more bilge pump stuff.....
Had an experience with another boat today that made this thread very timely.
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Originally Posted by
ebb
.....Good connections. Use Ancor adhesive lined heat shrink crimp connectors. Have another piece of shrink wrap on the wire and after the above has cooled shrink that one over it all.
One advantage of the 'shallow bilge' on #226 is that by placing both pumps under the sink, they are both in the deepest part of the bilge, and close enough to the electrical panel to run the leads directly off of the pumps and the switch for the Rule, to a dedicated terminal block. I like to remove the cover off of a crimp connector, and crimp the bare terminal directly on to the wire. I then solder the crimped part of the connection, and heat shrink over the soldered end. This seals the end of the wire and the end of the crimp where the ends of the wires would normally be exposed is sealed with solder. I wired my old MG this way, and never had another electrical problem... no small feat for an MG :D
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Set the system up for auto with manual overide. Wire bilge pumps directly to battery so that when you hit the battery selector switch when leaving the boat no matter what it says on the switch the boat is still protected.
I don't have a battery selector switch, but have the 750GPH pump on a selector switch where I can pump it manually or set it to automatic. (standard DPDT switch, with rule cover plate).
The 2000GPH pump is hardwired through the mercury switch. It does not share the same fuse as the other pump.
THe need for redundant wiring was made apparent just this afternoon. An Alberg 30 that is in my marina, that I watch of an out of town friend was noticed to be sitting low in the stern......
... she had had her floor boards floating once before when... the 'solid state' switch had failed. I had pumped her out and rigged a temporary spare float switch. When the owner came down, I recommended he consider a second pump, mounted higher then the other.
He mounted a rule 1500, on it's own float switch slightly higer then the smaller pump.
I was surprised today to look below and find the floor boards floating again... :confused:
I checked the power, it was on. I checked the battery status, it was good..... I then reached for the power cable for the lower pump. When I pulled on it to raise the pump, the pump started to run. It turns out he had connected both pumps through the same power wire, and there was a bad connection through the terminal that connected it to the battery.
Fixing the connection brought both pumps to life.
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Check out Snake River Electronics' "Bilge Buddy Pump Control" that senses water level in bilge without floats and can be set so rapid pump cycling can't occur.
I do not believe that the rapid cycling is as much of a problem in practice on our boats as it may be where longer runs of hose are necessary.
The Rule switches, as I would expect most, are balanced so that they have a 'tipping point' where the water has to rise to a given height (say 2") before they turn on, but don't turn off until the water is below some much lower level (like 1/2 or 3/4"). I have read where some see the water that is contained in the hose flowing back into the bilge when the power is turned off and cycling the pump back on. The quart or two held in the hoses are not enough to come anywhere near raining the water high enough to 'tip' the floats back on.
As for solid state switches.... my experiences with electronics are that if it can fail, it will..... I have personally seen two of these 'better mouse traps' that have failed.
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......No manual pump can keep up with a 1" hole located two feet below the waterline. Nor can you depend on the largest electric Rule to keep up with a gusher like that! Have access to all parts of the hull. Carry a sailcloth hole-diaper as well.
Agree, have my tapered plugs, quick set underwater epoxy, and rubber tarp patch all where I can get at em... :D
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sometimes wonder if I should chime in as I don't want to appear as a know-it-all or a constant loud-mouth....
I appreciate it ebb. Your opinions are well reasoned and insightful... I hope anyone gets a tenth as much from my ramblings as I have from yours. :)
Electric Bilge Pump Mout position
My Whale pump failed and I was faced with draining the bilge so I now own a 800 GPH pump. It and one of my 12V 25A supplies did a great job. (I keep trying to tell my wife there a few advantages to being a radio amateur)
So the question arises: How and where to mount the electric pump in my Commander? Do I just place as far down as I can through the first undercockpit access hatch. It appears as though that it where the pickup for the Whale is located. Or do I insert as far as I can aft through the aft hatch in the cabin? Then I can find an easier way to run the electrical.
I am on the hard. I hope others are enjoying the fresh breezes we are having here in New England.
WA1JG for the curious
Bill Shields - President of Trident Rubber Inc - replys
Dear Mr Borregaard,
First I wish to apologise for the delay in responding to your email of 16 Dec.2010.
This was forwarded to me while I was out of the country, but I didn't see it till this past Wednesday.
We appreciate your choice of Trident Marine XHD Bilge & Livewell Hose (#147-1180) for use in one or both applications on your sailboat.
I trust that you be be comforted to know that this and our other PVC hoses contain no "DEHP, BBP, DIDP, DaDP" or any other dirivatives or phltalates that are listed or known (domestically and internationally) to cause toxicity in humans or the environment.
Therefore, there is no reason or requirement to place warning labels on these hoses.
In regards to your concerns, I respectfully refer you to the web site **
www.phthalates.com
for further information on this subject. I found it very informative.
Please accept my assurance that the quality and safety of our products are our highest priority, and are the base upon which we have built our business and reputation.
Like many other materials used in hoses (rubber comes to mind easily), new PVC hoses typically have a distinct plastic odor which does not indicate toxicity.
The odor generally disapates relatively quickly in use.
This hose is very widely used throughout the boat building, repair yard, and consumer markets, and this is the first odor complaint that we have received in our 25 years in business.
While I believe this hose was the better choice for your application, if you and/or your crew find the odor to be unduly offensive, you may return it to Trident (alog with proof of purchase).
We will replace it with the cuffed polyethylene bilge hose. at no charge.
Best Regards and Happy New Year,
Bill Shields - President
Trident Rubber Inc.
585 Plum Run Road
Canonsburg, PA15317
!-800-414-2628
[** "The Phthalates Information Centre Europe is an initiative of the European Council for Plasticisers and Intermediates (ECPI)"
It looks to me like Bill Shields' "very informative" reading material is generated straight out of the plastics industry. So, as usual, it's not WHAT the words say but WHO is saying them.
AND so often, what is left out - what is not said.]
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flipping on a simple search of the web:
www.ecocycle.org
"Dangers of PVC (#3) Plastics, March 18, 2005
According to the Center for Health, Environment, and Justice PVC production fuses vinyl chloride molecules with toxic metals such as lead and cadmium, which are added as plasticizers and stabilizers.
Because of the chemical properties of chlorine, the by products of PVC production tend to be far more toxic, more persistent in the environment, and more likely to build up in the food supply
and the bodies of people
than otherwise similar chemicals that do not contain chlorine.
PVC is the only major plastic that contains chlorine, so it is unique in the hazards it cretaes.
In use, the toxic substances added to soften or stabilize the plastic do not bind to the toy, bottle or other product and are therefore prone to leaching. When your child or pet chews on a plastic PVC toy, for example, they can be ingesting these chemicals. One such chemical, DEHP, has been designated a "probable carcinogen" by the EPA."
I looked, maybe not persistantly, for an MSDS on the Trident PVC hose.
Perhaps it isn't required by the EPA. And to be told that in 25 years nobody has complained of the odor must show how COMPLACENT the proletariat has become - how NUMB we have become to the toxins in our lives.
That there are no 'warning labels' on PVC hose
may be more due to corporate ethics and an ineffectual and politicized EPA
than a "typical distinct plastic odor" (read common unregulated chemicals) that we accept as mildly annoying perfume. Or even find sexy as the smell of a new car interior.
I doubt that warning labels appear on any of the thousands of products that have been chewed by kids or pets. Nevertheless, the odor emitting from Trident PVC hose is a gas, and while this VOC, Volatile Organ Compound, will reduce after a while - it still is installed in a semi-closed air space. Bill Shields belittles the smell by comparing it with rubber smells.
However, most synthetic rubber is NOT made with chlorine and heavy metals.
We take the president of Trident at his word.
I don't believe there is an evironmentally friendly, or NO VOC PVC, product made by any corporation in this country.*
ALL PVC PRODUCTS ARE NOT RECYCLABLE. So far as I know - tell me it isn't so!
Every teething ring and plastic bag and credit card and plastic pipe and bilge hose made of PVC goes to the landfill where it stays for 10,000 years
and the chemicals continue to leach out and comtaminate our aquifers. Mega tons of plastic fragments contaminate gyres in the Pacific, Atlantic and Indian Oceans.
:mad:
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*Metaphorically: FISH ROTS FROM THE HEAD DOWN