Heavy Weather

Shamrock V.

Some great sailing action in this movie clip. Wet & Wild

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe...Croughedit.wmv

And stay away from Tankers

The Ocean doesn't like them

Enough ugly tankers

I'd like to retrieve this thread and ask if anyone knows (personally or otherwise) of offshore storm tactics in the Ariel. In the last few months, I've read Heavy Weather Sailing (Coles), How to Sail Around the World (Roth), EVERYTHING by the Pardeys, and re-digested the appendices in all of Bernard Moitessier's writings. I am now the world's greatest theoretical bluewater storm tactician. ;)

Still, in outfitting for offshore, I wonder if the Ariel, with it's heavy displacement and long keel wouldn't behave much like the yachts of old (and the Pardey's two boats) with a parachute sea anchor? It seems like a safe, cheap and proven way to go.

While the Jordan series drogue has much to recommend it (including much scientific research), I question its use ONLY because of the Ariel's small size. While it may unfailingly hold you stern-to, I'm not sure I want 30-foot breakers in a 7-foot cockpit.

Also, I recall earlier in this thread someone mentioning dropping the jib completely and hunkering down under reefed main. Will the Ariel heave to with no headsail? Or should one use a spitfire?

Food for thought appreciated!

Jeremy

My experience is you don't want anything up forward in maximum, or near maximum weather - no storm jib - no spitfire.

A double reef main will take you through anything on the Great Lakes (although that does not mean you are in for a pleasant ride). But without the double reef main, the pitching and rolling become untenable. With the double reef, you can luff to your heart's content and take almost anything. Your boat is under control heading somewhat upwind at a speed that you want.

The key as for the amount and location of the sail is when you lose rudder control. With ANY headsail in a blow, the Ariel bow will be pulled downwind regardless of what direction you would like to stear. That means the double reef will fill and off you go - downwind - out of control. Worse, with only a foresail, there is nothing to head you upwind - you are hosed!

Stick with a reduced main (and perhaps a motor to give some headway, since a double reef may not provide sufficient drive - at least on the Great Lakes with their short wave crest and the unusually steep waves.)

The other alternative is to avoid severe weather entirely. That is my latest approach. But your enemies in heavy weather are a) either to get going downwind so fast that the bow gets tripped under the bow wave, or b) to have no sail and the pitch and roll become so bad that you can't take it physically.

This is good to know. Thank you Theis!

One should take into account that fresh water storm waves
are a little lighter than salt water. ;)

Thanks Theis!

I learned how to sail on the Albemarle Sound in N. Carolina, another notorious body of fresh water: 120 miles wide and 8 feet deep. When those lovely Hatteras Lows blow through, talk about short,steep waves. Oy veh.

Along these heavy-weather lines, does anyone know of someone rigging a solent stay on an Ariel?

J.

You must have never fell in or got capsized, because the Albemarle is quite salty, as is the Currituck and the Pamilico and all the other Carolina sounds. The Atlantic goes pouring through Oregon Inlet , Hatteras Inlet, Ocracoke Inlet, etc. several times a day. The tide runs up past Plymouth, Edenton or Hertford. Even the Roanoke River that feeds the Albemarle from the west is brackish a good ways up toward Murfreesboro .
Where on the Albemarle were you ?
Some of my ancestors met the Roanoke Colonists when they arrived, so you could say I have a wee bit of local knowledge!

One thing I did forget to mention. On my storm jib (the original Pearson design), I do have 50% reef points - so that I can bring it down to the size of a spitfire, but very close to the deck. I have never reefed the jib (other than for practice).

Where this might be useful is where there are continuous high winds of known velocity, the boat has been stabilized, and more drive is desired. I would not use it with an approaching storm because I wouldn't have any clue what I was in for and do not want to be over powered. However, after a front passes and I am faced with gale force winds, I might put the reefed storm jib up with a reefed main to get a bit extra drive. But I have never done that, so this is just conjecture. Better to stay out of that stuff - if you have a choice.

Ok Mike, I'll accept "brackish," and it can get pretty salty especially during a drought year. Still, for all of its faults, sailing on water with no tidal current is a mighty nice (provided you don't sail IN the inlets which is suicide anyway). I was actually on the Outer Banks; just off Kill Devil Hills on Colington Island. Nice little harbour with deep-water canals where everyone kept his boat in the backyard. Sure saves on those marina fees!

Theis, the info on the jib is great. When crossing oceans, it's not a matter of "if" you hit heavy weather, but "when." So I'm gathering all the information I can. Looking through the archives, I have to admit the construction of the hull-deck joint was a shock, but then, they HAVE lasted for 40+ years thus far. I'll be very eager to see if any modifications have been made to the Ariel I'm going to look at tomorrow.

Cheers!

I concur with your comments about crossing oceans. But at least you have an inkling about what the weather will be and where it is coming from. On the Great Lakes, no one has an idea. For example, all week this week the forecasts are 40% chance of storms/t-storms, etc. That is about as close as you can come to NOAA not having a clue about what to expect (50%).

Coupled with an inherently incompetent and arrogant organization (National Weather Service in Romeoville, Illinois), the weather service becomes dangerous. The best one is that they curtail all regular broadcasts when there is severe weather in the area. With the exception of a very small area where there might be severe weather, it doesn't give anyone outside the small area any idea of what can be expected for the next couple hours. That is, definitionally, a dumb idea. Hopefully the clowns that devised that will subcomb to Darwinian theorems.

Then, too, their marine forecast recommendation in severe weather is to stay tuned to the local commercial radio/TV stations. When they give warnings, they will relate the marine warnings to county lines and roads ("north of rt. 22", for example). My charts do not show roads nor do they show county lines, unbeknowest to the National Weather Service. When there is a blast coming through, the warnings are to get off the water immediately and they blast that into your ear for a couple hours - as if a sailboat had a choice. And, unbeknowst to these ignoramouses, the most dangerous place to be at the advent of a storm is at the harbor entrance. So, since we have to sail as they did in the mid 1800s, we need to be prepared for anything on these little ponds - including being out for 24 hours or more before going into a port that is safe (a ship port with a turning basin).

So, the best thing out here is to read the clouds, and expect the worse. That way you won't be disappointed - but it does curtail the sailing a bit more than we would like.

Theis,

I agree, NOAA has a hard time prediciting the marine weather on the Great Lakes. Here on N. Lake Huron, the NOAA station out of the Gaylord area has recruited mariners as weather spotters. We have attended their weather classes for two years now. Very imformative. The guy who taught the mariner weather is a meteroligist who is also a Great Lakes sailor. He was very knowledgable. With the advent of tecnology these days, the mariner spotters can call in on their cell phones or relay a message throught the CG via the marine radio. So now at least we are getting weather warnings as they are happening coming usually from your area (the west). Gives us sailors over here a little more time to be prepared. The one thing that I hear from the meterologists in this area, is that between the water and the high/low land elevations, it really plays havoc with the weather. They say there is a waiting list to come to this area to do forecasting. I've lived in MI all of my life and the saying here is if you don't like the weather, wait ten minutes and it will change. :rolleyes: Also, the sailing season is just three months of bad ice fishing!

Sheesh, didn't know there was so much info here!
Spent a few hrs. last night looking at posts from 2002, and getting caught up. Don't know how i missed all this!! Thanks for the good heavy weather info.
I'd like to see more on sail choices/wind speeds. From what i gather, the full main should work up to about 20 knots? That might be pushing it for me. How about 15 for the first reef? I have two sets of reef points. As far as jibs, when do ya'll go down from the 150? About the same time? When it gets to howling in the 25+ range, we get pretty rough on the Columbia, which for me is more difficult than the wind. There's usually about 3 seconds between the 3-4' swells, which can stop us pretty dead head on. So it's a challange. Lately it's been blowing quite a bit, gusts in the 40+ range. I look at the wind website when we get back to see just what we experienced that day. Interesting.

I started out saturday with the small jib, (90-100%), and we were considering going up to the 150, when things picked up again. Glad we stayed small. I figure we can always put up more after getting out there if we want. Better to be conservative with my small crew. Took an experienced racer out that day, so we played around with the boat and sails some. I was actually hoping the wind would pick up a bit more, but it stayed in the 20knot range most of the day. I feel better now about taking her out in more wind, thanks, in part, to Theis and Ed's experiences related here. I know she'll take more than i want. ;)

Liz:
Good hearing from you again. I'll be up in your home port this summer - unless the weather cools my heels.

Your comments are interesting. A couple years ago, in the early morning while docked at North Manitou, I delayed my departure because of a curling cloud to the west. The NOAA forecasts were for a delightful day. It was only after all hell broke loose - and that includes darkness - that NOAA reported that "Doppler radar has spotted severe storms..." approaching the area. I could only think "Who needs Doppler radar for that. Why not look up at the sky for a more advanced technology?

So it is interesting that with all the satellites, Doppler radar, a seemingly unlimited budget, NOAA can not accomplish what seasoned spotters can do a couple hours beforehand, and, to make matters worse for mariners, has to rely on the commercial radio/tv stations to report local weather to mariners. The message to us that are out there - use common sense, and learn to read clouds and weather patterns - and then recognize that you could be wrong.

One other thing: The Canadians have it right. Their marine forecasts are informative telling mariners what is happening, where it is happening and why, unlike the NOAA blather which tend to be simply conclusionary alarms having little value other than to frighten.

Willie:
The guys in the Bay should be experts on relating wind and sail, but I'll lend my voice and be interested in what others opine. And I don't have an anerometer, so these are gut feels. Main and 150/170% genoa to about 12 mph. Main and 100% genoa or no main and the 150/170% from 12-20 mph. Main and storm (70%) 15 - 25 mph. Single reef main - storm 20 - 30 mph. Double reef main and storm 25 - 35. Over 35 mph, double reef main only.

For guys on the Bay I suspect those estimates that will seem like child's play. There will likely be a lot of variation in the opinions, and to each his own and the extent to which the skipper wants to bend the boat over. It also makes a difference whether the boat is in a race or cruising and whether the lead bars are in the keel. I find the boat goes best at about a 20 degree heel. Baring the really viscious weather (50 - 90 mph), the boat will take almost any reasonable blend of sails. The worst that I can foresee happening is that you will have a knockdown, and then you know you need to shorten sail.

Also, if you have too much sail, the fisherman's reef (luffing the main at the luff) can depower the boat and allow you to get things under control. That is also a good omen that it is time to shorten sail.

I'll be interested in what others have to say.