ladder. Secure your two suspension lines to the top rung of the ladder. prepare the area where the base pads will be. You may need to use a 2x6 for the base and should use some padding such as old carpet or padding to prevent legs from scratching hull. The suspension point should be directly above the spreaders. If the ladder is too tall it will not have a good angle. About 15-20 degrees is best. When you feel you have a good position, The base of the ladder needs to be very securely tied down. Use 2 lines rigged fore and aft on each side of the ladder. make sure they are good, tight, and strong. this will prevent the ladder from swinging as mast is lowered. Next the top suspension lines will be secured. I rigged mine to the aftermost cleats. Tighten them until the top rung suspension point is just a bit aft of the spreaders. When the ladder takes the weight of the mast the stretch should put the rung directly above the spreaders.
3. Set up a block and tackle from the top rung of the ladder to the spreaders. I reccomend the use of a safety line and harness when working aloft. The ladder you have just set up is a convenient conveyance. I reccomend using a 4:1 tackle here to give good control. Make your tie point from both spreaders at the center of the mast. Likewise from ladder.
4. Last I reccomed a block and tackle rigged to the mainsheet for added control.
Check, double, and triple check all your rigging for security.
Put a person on the suspension tackle and the mast base tackles.
Tighten up the suspension tackle to take the weight of the mast on the ladder.
Now you can begin to loosen all the standing rigging. As you loosen your tunbuckles, keep adding tension to the hoist. The mast should begin to raise straight up. It need to raise up straight because there is a steel tube for the wiring that goes up about 6 inches into the mast that will bind if the mast raises or lowers at an angle. (This was my main complication with the shorter ladder.)
You will also have to pay out the mast base tackles slowly as the mast rises.
When you feel you have control of the mast from the main hoist and the base tackles, you can detach all the turnbuckles. Make sure the base tackles are very secure and strong.
Keep raising the mast until you clear the tube, pull out the mast wiring.
Now you may SLOWLY start paying out the base tackles to swing the base out in a controlled manner. At the same time the main hoist can be SLOWLY lowered. Keep proceeding in this manner carefully until the mast is laying horizontally in a nice secure spot. This is where a few extra helplers to guide the mast down help out alot. Be very carful when the mast starts to tip horizontally in can get a little unwieldy if you are not careful.

Well, sorry description was not really brief, but there it is. I will try to add some descriptive drawings.
Stepping should be a reverse, we'll see! Good luck and be VERY safety concious. This can be very dangerous if you are not careful. If you are not comfortable with rigging at all I would NOT use this method.

Also pics to come of restoration soon,
Tim

Here's another example

http://www.members.aol.com/rhdeurer/mod-r3.htm

Since I installed a Ballenger mast hinge, I've had the mast up and down twice. I used the boom as a gin pole. The process filled me with great anxiety. I didn't think the mast had enough lateral stability. In other words, it could start tipping off to one side or the other.

This time I decided to build an A-frame along the lines of the link above.

I used a larger hinge. You need to line up the holes for the 1/2" by 10" bolt with the A-frame open, since the angle changes if the A-frame is open or closed.

At the base of each leg I installed an eye bolt and lashed it to the middle chainplates.

I overlapped the 2 X 4s on each leg about 7 inches instead of three. I think it should overlap more or maybe they make a metal sleeve that could be used.

First the mast is moved forward and the mast hinge connected. Then the A-frame is laid on top.

Only two lines are used. One is shackled to the A-frame bolt and raises the A-frame up.

The other line has a noose that goes under the spreader brackets. That line goes through a block at the top of the A-frame and brings up the mast.

The guy on the ground is supposed to be keeping an eye on the furler so it doesn't bend too much or otherwise get damaged.

Both lines are led to blocks at the center/stern of the boat and then to the winches.

No pictures of the mast actually going up. The cameraman may have been taking cover.

Once the mast is up, the backstay, furler and shrouds are connected

By easing the mast line, the A-frame is swung back down to the deck.

The noose around the mast is jiggled open with a boat hook and I'm done.

I'm not entirely happy with the whole arrangement. I had originally wanted to keep the A-frame only about two feet behind the mast and haul both the A-frame and mast up together. This would keep the mast centered. But, I was concerned that the joint where the 2X4s overlap wouldn't take that kind of strain.

I may come up with another version and incorporate a multi-part purchase.

Still a nerve-wracking production

I labelled all of the standing rigging in a clockwise manner----that is the forestay(s) were 1&2,then the uppers and lowers were all labelled before removal this way they were all able to go back into the original places at the end,as they may not all be the same proportional length.

CommanderPete,

This is the year I attempt to unstep my own mast. The Boat Hauler says he can take Vakalla with the mast lashed on deck. I have seen several dimensions for the A-Frame legs. What length 2x4's did you use for each leg? Also it looks like you doubled the 2x4's at the peak. Did you need the extra clearance there? My plan was to lash one of my snatch blocks up there around a strap hinge. I am planning on an 8-12 in overlap on each leg. If I lay it out right, I can leave one bolt in and fold the legs up for transportation and storage.

Curious minds want to know. I would appreciate any comments

Let me think about that.

First, I have a question. Do Boat Haulers usually transport the boat with the mast on top? I think I've seen some with brackets on the side of the rig to hold the mast.

I'd hate to see the boat bouncing down the road a 60 mph with the mast held on top by one of my contraptions.

FWIW, up here (and short distances at least), mine have only ever been transported with the mast lashed to the top or to an owner's made attachment... Ariel 414's setup

CommanderPete,

I am in the fortunate position of being less than 3 miles from haul out to my yard. And the roads are all local, so it would be difficult if not interesting, to have them do 60 mph. The trailer rig does have brackets that they can fit to carry the mast on the side. But the hauler takes my boat out with the trailer. It separates into 2 parts, and the aft part has a small set of wheels so it goes down the ramp and then is pulled back together with a cable and winch. When they get the boat, they don't want to be responsible for. or take the the time (I think) to handle the mast. So the answer is yes, they will transport the boat relatively short distances with the mast lashed on deck.

Mike,

I like that mast cradle. What is it attached to on the coach roof? And does it raise the mast above the pulpit? Can you take some more pictures?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John

What is it attached to on the coach roof? And does it raise the mast above the pulpit? Can you take some more pictures?

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Weeeeeell..... it's through bolted into the cabin. And as you may know, I'm doing a recore. :)

I'd suggest at least sealing the holes with expoxy if you do take this approach - which isn't all that bad really. It makes a nice sturdy support. There is another attachment on the bow pulpit and one in the aft cockpit. There are some more pictures in my gallery: Ariel #414

Mike,

I see, although I'll bet that is not the reason for the recore. I have been thinking of building something that will drop between the Hatch sliders, but not as elegant as your crutch, and not through bolted. I am used to having the mast off the boat. The first few years I had the boat, it was stored with the mast on deck, and the brown from the canvas came off on the mast and I had a hard time getting into the boat. I have a made a set of horses for the mast but taking it on and off the boat would be a pain.


My deck is in fair shape, I think, except that the gelcoat is alligatored all over the place. I may have to invest in a grinder and learn to apply gelgoat (or paint)

But I got a sail in today and we had a nice steady breezed for most of the afternoon. So the world is ok

John, you're right,it's not the reason for the recore - there are a bunch of them. :) But unsealed holes throughout the cabintop contributed plenty of moisture to the side decks.

Sorry to hijack the thread.

Back to mast stepping - the Triton Association has loads of good stuff on their site: http://tritonclass.org/mir/

Here is a slightly different take on the A-frame hoist:

http://www.alberg30.org/maintenance/...ast/index.html

Good link. I like the idea of using pipe, if you can find the materials.

John, I used 10 foot 2X4s. I cut about 9 inches off the top ones to double it up there. Not sure exactly the purpose of that. I just copied what the other guy did.

If you're running a line to a winch, make sure it has a good lead from below so you don't get a riding turn.

I saved these pictures of the mast stands from an Ariel that was for sale.

The wife and I dropped ours by ourselves (we do most everything by ourselves 4 different state moves on our own) anyhow in the water we used the day sailor hoist, ran up the mast with a rope loop under the spreaders. It was just a wee bit top heavy but nothing that wasn't manageable, she ran the hoist, I handled the base of the mast. Would have been easier had I realized the base of the mast was just keyed in . . I tried taking out the screws in the base of the mast which of course were froze, out come the drill, removed the stays and WHAT i didn't need to do that. Oh well.