Yessss. A most gratifying reply and a useful exposition on the subject at hand. Thank you, sir.
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Yessss. A most gratifying reply and a useful exposition on the subject at hand. Thank you, sir.
Does anyone think that the commander would perform differnt than the ariel in the ocean? Because of the larger cockpit would it fill with water? Or would putting the lower board in place and the cockpit drains help?
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If you have the original Commander cockpit sans bridgedeck you would want to fix the lower board in place and diminish the cockpit volume perhaps with a water can locker like James Baldwin added to his Triton (see it at www.atomvoyages.com ).
Zoltan's Commander was the later cockpit style with the bridgedeck as is C280.
Much ado has been made about that cockpit volume, but I can only say that at an Alberg rendezvous a few years ago we jammed 26 persons and two meduim sized dogs into/onto the cockpit and Lazarette as well as the side decks outboard the cockpit. It was only the last 1 or 2 bodies that started some water lapping up the cockpit drains.
That's a lot more weight than a cockpit full of water!
Best,
Dave
Here are a couple of my thoughts. As background, my Ariel is equipped pretty much as the standard model.
As a general rule, I shoot for a maximum of three days between ports. The main limitation is ice for the beer and food - and I like fresh food. Thisis independent of how many people I have on board.
A second limitation is on the battery(s), particularly with an autohelm. The solar cells would help, possibly, unless you had a multiple day storm. As for running the engine to recharge them, see my comments about fuel.
I trail my dinghy. It costs me about a half mile an hour under motor power. The big issue is to keep the dinghy covered so that it doesn't fill with water. I don't keep mine covered because the cover blows off in the wind, but I am concerned with what would happen in a super blow and how I empty it (bilge pump is the current method). Cross off any idea of carrying a dinghy on deck. You need the deck space and the freedom of movement.
When I am cruising, I do carry a Winslow six man liferaft on the cabin top just aft of the mast. I also carry a sea anchor (not a drogue). A drogue is a bad idea and my experience is that it is dangerous. It causes the boat to sail on its hull.
The other big limitation is fuel. I carry 18 gallons with a 2 cycle (about 100 miles with a calm sea). Two cans are on each side of the motor, and one is below the steps. On the ocean, this may not be a problem and you may not need the motor because you have all the time in the world - unless your supplies are running low. Also, the winds, I assume, are more consistent than on the Great Lakes. A four cycle would double this range, I am told.
The stability of the Ariel increases dramatically as it gets weighted down. You can see this when the two lead weights are removed from the bilge. The boat becomes relatively tender. When the boot top is under water (loaded with supplies), the boat hardly rocks as you go around the deck.
One other item comes to mind. On open water, hypothermia is a real problem. You need a adequate cabin space you can get into to let you warm up when you are cold.
Hope this helps.
Listening here with great interest on the weight issue.
Can't forget Zoltan's discription of his Commander off an African coast with the cockpit completely filled with jerry cans full of gas and the outboard wide open.
And wasn't it Zoltan also who wrote, do not worry about green water in the cockpit, because in a storm as much sloshes out as sloshes in?
This is of course in total contrast to some posts in the past from skippers who remove a sail bag or coil of line to balance the boat.
A huge amount of weight in materials alone is going into the 338 remodel. It's gratifying to hear what the A/Cs can do with a lot extra weight above the designed waterline.
It's like calories, if you spread a pat of butter over two pieces of bread you've halved the fat. So naturally when adding weight to our boats it's ok if you add it everywhere, more or less equally. Two babes on the bow, two babes on the stern, two on the cabin, two below. like that?
Extra stores (stowes?), water and fuel for distance sailing, along with all the gear. is a big concern for me and 338. More, please!
I will read this thread again
Is it just a case of mind over matter??
Cruising with the Commander is possible??
Iceman :eek:
Blue Penquin is hull #264
Is there some karma happening here :eek:
Iceman
Punch SEARCH for
ZOLTAN, The perils of (just kidding)
Ventura to the Med. in a Commander called, The Way..
Has to be a book by now.
Hey Ebb
I punched Search and keep returning to this thread
What up?
Ice
First/ It's amazing how many people don't understand how important ballast, and where it is placed in a boat, both sail and power. Research ballast in boats and you wont' have as many questions!!! Honest. I know this through my own experience when I first got started in England on the Thames River and went from non tidal to real tides, swells, and ships wakes which are perticularily fun when going against a spring tide. A properly ballasted boat makes all the difference. Of course this is only one aspect of your question. Know your boat inside out and learn if you haven't how to prep and use fiberglass and other products that can be found cheep normaly used for other aplications such as plumbers. In case you are not use your brain and research. The internet is great for sailors/boaters of all types. Don't be sold on products that are designed advertising/package wise for wanna be mariners. The Pearson Ariel is a boat that was designed for some serious water. Unfortunatly it doesn't matter what you go out in. There is as they an inherent risk of voyaging on to open bodies of water. The best boats are the ones that can't sink even if broken up owing to sealable bulkheads, foam, air bags, and what have you. I think what maybe most important to to you is picking your time of year for sailing/ cruising. Depending on where you are on the globe some months are better then others. There is a lot ot consider. If your going alone it's your life. If you are taking other people it is their lives too. Remember a boat is never just a boat and the more you know (it may seem coplicated at first) the safer you are, and also those you take with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
this is what I have been told time and time again,that crossing
the ocean is for big ships and airliners.there is just no way a small boat can do it,get those ludicrous thoughts out of your mind,besides,dont you know the world is flat????what if you fall off the edge of the earth into the unkown zone???? and how are you going to deal with seamonsters like godzilla and the like???now read my post on sailing to hawaii.
Regarding the weight added for stability above, does anyone know what the weight that Alberg designed into the Ariel is? That is, how many pounds of people, food, fuel, ground tackle, blah, blah, blah makes an Ariel float on her proper lines? I know that it's PII is 529, but what weight must you achieve before it starts to sink below her lines?
I too am planning on some long-distance cruising (possibly aboard a lovely Ariel). If anyone knows the stability curve, that would be great as well. I imagine that fully loaded for bluewater cruising, the angle of vanishing stability would increase substantially and make it even more stiff, but I'm no naval architect.
Lastly, as a matter of pure opinion, I think that the Ariel's long-distance reputation simply falls under the shadow of it's big brother: The Triton. But for a couple or, as in my case, single-handing, who needs the extra two feet and maintenance costs?
:-)
fully load your boat with as many people as you think it can safely hold,then take it out and see how it performs.my ariel had lead pigs in the bilge that I removed before sailing off.I once had about 8 or 9 people evenly distributed in the boat and it was kind of sluggish.at the beginning of both my voyages on the ariel and triton Iwas fully loaded with supplies,rations,water,fuel,and there was always water comming up into the sink like a small geyser.but as I continued on these provisions were used,and the boat became lighter.the last 200 miles on the return on the triton from Oahu to Monterey that boat was so much lighter it really danced its way to the coast.motor boats usually have a placard stating how much people and weight,Ive never seen one on any sailboat :)
I couldn't agree more with ElBeethoven that the ariel IS offshore capable ! As to rating on sailboats.....my beneteau was CE offshore rated for 6 people...coastal 8.Thats the only time I've seen "ratings" on a sailboat was with the " CE " certification